Cruise Travel and COVID

[Copernicus]

Cruise lines have been cancelling their Bermuda stops because of all the red tape. I like Bermuda. When we were there in December on a cruise out of New York, we bought a tour around the island that was really very nice. I'm not happy with touring on RCL's megaships, however. We caught our current bout of COVID on the Quantum. I prefer to travel on smaller ships.

We'll be taking a cruise at the end of October on the Celebrity Constellation from Rome to Tampa, FL. That ship only has a possible passenger load of 2,000, but we expect it not to be too full.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They have cruises out of Baltimore that go to Bermuda on RCL that would avoid having to fly. It goes to the side of the island I like least, and doesn't stay long, (I like the St Georges area best) but it would be a cruise. We have also hesitantly began eating out on weekends again. I don't think the latest shot is available in our area yet, but it should be soon.

Better hurry. Fiona (the forecasted major hurricane, not the adolescent hippopotamus at the Cincinnati zoo) looks to be bearing down on a near direct hit path towards it.

 

[Copernicus]

Cruise ships right now are a very bad idea if you don't want to get Covid. The proximity and tight quarters are just perfect for spread.

History should tell us how big disease vectors cruise ships are.

That's true, but my position is that air travel is an even bigger vector.

But how often do we see massive disease outbreaks on planes. Sure, there was that one on Airplane! but that was food borne illness.

Not relevant to my point. We aren't likely to see massive outbreaks on short cruises either, because not that many people will manifest symptoms on the ship. We will see them on longer cruises in which the ship is turned away from a port or quarantined simply because that would catch the eye of the news media. You have to have a way of detecting the event before you can notice it. Everyone can get infected on a particular flight and then disperse to different locations, where they continue to transmit the disease. Unless there is some kind of contact testing going on, nobody is going to discover it.

The major mistake made by governments in the initial panic over COVID was to turn cruise ships into giant petri dish prisons that inevitably had to be opened up in a local port for a super spreader event. Passengers that were completely uninfected when the outbreaks occurred were trapped and exposed to the virus under quarantine. After creating a huge population of infected passengers, they ended up flying home, thus spreading the disease through air transport. The problem could have been better managed by offloading passengers to special facilities, testing them, and quarantining the infected ones in a more isolated location on land, where they could have access to real health care when needed.

Except, that isn't really what happened. The disease spread into the US mainly from Europe, not cruise ships. Which is why NYC exploded with cases and 1/5 of the city had had Covid-19, before it was cool.

Your point does not address anything I said. I made no claims about the origin of COVID in the US or how it entered the US. I was talking about all of the news about COVID on cruise ships that we saw early on in the pandemic. I'm not disputing any facts about what happened in NYC or the rest of the US.

 

[lostone]

They have cruises out of Baltimore that go to Bermuda on RCL that would avoid having to fly. It goes to the side of the island I like least, and doesn't stay long, (I like the St Georges area best) but it would be a cruise. We have also hesitantly began eating out on weekends again. I don't think the latest shot is available in our area yet, but it should be soon.

Better hurry. Fiona (the forecasted major hurricane, not the adolescent hippopotamus at the Cincinnati zoo) looks to be bearing down on a near direct hit path towards it.

I'm thinking of next Spring, rather than this Fall; during Spring, hurricanes are not an issue

 

[bilby]

Cruise ships right now are a very bad idea if you don't want to get Covid. The proximity and tight quarters are just perfect for spread.

History should tell us how big disease vectors cruise ships are.

That's true, but my position is that air travel is an even bigger vector.

But how often do we see massive disease outbreaks on planes. Sure, there was that one on Airplane! but that was food borne illness.

Not relevant to my point. We aren't likely to see massive outbreaks on short cruises either, because not that many people will manifest symptoms on the ship. We will see them on longer cruises in which the ship is turned away from a port or quarantined simply because that would catch the eye of the news media. You have to have a way of detecting the event before you can notice it. Everyone can get infected on a particular flight and then disperse to different locations, where they continue to transmit the disease. Unless there is some kind of contact testing going on, nobody is going to discover it.

The major mistake made by governments in the initial panic over COVID was to turn cruise ships into giant petri dish prisons that inevitably had to be opened up in a local port for a super spreader event. Passengers that were completely uninfected when the outbreaks occurred were trapped and exposed to the virus under quarantine. After creating a huge population of infected passengers, they ended up flying home, thus spreading the disease through air transport. The problem could have been better managed by offloading passengers to special facilities, testing them, and quarantining the infected ones in a more isolated location on land, where they could have access to real health care when needed.

Except, that isn't really what happened. The disease spread into the US mainly from Europe, not cruise ships. Which is why NYC exploded with cases and 1/5 of the city had had Covid-19, before it was cool.

Your point does not address anything I said. I made no claims about the origin of COVID in the US or how it entered the US. I was talking about all of the news about COVID on cruise ships that we saw early on in the pandemic. I'm not disputing any facts about what happened in NYC or the rest of the US.

The big outbreak in Sydney was largely due to the Ruby Princess; The failure to handle the quarantining of that ship was a major bone of contention between the Commonwealth and NSW governments, both of whom sought to pin the blame on the other, as well as on the cruise operators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Princess

 

[Copernicus]

The big outbreak in Sydney was largely due to the Ruby Princess; The failure to handle the quarantining of that ship was a major bone of contention between the Commonwealth and NSW governments, both of whom sought to pin the blame on the other, as well as on the cruise operators.

That one was responsible for a huge outbreak, but 90% of COVID cases in Australia came from other sources. So, even without the superspreader cruise ship event, Australia was in for it anyway. The Ruby Princess outbreak could have been handled in a way that would have reduced transmission, but neither cruise ships nor governments really knew how to handle COVID outbreaks back then. Nowadays, there are better protocols in place, especially on cruise ships. Well, let me amend that. There were better protocols in place before the government decide to lift so many of the restrictions so quickly. Now we are seeing a worse problem developing, because more people tend to take shorter cruises. Therefore, a lot of people leave cruise ships with infections that are just starting to manifest symptoms, and, as I've pointed out, a large number of passengers head straight for the airports. The megaships should not be carrying full passenger loads yet, and masks should still be mandatory in public areas.

 

[Copernicus]

Here is an update on what I've learned about what happens after you get COVID.

My wife and I are now 10 days past the time when we first manifested symptoms, and we are obviously recovering. I have almost no symptoms, and she has minor ones. However, we tested positive on a PCR test yesterday. Worse yet, we learned that we may continue to test positive (especially on sensitive PCR tests) for weeks or months afterwards, even though we will be considered recovered from COVID. That's a problem, because all the cruise lines require negative tests two days before boarding. We have scheduled (and paid for) a trip from Rome to Tampa, FL, on the Celebrity Constellation. It starts on October 21st, but we feared flying to Rome, failing the COVID test, and being denied boarding.

Here is what the CDC says: After 5 days, you can cease isolation if you don't have a fever and have only mild symptoms. After 10 days, you are no longer considered contagious and no longer have to wear a mask in public. You are officially "recovered" from COVID and can go back to work or travel. This is true even if you still have some mild symptoms. You are considered to have natural antibodies that will strongly protect against reinfection for roughly 90 days. During that period, they won't retest you for COVID, nor do they want you to get a vaccine booster. However, to officially qualify to travel, go back to work, school, etc., you need to get a certificate of recovery from a qualified health care provider. The COVID Certification plus a valid copy of a positive COVID test in the past 11-180 days will be accepted by most countries in the world, airlines, cruise companies, etc., as sufficient proof that you are COVID-free in lieu of having to get a negative COVID test. The only exception we know of is Bermuda, which still requires negative tests, regardless of past recovery.

So we are now free to board our cruise without the negative test that everyone else is required to produce. We verified this information with Celebrity Cruises. That's the one good thing for us that comes out of this illness.

 

[Copernicus]

Looking at several social media threads in which cruises are ending, every single ship now seems to be experiencing outbreaks of COVID. The ships now tend to be filled to capacity, but almost nobody wears masks anymore. Every ship is still short-staffed, because cruise lines have not been able to hire back so many of the people they lost. Anyway, now is not the time to travel on cruises, if you have never had COVID or are unvaccinated. The CDC no longer requires vaccinations in all passengers for US destinations, but many foreign ports still do.

 

[Jarhyn]

Looking at several social media threads in which cruises are ending, every single ship now seems to be experiencing outbreaks of COVID. The ships now tend to be filled to capacity, but almost nobody wears masks anymore. Every ship is still short-staffed, because cruise lines have not been able to hire back so many of the people they lost. Anyway, now is not the time to travel on cruises, if you have never had COVID or are unvaccinated. The CDC no longer requires vaccinations in all passengers for US destinations, but many foreign ports still do.

I mean, to be fair, I'm pretty sure that Willy Wonka tried exactly as hard as he should have to keep Augustus Gloop from going down the tubes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looking at several social media threads in which cruises are ending, every single ship now seems to be experiencing outbreaks of COVID. The ships now tend to be filled to capacity, but almost nobody wears masks anymore. Every ship is still short-staffed, because cruise lines have not been able to hire back so many of the people they lost. Anyway, now is not the time to travel on cruises, if you have never had COVID or are unvaccinated. The CDC no longer requires vaccinations in all passengers for US destinations, but many foreign ports still do.

Crowds without masks means a high chance of infection, it doesn't matter the purpose of the crowd.

 

[Copernicus]

Looking at several social media threads in which cruises are ending, every single ship now seems to be experiencing outbreaks of COVID. The ships now tend to be filled to capacity, but almost nobody wears masks anymore. Every ship is still short-staffed, because cruise lines have not been able to hire back so many of the people they lost. Anyway, now is not the time to travel on cruises, if you have never had COVID or are unvaccinated. The CDC no longer requires vaccinations in all passengers for US destinations, but many foreign ports still do.

Crowds without masks means a high chance of infection, it doesn't matter the purpose of the crowd.

Exactly. It is just common sense, so I don't know why the CDC cannot continue to recommend wearing masks, especially on cruise ships. Instead, they seem to have retreated to a position of throwing up their hands and giving in to public pressure. Myself, I'm not recommending that everyone stop cruising. However, I would recommend against even flying in an airplane without at least being fully vaccinated and wearing a mask during the trip. I like the fact that we've managed to avoid getting even a mild cold since 2020 until our last cruise, when all of the masks came off and social distancing was completely forgotten. What were they thinking? Everyone knows that people above the age of 65 are at most serious risk for these viruses, and the average age of passengers on many ships is over 65.