Do white lives matter?

[AthenaAwakened]

where is there a double standard? Are you being prevented from protesting what you see as an injustice? Or do you want someone else to protest for you?

The double standard is for example how the media treats shootings when the shootee is white vs. black.

How is there a double standard? Be specific.

That's how the false BLM narrative of there being "open season" or "genocide" on blacks gets started.

You think that is a BLM narrative, that it comes out of BLM? Or do you not think that it is open season on black people? And do you define OPEN SEASON and GENOCIDE literally or figuratively, is their use accurate or used as hyperbole?

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White men are evidently being shot, I suppose for be white men (?), but no one is willing to face the slings and arrows of people ... talking? Could it be that white men think the cause isn't worth ... the inconvenience?

Righteousness of a cause is determined by how many stores are looted, buildings torched and interstates blocked?

What are you talking about?

 

[RavenSky]

Derec, someone has to start the protests. If you are so outraged, go start a protest. It is that simple.

But I don't think you really give a furry rat's ass about yet another civilian killed for no reason by a cop. You just want to make it all about race and gender... as always.

Of course, you can't defend the cop this time, can you. She's a woman and the dead man is white.

 

[abaddon]

Of course, you can't defend the cop this time, can you. She's a woman and the dead man is white.

Precisely. Where is the equal treatment here? The dead guy’s a thug, he wasn’t cooperating like he should have, he probably smoked dope or had too many traffic tickets, he posed a threat so he deserved to die. You know, all the stuff we’ve heard about the slain black persons… shouldn’t it apply here too?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Get together with others of like mind, organize, plan and execute direct action, issue press releases and give interviews. Make your cause known.

When something really bothers me, I complain about it, but I also do something about it.

He's posting on a board hostile to him and neither you nor I know what else he may be doing. You say you do something about what bothers you, but we don't see any of it. All we ever see is venting on this board where most people already agree with you. You may do more, but we don't see it. What makes you think we'd see it if Derec did the same for what he cares about?

 

[Terrell]

Unless there's something to this story that the article isn't telling us, the cops shouldn't have even followed him. I didn't know that dancing near a police car, then walking away, was an offense.

 

[fast]

A female cop shot and killed and unarmed white man and is not getting indicted. But there are no riots, no wall to wall coverage on cable news stations, no angry threads posted by the likes of Athena.
Des Moines Officer Won’t Be Charged After Gunning Down Unarmed Man From Her Car
The justification for the shooting (erratic walking) appears to be much less than for Jonathan Ferrell or Michael Brown, but again, Bollinger is white so his death doesn't matter I guess.
In addition photos of cops who shot black suspects are shown everywhere be it Kerrick or Wilson etc. But there is no photo of Venessa Miller I could find anywhere. Female privilege?

The general saying, "black lives matter" is born out of many specific instances of injustices. Yes, white lives matter, but because the counterpart question "do white lives matter?" doesn't come in the wake of many likewise injustices, it evokes a sense of false comparison in some. We might see it as a double standard, but it's going to take a comparable number of specific injustices against whites. Of course, if they were comparable, the "black" wouldn't have appeared in the saying to begin with ... the saying might never have came to be.

 

[Derec]

The general saying, "black lives matter" is born out of many specific instances of injustices.

The specific case that spawned the movement was not an "injustice" - the guy attacked the cop and the shooting was justified.

Yes, white lives matter, but because the counterpart question "do white lives matter?" doesn't come in the wake of many likewise injustices, it evokes a sense of false comparison in some.

But cases like this show that whites do get killed by the police under questionable circumstances as well.

We might see it as a double standard, but it's going to take a comparable number of specific injustices against whites.

The assumption of BLM movement is that every time a cop shoots a black person it is "injustice", "murder" etc. Even when the perp is armed. For example, this is how a black newspaper from SF characterized the shooting of a carjacker who pointed his gun at the police.
Nate Wilks, 24, murdered by Oakland PD for running while Black
The truth is very different though.
Oakland: Police identify three officers who shot, killed Nate Wilks

In footage shot from an officer running behind Wilks, officers can be heard yelling "drop it, drop the gun" several times. Wilks at one point turns around and runs toward an officer with what appears to be a pistol in his left hand. All three officers fire as Wilks is about 3 feet from one of the officers. Wilks was taken to a hospital where he was pronounced dead. A preliminary autopsy report found he died of gunshot wounds to the front of his body, police said Friday.
A loaded pistol police said Wilks was carrying but did not fire was found at the scene. It was earlier reported stolen.

Of course, if they were comparable, the "black" wouldn't have appeared in the saying to begin with ... the saying might never have came to be.

The saying came in the wake of a justified shooting of a robber who attacked police. Reality doesn't have much to do with the BLM movement.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Get together with others of like mind, organize, plan and execute direct action, issue press releases and give interviews. Make your cause known.

When something really bothers me, I complain about it, but I also do something about it.

He's posting on a board hostile to him and neither you nor I know what else he may be doing.

Then he need only say. I doubt he will.

You say you do something about what bothers you, but we don't see any of it. All we ever see is venting on this board where most people already agree with you.

And? I talk to people who don't agree with me all the time. Why would I spend my down time doing the same? That would be madness. That would be trolling. That would be wrong.

You may do more, but we don't see it. What makes you think we'd see it if Derec did the same for what he cares about?

Derec, what do you do about what you care about? That's the best way to find, to ask Derec.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The specific case that spawned the movement was not an "injustice" - the guy attacked the cop and the shooting was justified.

Yes, white lives matter, but because the counterpart question "do white lives matter?" doesn't come in the wake of many likewise injustices, it evokes a sense of false comparison in some.

But cases like this show that whites do get killed by the police under questionable circumstances as well.

We might see it as a double standard, but it's going to take a comparable number of specific injustices against whites.

The assumption of BLM movement is that every time a cop shoots a black person it is "injustice", "murder" etc. Even when the perp is armed. For example, this is how a black newspaper from SF characterized the shooting of a carjacker who pointed his gun at the police.
Nate Wilks, 24, murdered by Oakland PD for running while Black
The truth is very different though.
Oakland: Police identify three officers who shot, killed Nate Wilks

In footage shot from an officer running behind Wilks, officers can be heard yelling "drop it, drop the gun" several times. Wilks at one point turns around and runs toward an officer with what appears to be a pistol in his left hand. All three officers fire as Wilks is about 3 feet from one of the officers. Wilks was taken to a hospital where he was pronounced dead. A preliminary autopsy report found he died of gunshot wounds to the front of his body, police said Friday.
A loaded pistol police said Wilks was carrying but did not fire was found at the scene. It was earlier reported stolen.

Of course, if they were comparable, the "black" wouldn't have appeared in the saying to begin with ... the saying might never have came to be.

The saying came in the wake of a justified shooting of a robber who attacked police. Reality doesn't have much to do with the BLM movement.

Derec, was this man's race a contributing factor to his being shot? Is there historical precedent for white men being shot by the police for being white men? Just who are you mad at? The media for not covering the protests that don't happen? That a woman police officer shot a male citizen and didn't get proper punishment? And why do you think that is? Because she is a woman? Or because she was the police?

 

[Derec]

Derec, was this man's race a contributing factor to his being shot?

I think most certainly not. However, same goes for the likes of Michael Brown, Nate Wilks or Andre Green.

Is there historical precedent for white men being shot by the police for being white men?

And there we go back to your thesis in your "black criminality" thread. Why should what happened 100 years ago affect how we evaluate things that are happening today? Contrary to what BLMers are claiming, Michael Brown is nothing like Emmett Till for example.

The media for not covering the protests that don't happen?

The media for focusing on race every time a black person is shot by either police or a white (or any non-black really) civilian. Not fanning the flames like that would go a long way, don't you think?

Because she is a woman? Or because she was the police?

I think being female could definitely have something to do with it - that they applied a different standard of "reasonable threat" than they would have to a male officer.

 

[Ford]

Reality doesn't have much to do with the BLM movement.

As has already been pointed out, this "movement" is in response to a very long history of police violence and racial profiling of African Americans. This history is so long and the behavior is so pervasive that the reaction when a white cop shoots a black "suspect' is completely understandable. "Black Lives Matter" is, compared to the history of police violence against blacks, a newborn baby next to an old man.

It is worth noting here that the number one movie at the box office a couple weeks ago was called "Straight Outta Compton." You probably didn't see it, but it chronicles the rise of a hip hop group called NWA. They had a song - inspired by the way the cops treated young black men in their neighborhood - called "Fuck Tha Police." That was so long ago that the son of one of the members is old enough to play his father on screen. Back when George H. W. Bush was President.

It was also around that time that Ice T came out with "Cop Killer" and Public Enemy released "911 Is A Joke."


Well this thread is a joke. A sick, twisted joke. You've taken a reaction against generations of police brutality against blacks and turned it into "oh, pity the poor white guy." You keep saying all you want is equality and for there not to be a double standard. Are you fucking kidding?

I'm willing to bet that any African American male who was pulled over for "driving while black" would wholeheartedly agree that equality and a lack of double standards would be nice. That it would be great if the cops treated them exactly the same way as white people were treated. That it would be great if the media didn't rush to call them a "thug." That it would be great if the criminal justice system in general weren't so hopelessly stacked against them. That it would be great if they didn't have to worry about their sons being shot - not by some gang bangers, but by a cop over nothing.


The reason that "Black Lives Matter" and "Fuck Tha Police" etc. resonate with the black community is because for the most part, it is true. Being black in the presence of a white police officer is more dangerous than being white. You want to turn this on it's head and claim that white people are just as at risk? Really?


Now, I admit I was joshing you a bit with the Klan stuff earlier. Not having a sense of humor, you took it seriously, but seriously now...you're doing some Klan shit with this thread. I've actually spent a little bit of time surfing a well known White Nationalist forum, have watched folks like David Duke, and read some of the affiliated Holocaust deniers. One of the things they do is to try and represent white people as the victims. To make it seem like all this "political correctness" and "social justice" is causing real harm to white folks. That minorities are ascendent, and that as they gain power in society the white "race" is marginalized and discriminated against.


As was mentioned earlier, you are in hostile territory here and no, we don't really know what you're like outside of the forum. But you're taking a position on this particular subject that is not too far off from that which might be taken by Klan types. "White Lives Matter?"

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I think most certainly not. However, same goes for the likes of Michael Brown, Nate Wilks or Andre Green.

Is there historical precedent for white men being shot by the police for being white men?

And there we go back to your thesis in your "black criminality" thread. Why should what happened 100 years ago affect how we evaluate things that are happening today?

Doesn't answer the question, but the response is par the course.

Contrary to what BLMers are claiming, Michael Brown is nothing like Emmett Till for example.

The media for not covering the protests that don't happen?

The media for focusing on race every time a black person is shot by either police or a white (or any non-black really) civilian.

No, they don't. Black people get shot by the police on a regular basis and the news of the shooting never makes it out of the police blotter in the paper, or at best a few seconds on the 11 o'clock news. The media covers shootings that spawn protests and most shootings don't.

Not fanning the flames like that would go a long way, don't you think?

Because she is a woman? Or because she was the police?

I think being female could definitely have something to do with it - that they applied a different standard of "reasonable threat" than they would have to a male officer.

What in the other police shooting you referenced make you think that she being female in anyway got her off? In the other shootings the police were male and they didn't go jail, or even trial.

 

[laughing dog]

Reality doesn't have much to do with the BLM movement.

Nor with your opinions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Somehow I think we aren't getting the whole story--why did she feel there was a threat??

I have to give you credit, at least you are consistent in your defense of the police no matter who they attack. Unlike our resident sjw's their outrage only applies to their preferred groups.

If what was reported was the whole story she would have been charged.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The idea of starting a "white lives matter" movement is ludicrous. Several liberal and "progressive" (i.e. non-racist) politicians have recently said simply "all lives matter" and have been subsequently shamed and forced to backtrack on that statement. White Lives Matter? Gimme a break. In these "Days of the Easily Offended" you'd be lucky if you weren't threatened and/or forced to live the rest of your life underground.

Hmmm.

Black folk tried to vote during Jim Crow and were beaten, arrested, and/or lynched, but they kept trying because they felt it a cause worth the sacrifice. Women where beaten, arrested, imprisoned, force-fed for suffrage, yet they kept trying because they felt it a cause worth the sacrifice.

White men are evidently being shot, I suppose for be white men (?), but no one is willing to face the slings and arrows of people ... talking? Could it be that white men think the cause isn't worth ... the inconvenience?

The basic problem here is the one that plagues so many movements: An inability to recognize victory.

When a large organization succeeds it becomes irrelevant and those at the top lose their positions. Thus large organizations never succeed, they just move the goalposts to avoid it.

 

[laughing dog]

Hmmm.

Black folk tried to vote during Jim Crow and were beaten, arrested, and/or lynched, but they kept trying because they felt it a cause worth the sacrifice. Women where beaten, arrested, imprisoned, force-fed for suffrage, yet they kept trying because they felt it a cause worth the sacrifice.

White men are evidently being shot, I suppose for be white men (?), but no one is willing to face the slings and arrows of people ... talking? Could it be that white men think the cause isn't worth ... the inconvenience?

The basic problem here is the one that plagues so many movements: An inability to recognize victory.

When a large organization succeeds it becomes irrelevant and those at the top lose their positions. Thus large organizations never succeed, they just move the goalposts to avoid it.

Which large organization and what victory are you referring to?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The double standard is for example how the media treats shootings when the shootee is white vs. black. That's how the false BLM narrative of there being "open season" or "genocide" on blacks gets started.

I don't think the media has a double standard. Rather, they have a sensationalism bias.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Derec, was this man's race a contributing factor to his being shot? Is there historical precedent for white men being shot by the police for being white men? Just who are you mad at? The media for not covering the protests that don't happen? That a woman police officer shot a male citizen and didn't get proper punishment? And why do you think that is? Because she is a woman? Or because she was the police?

The article didn't give the reason. If it's the case I think it is they're omitting the important detail that he shot at the cops.

 

[laughing dog]

Derec, was this man's race a contributing factor to his being shot? Is there historical precedent for white men being shot by the police for being white men? Just who are you mad at? The media for not covering the protests that don't happen? That a woman police officer shot a male citizen and didn't get proper punishment? And why do you think that is? Because she is a woman? Or because she was the police?

The article didn't give the reason. If it's the case I think it is they're omitting the important detail that he shot at the cops.

The article did give the reason "“Walking with a purpose”. And the victim was unarmed, so there is no way he could have shot at anyone. So, either come up with a link with information that confirms your "thoughts", or stop confusing your conjectures with reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The article didn't give the reason. If it's the case I think it is they're omitting the important detail that he shot at the cops.

The article did give the reason "“Walking with a purpose”. And the victim was unarmed, so there is no way he could have shot at anyone. So, either come up with a link with information that confirms your "thoughts", or stop confusing your conjectures with reality.

I think you're confusing the situation. The article says he was running away.