Democrats Continue War on Poor People: Talks of Banning Dollar Stores

[TV and credit cards]

A synopsis of the book Salt, Sugar, Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4059590/

Understand all the other roadblocks there might be to eating healthy while poor. First off, there’s the money aspect. If you are poor, really poor, like one meal a day poor, that one meal is going to be the most filling thing you can afford. I was there for awhile. That one meal was an extra value meal from McD. If you’re a single parent, you likely work not one but two crappy jobs making meal preparation out of the question. You may not have a vehicle so going anywhere out of the area for healthy food would be very time consuming and you’re not likely going to pay for a babysitter so the kid(s) are coming with you. You may not even have a functioning stove or refrigerator at home. You may just have a hotplate. Perhaps what meal prep that does happen would likely occur on a Sunday; one big meal to last through the week. There may be other impediments, a constantly changing work schedule. A cold-hearted government that restricts or removes free school breakfast/lunch so kids now have a more difficult time focusing on study because they are thinking about how hungry they are. Smart idea, huh? Poorly educated kids perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Are poor families eating dinner at McDonalds every night? I don't believe they are, as the math would demonstrate.

Isn't the problem that people are eating boxed and canned foods high in carbs and fats, because it is cheaper than chicken and veggies? Two boxes of pasta roni and a pack of hot dogs is much cheaper than chicken and broccoli.

$300 a month just for dinner isn't possible on a low budget.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You may just have a hotplate.

*bleep* me! I had that problem while dorming in college during a summer internship, no stove! I had a two burner hot plate, but that limited my options a lot. Well, that and having only a mini fridge, so I couldn't even get one or two frozen things in bulk!

Perhaps what meal prep that does happen would likely occur on a Sunday; one big meal to last through the week. There may be other impediments, a constantly changing work schedule.

Cooking is possible, but you still need to learn how to do it. Seitan (just protein) can be cooked for relatively cheap and cooked several ways. Of course, you need access to gluten (not sold at dollar stores) and an hour or two for the low effort simmering on the stove. Sauces can be made, with simple ingredients like soy, honey, juice, corn starch, but again... this stuff needs to be taught in school in Home Ec. Cooking is simple. Like making seitan is simple, but I didn't know that for years! Of course, there is also likely stress related eating, where you just don't even want to make anything but something that is gratifying.

A cold-hearted government that restricts or removes free school breakfast/lunch so kids now have a more difficult time focusing on study because they are thinking about how hungry they are. Smart idea, huh? Poorly educated kids perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

Thankfully Akron has breakfast and lunch for all students. Heck, I'd vote yes in a second for a Levy that paid for just lunch and breakfast. The stories of lunch debt are sickening!

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Are poor families eating dinner at McDonalds every night?

The original question was regarding the costs for a family of five buying a Whole Foods dinner consisting of a roasted chicken and broccoli vs a comparable McDs dinner (Big Mac combo meals).

Isn't the problem that people are eating boxed and canned foods high in carbs and fats, because it is cheaper than chicken and veggies? Two boxes of pasta roni and a pack of hot dogs is much cheaper than chicken and broccoli.

Well, let’s, once again, do the math for a family of five. Target sells a 4.8 oz box of Pasta Roni for 99 cents. The box claims that’s two servings, so we’ll go with that. You’d need to buy three boxes then to feed five people for let’s say $3.20 (tax).

Costco hotdogs cost about $6/package of twelve, or about 52 cents per dog with tax? You figure at least two per parent and oldest child, with say one each per younger child? Let’s say 8 total per dinner, which would be around $4.16

So we’re somewhere around $7.25-$7.50 total for five people eating hotdogs and pasta roni for dinner, or about $222 per month. But with that meal, you have no leftovers to eat the next day for lunch.

A 5 lb chicken (offering plenty of leftover meat the next day for lunch) and broccoli dinner would cost a total of $12, but you’d get two meals per person out of it, bringing the price per meal down to $6 total for five people, or $180/month for a SAVINGS of $42/month with the healthier meal.

Plus whatever tens of thousands would be saved in medical bills over your entire family’s lifetime by simply feeding them proper, healthy food.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

$6 for a pack of hot dogs?! Try $3. $5 for two boxes and pack of dogs. It takes all of 15 to 20 minutes to prepare. And simply put, even that is too expensive.

And fuck Whole Foods for closing down our better local market.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

$6 for a pack of hot dogs?!

Tell it to Costco.

$5 for two boxes and pack of dogs.

Ok. So that’s $5 that gets your family one dinner of absolutely no nutrition dogshit that will cause dozens of health problems for your entire family for their entire lives vs. $6 that gets your family very healthy protein and vegetable fiber twice daily.

And fuck Whole Foods for closing down our better local market.

Ironic in a thread that’s about Dollar Stores closing down better local markets.

ETA: Roasting a 3-5 lb chicken in the oven is extremely simple. Smear some butter on the skin. Heat the oven to 350. Put the chicken in and basically leave it for an hour/hour and a half. The only additional tool needed is a meat thermometer and the knowledge of where to stick it to test for proper done-ness. Salt and pepper to taste after. You don’t even need to baste or salt/pepper as it cooks if you don’t want to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying that it is cheaper and easier to buy foods with less benefits to them, and those foods will be bought because there aren't many other options, regardless where you buy the food. And even then, those foods are too expensive. Food just costs a good deal of money and poor people can't afford it. Heck, I'm not poor and we have to budget the grocery bill.

And using Whole Foods as an example or where to buy reasonably priced foods is ridiculous!

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying that it is cheaper and easier to buy foods with less benefits to them, and those foods will be bought because there aren't many other options, regardless where you buy the food. And even then, those foods are too expensive. Food just costs a good deal of money and poor people can't afford it. Heck, I'm not poor and we have to budget the grocery bill.

And using Whole Foods as an example or where to buy reasonably priced foods is ridiculous!

I don’t think he was arguing that Whole Foods was the best place to buy reasonably priced foods. Regardless, MY point (and I think his too) was that buying and preparing healthy food is comparable to buying and preparing shit food as I just demonstrated—$5/family meal for dogshit vs. $6/family meal for healthy protein and veg twice daily—PLUS all the medical costs you’ll save over a lifetime, so take the better option.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But it's not. Why is the cliche for college students "eating ramen"? That brings down costs to a fraction of chicken.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

But it's not.

But it is, as, again I just showed even using YOUR numbers.

Why is the cliche for college students "eating ramen"?

Because they don’t know any better? And that’s not a family of five.

That brings down costs to a fraction of chicken.

Again, wrong, as, again, I just proved, but let’s take it down to Joe College eating a 25 cent package of top ramen.

That package is 3 oz, so about $1.34/pound. As I showed above, raw chicken (good stuff, not the shit) can be bought for $1.99/lb. That’s a difference of only 65 cents.

If you can afford college, you can afford 65 extra cents for 3 ounces of healthy chicken protein over 3 ounces of salt and shit carbohydrates. I know, I WAS that guy surviving--I thought--on dogshit ramen until a friend of mine (working his way through college as a chef) did exactly what I just did here and showed how you break it down and factor it all properly.

Though he--and no one itt--have yet to break down the REAL costs in regard to someone's health over a lifetime, because if we did, it would bury the scales against top ramen.

And yes, I'm aware--as I was then--how tight such budgets have to be and that it means giving up on other things and for some and for some and for some, but obviously the point isn't about someone who is "one meal a day poor" as they can't afford even the Dollar Store.

In the higher-end neighborhood of Long Island City (one stop from NYC) where I live, I can buy a pound of fresh carrots for $1.49. If I ate nothing more than that--at just 14 cents more per pound than fucking top ramen--I would be a thousand times healthier and better off than if I instead at that shit.

 

[Elixir]

1 can of pasta is 1 can too much. Read the label. it's loaded with sugar. "Low-effort" food (I love that term) is for lazy people, not poor people.
You can spend in Whole Foods less than it costs at McDonalds to buy premade food to feed your entire family. The real problem is that it takes over an hour to prepare that food... and poor people are either lazy, ignorant on the importance of a healthy diet or what a healthy diet even looks like, or working 3 jobs and have no time to prepare fresh food.

I used to watch a show called my 300-pound life. It's about obese people. One thing I see in common with all of them on the show is that
a) they are lower middle class / poor
b) they think "lower fat doritos" are "health food".

America's sugar addiction is more insidious than the Crack and Opiod crisesses combined.

Made worse by the fact that a high carbohydrate/high sugar diet is the absolute worst possible diet. Guess what are the primary ingredients of the cheapest meals?

And it's PRECISELY because there are no options in most towns. It's ALL fast food joints. Even the "sit down" restaurants (Bob Evans, Cracker Barrell, Olive Garden) are primarily nothing more than carbohydrate/sugar mills.

Well would you look at this... Koy and I share similar facts on a topic.
America's food industry is pretty messed up...

I think few people disagree, even among those who are reduced to subsisting on the dregs of the food chain (dollar store products).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

a whole chicken is $4 / lb. at whole foods. That is higher than elsewhere by a dollar per pound. a 3 lb chicken will feed a family of 5 easily, with leftovers if the children aren't obese yet. lets use a middle-ground green... broccoli. $2 / lb. 1/2 lb is enough for 1 meal for the whole family.
So, fresh organic chicken with broccoli for a family of 5 costs about $13 per meal.
a Big Mac costs about $4. 5 big macs for that family would cost $20 (no french fries or drink - add that in and its closer to $30)
you save $7 for that meal and get more food that is more nutritious with no added sugars.

Are you saying chicken sells for $3/lb (it's not something we buy often enough for me to know the price by heart)? Costco still sells their fresh-cooked chickens for $5 for a 3 pound bird. That's $1.66/lb.

 

[Derec]

Are you saying chicken sells for $3/lb (it's not something we buy often enough for me to know the price by heart)? Costco still sells their fresh-cooked chickens for $5 for a 3 pound bird. That's $1.66/lb.

Of course, Costcos require a membership (worth it if you are shopping for a family) and probably a car. Many of those shopping regularly at dollar stores in their neighborhoods do not have a car.

 

[Derec]

But it's not. Why is the cliche for college students "eating ramen"? That brings down costs to a fraction of chicken.

It is cheap food, and apparently not loaded with sugar. Although it is high in carbs. I would say not terrible, but not good as main thing to subsist on.

 

[Toni]

But it's not. Why is the cliche for college students "eating ramen"? That brings down costs to a fraction of chicken.

It is cheap food, and apparently not loaded with sugar. Although it is high in carbs. I would say not terrible, but not good as main thing to subsist on.
View attachment 25594

Low protein, no vitamin and very high sodium content. Not healthy in the least.

 

[Derec]

Not to defend Whole Foods exclusively, but their chickens are already seasoned and cooked.

I thought we were talking about cooking meals from scratch so I assumed raw chicken, not one of the rotisserie chickens. I am sure WF sells raw chickens as well.

Rice/potatoes are pure carbohydrates, which is what also makes people obese,

Carbs are not the enemy in themselves - people need carbs in a balanced diet. You are not a keto evangelist or some such by any chance?

but, fine, throw in some healthier brown rice (at around 36 cents per half cup side serving, or $1.80 total for a family of five) and you’re still WAY under the $30 for a comparable sized meal at McDs.

I actually like brown and wild rice, so no quarrel from me. But potatoes are not "pure carbs" either, as they have other nutrients. They are also very tasty, so there's that.

As opposed to a shitty burger and fries?

Better than unseasoned chicken and broccoli.
Something like this is still an inexpensive dinner for a family, but much more tasty.

And I can't stand any cooked Brassica cultivars, so I eat them raw as salad or fermented as sauerkraut (pretty easy to do yourself, actually).

Again, I was not doubting that it's generally cheaper to cook for a family vs. eating at McD. But I thought WF was more expensive than that. Are you sure about those prices?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

According to older articles like this one, Whole Foods cooked rotisserie chicken is around $4 per pound (at least here in NY), but apparently when Amazon took over, they cut the price by something like 30%. for some unknown reason, I can't check the price online at Whole Foods.com.

Regardless, the same chicken (Perdue Harvestland whole chicken) can evidently be bought (cooked) for $1.99 per pound at a Key Food (also here in NY).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you saying chicken sells for $3/lb (it's not something we buy often enough for me to know the price by heart)? Costco still sells their fresh-cooked chickens for $5 for a 3 pound bird. That's $1.66/lb.

Of course, Costcos require a membership (worth it if you are shopping for a family) and probably a car. Many of those shopping regularly at dollar stores in their neighborhoods do not have a car.

For us the savings on glasses pays for the membership. We don't buy all that much stuff there but it's worth it anyway.

 

[Gun Nut]

and note how it is the only thing on the label that does not show the % daily value. Now why would that be???

My guess is because sugar (unlike carbs in general) is not needed in the diet - more complex carbohydrates can be readily broken down into monosaccharides. There is a % daily value for carbs though.

That is a generous guess... The fact is that health and nutrition experts have demanded the values be printed on labels to help people make better choices about prepared foods with added sugar, due to the child obesity crisis. Food manufacturer lobby groups have squashed it... even when Michelle Obama made this specific issue her "thing". She got bought out (or intimidated out) of it and changed her "thing" from improving the nation's food supply to telling people obesity is their own fault for not exercising enough. A lie.

 

[Gun Nut]

1 can of pasta is 1 can too much. Read the label. it's loaded with sugar. "Low-effort" food (I love that term) is for lazy people, not poor people.
You can spend in Whole Foods less than it costs at McDonalds to buy premade food to feed your entire family. The real problem is that it takes over an hour to prepare that food... and poor people are either lazy, ignorant on the importance of a healthy diet or what a healthy diet even looks like, or working 3 jobs and have no time to prepare fresh food.

I used to watch a show called my 300-pound life. It's about obese people. One thing I see in common with all of them on the show is that
a) they are lower middle class / poor
b) they think "lower fat doritos" are "health food".

America's sugar addiction is more insidious than the Crack and Opiod crisesses combined.

Start a business that sells good food that is "low effort" and that's your opportunity to beat out Jeff Bezos Whole Foods.

Besides the fact it probably won't taste quite as good, its probably a major challenge to make "low effort" food which might actually be good for you. The same chemicals they are adding for the instant preparation are also the same process that are not good for you.

But this is could be your calling for an Elon Musk opportunity to make yourself a billionaire while ALSO doing good for humanity. Figure out how to make cheap, great tasting, quick fixing, food that is perfectly nutritional.

Actually, a potential solution along these lines is in progress with a business partner / friend of mine... crowdsourcing healthy meals... think uber for food prep.
people who need extra money can prepare meals for others. People with more time on their hands and a knack for party planning can throw expensive fancy dinner parties.
most importantly - families that do not have the time to properly care for their own children by preparing healthy meals, can invite others into their home for their "dinner party", which would pay for the meal they are feeding their guests and children.

There... that's my (friend's) multi-billion dollar idea to feed the nation. not so hard, really.