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Decline of the Western World

steve_bank said:
Adding for Barbos, nothing was handed to the USA.
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Actually it was. You were handed the whole damn continent, which meant that there was no danger of invasion. Then you were handed WW2 after which you came a lone economic winner, from there on you had been world hegemon until now.
Now you are desperately trying to prevent China and other countries from changing Status Quo. You want the rest of the world be run by you or suck. This is literally your M.O. And it's all ending now. You can't defeat China economically and you can't defeat them militarily. I am not defending chinese system, I am just describing current reality, which is very different from what it was 40 years ago.
 
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Which continent is that?

Not Canada, Central and South America. Not Asia.

The Brits, French and even our enemy the Germans were free. They rebuilt and are free democratizes. The EU is a trading block to compete with the US and now China.

Europe goes its own way.

In contrast the Russians dropped the 'Iron Curtain', coined by Churchill. Control of client states by force.

China seized Tibet, imposed CCP conformity on Hong Kong, and wants to do the same to Taiwan.

Russia imposing ideology on Ukraine.

Your knowledge of Russian, Chinese, American, and world history are equally shallow.

What IMO is hindering China is its conflicting ideology. China wants to and does benefit from the global economy and stable international law, but at the same time works against that order.

They want the benefits of international rules and norms, but does not want to play be the norms and rules.

In China foreign business is not allowed to own property, yet China complains when we move to limit Chinese ownership of farm land. They complain restrictions on Tick Tock violate free speech yet the CCP routinely places limits on and censors platforms in China.

China needs a paradigm shift that is impossible with its racist Chinese ideology. Cultural and asocial and political diversity as it is in the west. Open upen to diversity and immigration.
 
The problem with Barbos and those who arr raised in forced conformist systems like Russia and China is understanding the meaning and implications of diversity of thought. The ability for cultural and poitical introspection and change.

Religious, economic, political, and social thought.
 
steve_bank said:
The problem with Barbos and those who arr raised in forced conformist systems like Russia and China is understanding the meaning and implications of diversity of thought. The ability for cultural and poitical introspection and change.

Religious, economic, political, and social thought.
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I don't think Pentagon and State Department think that diversity of thought is helping them with China.
And no, for millionth's time. I prefer US system to both Chinese and Russian, overall anyway. So stop your imbecilic insults.
 
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barbos said:
steve_bank said:
The problem with Barbos and those who arr raised in forced conformist systems like Russia and China is understanding the meaning and implications of diversity of thought. The ability for cultural and poitical introspection and change.

Religious, economic, political, and social thought.
Click to expand...
I don't think Pentagon and State Department think that diversity of thought is helping them with China.
And no, for millionth's time. I prefer US system to both Chinese and Russian, overall anyway. So stop your imbecilic insults.
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Actually yes. The militray has become ethnically and racially diverse.

You can look at the late General Schwarzkopf and General Petraeus as examples of US militray statesmen knowledgeable in history and cultures.

There are always dissenting voices in the state department, we hear them periodically.

You prefer America? Why not France or UK?

You say you prefer America yet vigorously defend Putin, his war, and propaganda You tell us how great Russia is. You defend China and say how bad the USA is.

Sorry, no sale. I would not take naythmng yiusay at face value.
 
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steve_bank said:
You say you prefer America yet vigorously defend Putin, his war, and propaganda You tell us how great Russia is.
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Current regime in Washington does not represent America. And there is a real difference between what you do inside the country and outside.
 
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
The problem with Barbos and those who arr raised in forced conformist systems like Russia and China is understanding the meaning and implications of diversity of thought. The ability for cultural and poitical introspection and change.

Religious, economic, political, and social thought.
Click to expand...
I don't think Pentagon and State Department think that diversity of thought is helping them with China.
And no, for millionth's time. I prefer US system to both Chinese and Russian, overall anyway. So stop your imbecilic insults.
Click to expand...
Actually yes. The militray has become ethnically and racially diverse.
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You jumped from diversity of thought to ethnic diversity, are you an AI script?
steve_bank said:
You can look at the late General Schwarzkopf and General Petraeus as examples of US militray statesmen knowledgeable in history and cultures.
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What are smoking?
steve_bank said:
There are always dissenting voices in the state department, we hear them periodically.
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No, you don't. All you hear is Russia is bad, Putin is bad, RussiaGate.
 
Right now Russia is very bad, and always has been in our view. Certainly my view.

I supported the efforts to oppose Soviet communism. During the Cold War I worked on weapons systems designed for use in a war against Russia .I felt good about that and still do. I felt good when the Soviet Union collapsed.

Communist Russia and Russia today represents everything I oppose in principles.

China represents what I oppose socially and politically. The CCP arbitrarily declared open maritime waters to be part of China, which noonday else recognizes.

The diference between China and Russia is we have large scale accrual mixing between USA and China. Large scale tourism. Disney World is in China. Panda bears over here. Traveling Chines shows.

I live in China Town in Seattle. Amazon is giving $250,000 to support an upcoming China Town cultural celebration. There will be thousands of people, music, and a lot of food.

China is an adversary but with some exceptions there is no cultural over here. WE have has NBA palavers from China.

China needs to take one more step and drop the antgnism and act as global ciitzens.
 
steve_bank said:
We were not the 'sole winners' of WWII. France, UK,Canada, Australia and the rest.
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That depends on how you define "winner".

There's no real question that Germany and Japan lost (eventually); But identifying who won is not so simple. The USA and USSR won; Both became superpowers, with the latter gaining huge areas of territory in Eastern Europe.

But it's dubious to suggest that the UK and France won; They entered the war with the goal of restoring Polish sovereignty, and completely failed to achieve that goal; Poland was divided up between the Third Reich and the USSR, and the defeat of the former handed their share to the latter, and neither the Poles themselves, nor the Poms and the French, could do much about it.

The British Empire collapsed post-War; Even the most devoted of the dominions moved further away from the UK, and towards the newly superpowerful USA.

Arguably, the European Theatre saw three wars in rapid succesion; Germany (secure behind a non-aggression pact with the USSR) fought England and France for territorial domination in a war in which the USA was steadfastly neutral. The war lasted from 1939 until Germany won it, in June of 1940, with the fall of France and the withdrawal of British forces from mainland Europe.

There was then an uneasy peace in the European Theatre, until the launch of a new war between Germany and the USSR a year later.

The German-Soviet war was to last until May of 1945, when the USSR finally defeated Germany.

A third war was launched in July of 1943, when the British Empire and the USA, now allies, invaded Italy, and then a year later German occupied France; They cooperated with the USSR against the common enemy, but other than the defeat of Germany, they shared few goals with Stalin.

We tend to group these three European wars into a single entity, largely because the belligerents were engaged in hostilities in other regions throughout - Notably in North Africa, and in Naval warfare in the Atlantic, Arctic, and Mediterranean, as well as being allied to the belligerents in the 1936-1945 Pacific and South East Asian war between Japanese Empire and China, the various colonial administrations and posessions of the European nations, and (after the Japanese expansion of the war through her attack on Pearl Harbor at the end of 1941) the USA.

By the time the USA entered the war in the Pacific, it had been raging for five years; And by the time the first US servicemen arrived in mainland Europe*, the western part of the continent had been technically at war for four years, and "at peace" under Axis domination for three (with no in-theatre combat between ground forces in the west, though the air and sea wars of course continued throughout).

The simple narrative of the war starting with the USA being hit by a cowardly surprise attack, and then defeating Germany and Japan with a little help from some of her allies, is strictly for Hollywood.

I am tempted to say that nobody would take such a simplistic analysis seriously; But then I recall that most Americans can't find Poland on a clearly labelled map of Eastern Europe, and wonder if I am being far too optimistic.







*Obviously excluding PoWs and downed airmen who were hors de combat
 
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steve_bank said:
China built itself on western investmnnt, manufacturing expertise, and technolgy it did nothng to contrinute to. It blantantly stole technology.
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Unlike the USA, who would never dream of blatantly stealing the atomic bomb technology from her supposed allies in the UK, under the pretext of moving it out of range of the Luftwaffe.
 
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