Do Religious folk see Non-religious people as "the Poor?"

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Do believers in gods and different forms of woo see those of us who are without such beliefs and behaviors as somehow underprivileged and lacking? Is the real reason for belief in these behaviors and claims a fear that without them a person is lost and in need of care, direction and help? Is there the belief that we are unable to help ourselves?

I was reading an article about a city in Africa where there is real animosity toward people who ride bicycles instead of cars. The drivers see the bicycle riders as lacking in the ability to afford a car, a status symbol in this poor country, and so resent them. As an avid cyclist I have encountered this at times but it is certainly not the norm.

The city where cyclists are unwelcome

The hostile attitude of local drivers towards cyclists emanates from a deep-seated belief that cycling is for the poor. In modern Botswana, drivers have enjoyed the respect that comes with owning a car as opposed to a bicycle, which is now considered archaic.

So are atheists somehow "the poor" when it comes to religion, even subconsciously?

 

[Politesse]

I certainly don't; atheists do not strike me as being all that different from any other folks when it comes down to it. But I have certainly met more arrogant Christians who might display such a bias. I note that as a sometime theist on an atheist forum, I am very often accused of a poverty of thinking, of voluntary or involuntary captivity in an archaic mode of life.

But if you really want to meet someone who sees non-practitioners as physically and emotionally stunted, tall to a Wiccan sometime! Unlike the differences between atheism and Christianity, which are mostly philosophical, the gulf between those who aren't aware of their magical energy and those who are is seen as an almost physiological difference. Like thise trapped in the mundane world are missing an entire sense organ; a central part of their consciousness has gone dormant. This would apply to anyone who has fallen into an orthodoxy, though, not just atheists.

 

[abaddon]

Do believers in gods and different forms of woo see those of us who are without such beliefs and behaviors as somehow underprivileged and lacking? Is the real reason for belief in these behaviors and claims a fear that without them a person is lost and in need of care, direction and help? Is there the belief that we are unable to help ourselves?

Maybe they see atheists as overly optimistic or filled with hubris. Christian monotheism has a pessimistic view of the natural world. Nature's never enough from this POV... it can't explain its existence, it can't provide an objective morality that'll guide everyone, it can't redeem people who struggle to survive life or feel bad about being temporal beings.

They see a Dawkins bus with the "just enjoy life" message printed on the side and, to them, it looks like a mix of conceit and simple-mindedness. Atheists seem to think they're like know-it-all gods and the world is complete in itself and everything that's wrong in the world is easily fixed with only science and technology. Not happy with life? Well, as a skinbag of chemicals, just have a beer or take an SSRI!

We look like we totally ignore all existential questions. "Just enjoy life" looks like "throw all seriousness to the wind, and what-the-fuck-ever about the 'big questions'." That doesn't much help atheism look like it has good answers to living a meaningful life and dealing with existing in a world that's unfixable (by either rationalism or science).

 

[Learner]

Do believers in gods and different forms of woo see those of us who are without such beliefs and behaviors as somehow underprivileged and lacking? Is the real reason for belief in these behaviors and claims a fear that without them a person is lost and in need of care, direction and help? Is there the belief that we are unable to help ourselves?

The conventional - the way believers are supposed to see of the poor, is usually from the compassionate viewpoint. But you obviously mean something different here by linking the below:.

I was reading an article about a city in Africa where there is real animosity toward people who ride bicycles instead of cars. The drivers see the bicycle riders as lacking in the ability to afford a car, a status symbol in this poor country, and so resent them. As an avid cyclist I have encountered this at times but it is certainly not the norm.

The city where cyclists are unwelcome

The hostile attitude of local drivers towards cyclists emanates from a deep-seated belief that cycling is for the poor. In modern Botswana, drivers have enjoyed the respect that comes with owning a car as opposed to a bicycle, which is now considered archaic.

So are atheists somehow "the poor" when it comes to religion, even subconsciously?

By giving the analogy of the African Cyclist being looked down upon by car owners (not a religious reason) is quite the usual to systems of class for example. But having saying that, I am aware of the desciptions often said of the religious right in the US. Llike many others, I am not one of those believers you ask about, that look at the poor as YOU put it in the OP.

 

[steve_bank]

The point for us atheists in part is that yes Christians and atheists in general act for better or worse the same. Just do not presume moral superiority that you do not have..

 

[Rhea]

Do believers in gods and different forms of woo see those of us who are without such beliefs and behaviors as somehow underprivileged and lacking? Is the real reason for belief in these behaviors and claims a fear that without them a person is lost and in need of care, direction and help? Is there the belief that we are unable to help ourselves?

So are atheists somehow "the poor" when it comes to religion, even subconsciously?

I certainly hear that a lot. “Poor atheists, how can they exist with no hope and no meaning?”
They don’t seem to care that our answers indicate that we have plenty of hope and meaning, just no woo.

So, yeah I hear that quite a bit.

But if you really want to meet someone who sees non-practitioners as physically and emotionally stunted, tall to a Wiccan sometime!

Hunh. All the Wiccans I know are all, “Blessed Be... An it harm none, do as ye will.” Been to their festivals, have several who are friends, have met all their friends... none of what you say. Guess they have differences amongst ‘em.

 

[Politesse]

But if you really want to meet someone who sees non-practitioners as physically and emotionally stunted, tall to a Wiccan sometime!

Hunh. All the Wiccans I know are all, “Blessed Be... An it harm none, do as ye will.” Been to their festivals, have several who are friends, have met all their friends... none of what you say. Guess they have differences amongst ‘em.

Oh, yeah, they're super friendly. But they do think that magic is, you know, a gift.

 

[Tigers!]

There are so many ways the word 'poor' can be used.
The OP might need to be more concise as to what he means by poor.

 

[Politesse]

I just recalled this saying of Jesus himself: "When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty." From the Gospel of Thomas, the third saying.

But again that verse is about folly wherever it is found. Not about what label one wears, particularly.

 

[ideologyhunter]

(OP): Yeah, they do. I like to tell religious door-knockers upfront that I'm an atheist -- it shortens the transaction, unless they're truly, incorrigibly faith-filled. Their parting line is usually, "I'll pray for you," and, unless I know them from around town, I like to respond with, "Knock yerself out!"

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Do believers in gods and different forms of woo see those of us who are without such beliefs and behaviors as somehow underprivileged and lacking? Is the real reason for belief in these behaviors and claims a fear that without them a person is lost and in need of care, direction and help? Is there the belief that we are unable to help ourselves?

Maybe they see atheists as overly optimistic or filled with hubris. Christian monotheism has a pessimistic view of the natural world. Nature's never enough from this POV... it can't explain its existence, it can't provide an objective morality that'll guide everyone, it can't redeem people who struggle to survive life or feel bad about being temporal beings.

They see a Dawkins bus with the "just enjoy life" message printed on the side and, to them, it looks like a mix of conceit and simple-mindedness. Atheists seem to think they're like know-it-all gods and the world is complete in itself and everything that's wrong in the world is easily fixed with only science and technology. Not happy with life? Well, as a skinbag of chemicals, just have a beer or take an SSRI!

We look like we totally ignore all existential questions. "Just enjoy life" looks like "throw all seriousness to the wind, and what-the-fuck-ever about the 'big questions'." That doesn't much help atheism look like it has good answers to living a meaningful life and dealing with existing in a world that's unfixable (by either rationalism or science).

It's definitely that I think. Maybe it's like when I'm food shopping and see a person's cart full of junk food and sodas. I generally perceive that as a person who's hurting himself and likely doesn't know any better.

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't think you can generalize about how all Christians see atheists. The really narrow minded ones who have a feeling of superiority, probably do look down on us poor pitiful atheists. The absolute worst, hateful Christians seem joyful when they imagine that non believers are all going to suffer in hell for all of eternity. The more reasonable Christians get to know us and find out that we have a lot in common with them, minus the woo. And, the very liberal, sometimes agnostic ones tend to thing we're pretty cool. At least that's been my experience with that rare breed of Christian. Those are the type of Christians who are my friends.

The sad thing to me is that most of my Christian friends have very difficult lives. Some are lonely. Some are poor or unable to manage their finances well. Some are sick with chronic diseases. Maybe they need religion because it brings them some type of hope for a better future. Of course, to me it's just false hope but sometimes just having hope can help one cope better emotionally.

What's ever weirder is that one time a very conservative Christian asked me if I thought her rather agnostic mother was going to hell. This woman knew I am an atheist. I just old her that if there was a god, there was absolutely no way that this god would punish her wonderful, loving mother. Oddly enough, hearing that from me seemed to comfort her. So, you really can't generalize how Christians see atheists. They aren't all the same and neither are we.

 

[Rhea]

It's definitely that I think. Maybe it's like when I'm food shopping and see a person's cart full of junk food and sodas. I generally perceive that as a person who's hurting himself and likely doesn't know any better.

Wait, why are you saying that atheists are hurting themselves, like when you see someone with a bad diet hurting themselves?

 

[Rhea]

Coincidentally, just today I picked up a god brochure in the bathroom at work, to see if it was an offensive one or just dreck. And sure enough, plenty in there about how hopeless atheists are, how sad and lost, how self-destructive.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It's definitely that I think. Maybe it's like when I'm food shopping and see a person's cart full of junk food and sodas. I generally perceive that as a person who's hurting himself and likely doesn't know any better.

Wait, why are you saying that atheists are hurting themselves, like when you see someone with a bad diet hurting themselves?

I think some believers, certainly not all, see non-believers like I see the shopper with a cart full of junk food, namely as someone who doesn't know any better, someone to be pitied in a way. I think I'm just fine and dandy, and no doubt the shopper with the junk food sees themselves similarly. But that's where the similarity ends. To me religion is just like tasty non-nutritious fake food, so you'll never see any in my shopping cart.

 

[Politesse]

It's definitely that I think. Maybe it's like when I'm food shopping and see a person's cart full of junk food and sodas. I generally perceive that as a person who's hurting himself and likely doesn't know any better.

Wait, why are you saying that atheists are hurting themselves, like when you see someone with a bad diet hurting themselves?

I think some believers, certainly not all, see non-believers like I see the shopper with a cart full of junk food, namely as someone who doesn't know any better, someone to be pitied in a way. I think I'm just fine and dandy, and no doubt the shopper with the junk food sees themselves similarly. But that's where the similarity ends. To me religion is just like tasty non-nutritious fake food, so you'll never see any in my shopping cart.

I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's shopping carts! I'm always up for a conversation about what's on their home table, though.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think some believers, certainly not all, see non-believers like I see the shopper with a cart full of junk food, namely as someone who doesn't know any better, someone to be pitied in a way. I think I'm just fine and dandy, and no doubt the shopper with the junk food sees themselves similarly. But that's where the similarity ends. To me religion is just like tasty non-nutritious fake food, so you'll never see any in my shopping cart.

I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's shopping carts! I'm always up for a conversation about what's on their home table, though.

That's not a bad way to think about religious behaviors.

 

[Politesse]

I think some believers, certainly not all, see non-believers like I see the shopper with a cart full of junk food, namely as someone who doesn't know any better, someone to be pitied in a way. I think I'm just fine and dandy, and no doubt the shopper with the junk food sees themselves similarly. But that's where the similarity ends. To me religion is just like tasty non-nutritious fake food, so you'll never see any in my shopping cart.

I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's shopping carts! I'm always up for a conversation about what's on their home table, though.

That's not a bad way to think about religious behaviors.

It's a very Tillich way of putting it, really. He once defined faith as "the foremost object of a man's concern, trust, and fascination", and insisted moreover that it was a universal experience. We had different objects, not exeriences, of that holy fascination. Of course, crypto-pantheist that he was, he also felt that faith could not help but lead one to God, there being no other possible "object of ultimate concern" aside from the ground of all being, whatever indeed that was. So we eat at different tables, you know, and in different cuisines, but we derive the same sustenance and community from all meals, and the food come and goes from the same fields.

 

[ideologyhunter]

But thank God (or the fates, or your Aunt Hannah) that we'll never see the day when those who don't eat, say, pork, want to kill those who do eat pork.
Right?

 

[southernhybrid]

Let me add that I don't really give a fuck what Christians think of me. If they hate me because I'm an atheist, that's their burden, not mine. Plus, some of the things that conservative Christians think about atheists make me laugh and humor is a wonderful way of coping with life.