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Creeping Fascism in United States.

Nice Squirrel

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Just to keep a watch. I do not believe we are currently living under a fascist regime,

Some central tenets of fascism are:

  1. A strong state with a powerful executive that does not require democratic consultation before acting.
    We see this in the sloppy attempts at executive orders, but currently the checks are in place on the executive branch. The loss of consensus politics is definitely a sign of the fascist creep.

  2. Hatred of Left movements based upon class antagonism.
    Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter <-- such groups are hated. Iowa just passed a law outlawing collective bargaining by public employees.

  3. Formation of mass party based on paramilitary lines.
    Not a problem at all in the United States. The hero worship of the police and military is part of the conservative package.

  4. Admiration of power and a culture of violence
    This can be argued for those seen as heroes to conservatives. Including the second amendment freaks and George Zimmerman fans.

  5. Authoritarian programs which require conformity, submission, and discipline
    None have come about so far.

  6. The cultivation of irrationality--the impulse is more important than rational thought.
    Alternative facts. Made up terror attacks.

  7. Nostalgia for the legendary past.
    The 1950's America, one that never existed except on TV.​

  8. Adversion to intellectuals, especially those who question traditional ways.
    Iowa is currently considering a bill to require all state college and university employment applicants to disclose party affiliation to be checked with voter rolls to prevent liberals from being hired. Milo and crew complain about free speech (right wing hate speech) being suppressed on campuses and Jerry Falwell is heading a commission to "reform" higher education and remove burdens of "accreditation" and the promotion of critical thinking.

  9. An idealized pastoral life v. the amoral city.
    "Real America" v. "Urban America", not just Sarah Palin, but conservatives often talk about how are cities are somehow noting but dystopian nightmares of crime, drugs, and multiculturalism.

  10. Machismo- women relegated to traditional roles.
    The refusal to recognize the wage gap. The controlling of womens bodies. The resistance to Title IX.

  11. Support from lower middle class that was left out of an economic recovery
    This has been a hallmark of all fascist regimes. Not so much the poor, but those on the margin of becoming poor. (Or are poor and don't know it.) You can see this in the voting blocks for Trump.

  12. Scapegoat enemies.
    Muslims, Mexicans, Blacks, gays, and Jews. (See yesterday's bomb threats. Kansas bill to legalize discrimination against gays.)

  13. Corporatism.
    I am a little leery to place corporatism here because corporations and cartels are often very flexible with the kinds of regimes they support and corporations alone are not indicative of fascism. However, there is a corporate element in supporting the regime. I see this through corporate-state partnership. Some ways this is developing are in anti-lawsuit bills like in Missouri where individuals will no longer to be able to bring lawsuits against businesses. This will shield businesses from lawsuits and gives the attorney general power to decide which complaints are allowed. (Like in Florida with Trump University, a well placed donation will quash all potential litigation.)


So what are your thoughts? Are we in danger of slipping off the cliff?
 

untermensche

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One thing that always has to be noted.

Capitalism is perfectly compatible with fascism.

It is perfectly compatible with Chinese totalitarianism.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

Capitalism will not slow the move to fascism in the least. As it exists it is a catalyst to fascism.
 

PyramidHead

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Americans have a web of beliefs about their country, to borrow a concept from W.V.O Quine. The closer to the center of the web a belief is, the more they will resist giving it up. Whether or not we are susceptible to fascism depends upon the location of basic liberal values in this web. For many people, traditional social roles and nationalism are close to the center, but I wonder if democracy and the rule of law aren't also near the center.

If you can't have a fascist state without a dictator, and as long as we assume our complete system of governance is not going to be radically altered, then any ground we lose can be gained back in the next election cycle. The voting method isn't perfect and obviously there are measures a fascist contingent can take to make their rise to power less democratic. But I very much doubt gerrymandering and voter suppression would be enough to elect a dictator in this country.

On the other hand, if fascist power rests in the hands of a wealthy elite, the illusion of democracy can be maintained as we slide into de facto fascism. This is the more likely endgame, and without an educated public it has a real chance of happening.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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We are living in a time where Grover Norquist and Steve Bannon have enormous amounts of power over the Government, yet don't belong within 100 miles of a capitol building. Now with the likes of Jared Kuschner and Stephan Miller, I see a government that is being run by people that are flat out clueless.

Forget fascism, we are being governed by ignorant megalomaniacs.
 

Nice Squirrel

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One thing that always has to be noted.

Capitalism is perfectly compatible with fascism.

Having a complete union of government and economy is perfectly compatible with a complete separation of government and economy. You've heard it here folks.

But who does that union serve?

I think we all know the answer to this.
 

Jason Harvestdancer

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Having a complete union of government and economy is perfectly compatible with a complete separation of government and economy. You've heard it here folks.

But who does that union serve?

I think we all know the answer to this.

Government. In every government-business partnership, government is always the dominant partner.
 

Nice Squirrel

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But who does that union serve?

I think we all know the answer to this.

Government. In every government-business partnership, government is always the dominant partner.

I would say whoever the elite is. Sometimes, like in Russia it is primarily, the ruling party. Other times, it's the businesses that pay the government officials.
 

Elixir

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Government. In every government-business partnership, government is always the dominant partner.

I would say whoever the elite is. Sometimes, like in Russia it is primarily, the ruling party. Other times, it's the businesses that pay the government officials.

Cheato is well on the way to fixing that. Soon you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference between billionaires in business and billionaires in gummint, because they'll all be the same people.
 

untermensche

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One thing that always has to be noted.

Capitalism is perfectly compatible with fascism.

Having a complete union of government and economy is perfectly compatible with a complete separation of government and economy. You've heard it here folks.

That is some fantasy definition of capitalism.

Some system that has never existed.

I'm talking about actually existing capitalism.
 

Jason Harvestdancer

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Government. In every government-business partnership, government is always the dominant partner.

I would say whoever the elite is. Sometimes, like in Russia it is primarily, the ruling party. Other times, it's the businesses that pay the government officials.

They pay the government officials for one very important reason - it is the government that has the guns.
 

Nice Squirrel

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I would say whoever the elite is. Sometimes, like in Russia it is primarily, the ruling party. Other times, it's the businesses that pay the government officials.

They pay the government officials for one very important reason - it is the government that has the guns.

Whoever is in control has the guns. Sometimes it is not the government.
 

coloradoatheist

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One thing that always has to be noted.

Capitalism is perfectly compatible with fascism.

It is perfectly compatible with Chinese totalitarianism.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

Capitalism will not slow the move to fascism in the least. As it exists it is a catalyst to fascism.


It depends. Does the dictator allow for private business and private property or does he believe in the government running business?
 

Valjean

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“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
― Benito Mussolini
 

scombrid

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But who does that union serve?

I think we all know the answer to this.

Government. In every government-business partnership, government is always the dominant partner.

Businesses call the shots in several partnerships with the stata of Florida. Any time there is a "public-private" partnership in Florida there is some corporation looting the treasury.

Outside the US there are large companies that walk all over the governments of small countries with the help of compliant strongman dictators; who's strength is derived from the resources provided by the company to whom he sells his people and natural resources.
 

LordKiran

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“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
― Benito Mussolini

This lone quote would probably have more impact if you accompanied it with some kind of argument.
 

bilby

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5. Authoritarian programs which require conformity, submission, and discipline
None have come about so far.
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans may render the military salute in the manner provided for persons in uniform.

Nope. None at all. Certainly not any that are so pervasive that the people involved barely notice them any more. Nothing to see here. Move along.
 

RavenSky

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The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans may render the military salute in the manner provided for persons in uniform.

Nope. None at all. Certainly not any that are so pervasive that the people involved barely notice them any more. Nothing to see here. Move along.

The pledge was exactly my first thought, too. For now, however, Cheetum hasn't done anything to rescind a person's right to refrain from the pledge
 

untermensche

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One thing that always has to be noted.

Capitalism is perfectly compatible with fascism.

It is perfectly compatible with Chinese totalitarianism.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

Capitalism will not slow the move to fascism in the least. As it exists it is a catalyst to fascism.

It depends. Does the dictator allow for private business and private property or does he believe in the government running business?

Whether it is compatible does not depend.

Whether it is used depends. But if it's used before the fall to fascism it is used after. No need to change anything, except the rights of people within the system. They still behave the same, go to their work which is a petty dictatorship just the same. Openly complain less and maybe some day get murdered but the economic system stays in place. No need to change it.

Capitalism does not slow the transition to fascism in the least. It is not a moral system. It is a system that has no morality beyond, if you break the law, even if it kills people, make sure it's cost effective.
 
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