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Doctors without limits

Loren Pechtel

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DrZoidberg

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https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.for...onsent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/amp/

Turns out that doctors and medical students have been raping patients systematically, and are still doing it and don't see what the problem is.

This was published in May. I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a stink. This is the first I hear of it

It's been a long standing practice that for some reason seems very hard to get rid of.

We already have laws against rape. There's witnesses. All prosecutors need to do is start prosecuting.

I somehow doubt the doctors will lie under oath
 

whollygoats

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This type of behavior has been addressed and is known. A leading advocate for patient safety, Dr. Lucien Leape, and his associates, have this to say about the 'culture of disrespect' amongst physicians and health care providers.
 

Loren Pechtel

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I actually believe this is why my bride got a woman gynecologist when she had the chance. Prior to that she often appeared uncomfortable after seeing a male gynecologist. Not rape perhaps, but, attitude certainly.

Yup, my wife is much happier with female ones because of attitude. She's never had a male one that saw her as a person, not merely a piece of anatomy.
 

southernhybrid

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Unless, it's a specialist that has no or very few females practitioners, I always choose a female. I prefer a Nurse Practitioner to a physician, as I find they are usually more likely to look at the total picture of what's going on, instead of simply focusing on one or two symptoms. Of course, I am biased, being a former nurse.

The Atlanta Journal did an in-depth study on doctors accused of sexual abuse and the numbers were horrific. Unfortunately, male practitioners don't usually lose their licenses or get prosecuted. Or they lose them temporarily.

I did have on male OB/GYN back in the early 80s that I liked. There weren't any females available where I lived at the time. He was a very gentle, caring older man. I was told by some nurses that knew him well, that he used to do abortions before they were legal because he was a strong advocate for women's rights and choices. He wanted to provide safe abortions, and I'm not sure but they may have said that he did this for free.

On the other hand, when I worked as a public health nurse in the late 70s, we had a health fair once and I was the chaperon, working with a male doctor. He was white and was doing a breast exam on a young black female. He actually said to her while he was touching her breasts, "You sure weren't standing in the back of the line when they handed out boobs." She and I were both horrified. What the fuck! I complained to my supervisor and she just blew the comment off, saying he didn't mean anything by that remark. How insensitive can a person be? That young woman felt very uncomfortable when he made that remark. Even if he had no desire to do anything else inappropriate, how clueless can a man be? Women never forget that kind of shit! It made me wonder if that poor young woman ever felt comfortable again around a male doctor.

Have you guys been following the news about the doctor in California and his girlfriend who used a date rape drug on women that he met online so he could sexually assault them? I have no idea why women are sometimes complicit with this type of behavior, and of course he's denying it ever happened. Sure, dozens of women have claimed he sexually assaulted them, but some people will believe it's the women who are lying.
 

whollygoats

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Unless, it's a specialist that has no or very few females practitioners, I always choose a female. I prefer a Nurse Practitioner to a physician, as I find they are usually more likely to look at the total picture of what's going on, instead of simply focusing on one or two symptoms. Of course, I am biased, being a former nurse.

I concur. I worked at a regional health sciences university. I came away from that lengthy experience with a distinct preference for nurse practitioners over general internists or family medicine physicians.
 

fromderinside

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For me there are types of NPs. Thre are chatty, friendly ones wanting to be liked, garrulous ones looking to get something off her or his chest and professional ones looking to be of help to "Doctor" - Their words. - so I prefer doctors who are in to being what they were trained for beyond cutting one up.

My doc is, as are more and more of them in less populated places, of offshore or over boarder flavor and inclinations.

Very serious,, friendly in his way and very much concerned with treating me as an individual with a special set of issues. Nice chats, lots of home spun, if a bit translator worthy, adise no well on our way toe becoming friends. He actually asked me what was my dissertation last week and listened as I droned on for about five minutes.
MY LAST VISIT SUMMARY RAN SIX SINGLE SPACE TYPEWRITTEN PAGES.
 

southernhybrid

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Actually, it was my former female physician that was the chatty one, sometimes telling me her personal problems etc. I liked that. It made our relationship stronger, but I think it may just be a female thing. My dental hygienist talks non stop while she cleans my teeth. I love that, but my husband thinks it's crazy.
 

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My money is on that the most rapey doctors are the friendliest ones. They've an incentive to seem friendly. The one's that are all business have no dirty secret to cover up.
 

southernhybrid

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My money is on that the most rapey doctors are the friendliest ones. They've an incentive to seem friendly. The one's that are all business have no dirty secret to cover up.


I don't know. No male doctors have ever given me the impression that they were sexual abusers, and I prefer a friendly doctor to one who is cold and distant. I did see an orthopedic specialist earlier this year. He was very kind and professional, as well as friendly, but not overly so. I'm sure that abusers are in the minority, but they do need to be weeded out. I just prefer female providers because as a woman myself, it's much easier to talk to them, especially about problems related to female anatomy. :)
 

southernhybrid

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Not rural enough sothernhybrid. My liberal ears can't take the rantings of my dental tech's "I heard" racist hominy rants filled with Christiyan piety and facts that aren't. Fortunately only an hour every four months or so.

Well that's awful. My dental hygienist never says anything inappropriate. It's just "girl" talk, family issues, health problems etc. I live in a small southern town, and just like everywhere else, I'm sure we have our share of racists, but my experience here has been that most people aren't that way. The fact that we are racially divided between black and white helps a lot. I've been here for 20 years and have seen a lot of progress since I first arrived. We have so many mixed race families here now, and I think that has helped a lot. But, I'm going way off topic now.
 

ruby sparks

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My first thoughts are......

If I'm unconscious and it's being done to train new doctors, then, so long as my health and safety isn't compromised, go ahead and let half a dozen students stick their fingers up my bum or whatever, for the good of future healthcare standards for society.

That said, I can understand if others would not be so unconcerned.
 

DrZoidberg

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My money is on that the most rapey doctors are the friendliest ones. They've an incentive to seem friendly. The one's that are all business have no dirty secret to cover up.


I don't know. No male doctors have ever given me the impression that they were sexual abusers, and I prefer a friendly doctor to one who is cold and distant. I did see an orthopedic specialist earlier this year. He was very kind and professional, as well as friendly, but not overly so. I'm sure that abusers are in the minority, but they do need to be weeded out. I just prefer female providers because as a woman myself, it's much easier to talk to them, especially about problems related to female anatomy. :)

I also prefer friendly ones. But I think it's a mistake to equate friendly with not rapey. Or to equate cold and distant with rapey.

One of the signs of psychopathy is that they're very charming, friendly and quickly well liked. Larry Nassar was apparently super charming.

Then there's that thing about intuition. Human intuition sucks. Intuition is only useful within a domain where you spend most of your time. So in a workplace you've had a long time, or in a long relationship or doing a task you've done a lot. But once you're removed from the familiar (like at a doctors office) your intuition will make you take the wrong decision more often than if you'd just made choices at random. It's an interesting psychological effect. We're not good in novel situations. So I think trusting your judgement about doctors will not serve you well. We tend to put too much weight on irrelevant details, rather than the stuff that matters.

when it comes to doctors, most people feel comfortable judging how good they are at work. But unless we've been to medical school... that judgement is based on nonsense.
 

southernhybrid

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My money is on that the most rapey doctors are the friendliest ones. They've an incentive to seem friendly. The one's that are all business have no dirty secret to cover up.


I don't know. No male doctors have ever given me the impression that they were sexual abusers, and I prefer a friendly doctor to one who is cold and distant. I did see an orthopedic specialist earlier this year. He was very kind and professional, as well as friendly, but not overly so. I'm sure that abusers are in the minority, but they do need to be weeded out. I just prefer female providers because as a woman myself, it's much easier to talk to them, especially about problems related to female anatomy. :)

I also prefer friendly ones. But I think it's a mistake to equate friendly with not rapey. Or to equate cold and distant with rapey.

One of the signs of psychopathy is that they're very charming, friendly and quickly well liked. Larry Nassar was apparently super charming.

Then there's that thing about intuition. Human intuition sucks. Intuition is only useful within a domain where you spend most of your time. So in a workplace you've had a long time, or in a long relationship or doing a task you've done a lot. But once you're removed from the familiar (like at a doctors office) your intuition will make you take the wrong decision more often than if you'd just made choices at random. It's an interesting psychological effect. We're not good in novel situations. So I think trusting your judgement about doctors will not serve you well. We tend to put too much weight on irrelevant details, rather than the stuff that matters.

when it comes to doctors, most people feel comfortable judging how good they are at work. But unless we've been to medical school... that judgement is based on nonsense.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but I've always been an excellent judge of whether or not a man was creepy, whether or not they are doctors. The biggest problem in my opinion is that a lot fo women are intimidated by male doctors and don't feel comfortable standing up to them. I've never, ever had that problem, not as a nurse, not as a patient. But, not every woman is as assertive as I am. It's sort of like women who are victims of sexual harassment and assault. I'm not claiming that what I did to get rid of a man who threatened to rape me always works. But, what I did was stand up to him, then I shamed him. He left me, probably with a limp dick having between his legs, because instead of acting fearful, which I was, but I was able to hide my fear and take charge of the situation. I realize that not every woman is able to do that and if a rapist is a raging psycho, my tactics may not work. But, the local police told me that what I did was the best thing a woman can do when she is threatened by a rapist.
 

DrZoidberg

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I also prefer friendly ones. But I think it's a mistake to equate friendly with not rapey. Or to equate cold and distant with rapey.

One of the signs of psychopathy is that they're very charming, friendly and quickly well liked. Larry Nassar was apparently super charming.

Then there's that thing about intuition. Human intuition sucks. Intuition is only useful within a domain where you spend most of your time. So in a workplace you've had a long time, or in a long relationship or doing a task you've done a lot. But once you're removed from the familiar (like at a doctors office) your intuition will make you take the wrong decision more often than if you'd just made choices at random. It's an interesting psychological effect. We're not good in novel situations. So I think trusting your judgement about doctors will not serve you well. We tend to put too much weight on irrelevant details, rather than the stuff that matters.

when it comes to doctors, most people feel comfortable judging how good they are at work. But unless we've been to medical school... that judgement is based on nonsense.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but I've always been an excellent judge of whether or not a man was creepy, whether or not they are doctors. The biggest problem in my opinion is that a lot fo women are intimidated by male doctors and don't feel comfortable standing up to them. I've never, ever had that problem, not as a nurse, not as a patient. But, not every woman is as assertive as I am. It's sort of like women who are victims of sexual harassment and assault. I'm not claiming that what I did to get rid of a man who threatened to rape me always works. But, what I did was stand up to him, then I shamed him. He left me, probably with a limp dick having between his legs, because instead of acting fearful, which I was, but I was able to hide my fear and take charge of the situation. I realize that not every woman is able to do that and if a rapist is a raging psycho, my tactics may not work. But, the local police told me that what I did was the best thing a woman can do when she is threatened by a rapist.

But how can you tell the difference between an exceedingly competent specialist who just happens to be stressed, has a lot of patients and just wants to get on with it, or a creepy doctor who's just an arse?

People who have been victims of violent crimes tend to become hyper aware. Which means that they will over-interpret things as threats.

The human brain is isn't particularly good at giving us an accurate picture of the world. It sucks at calculating risk. Which is why we feel uneasy about walking alone at night in a rough neighbourhood but safe when getting into a car. The car is the more dangerous way of travel.
 

southernhybrid

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Women are often quite good at evaluating whether or not a man is potentially dangerous. The problem is that we don't always listen to our instincts. It's better to err, and avoid a man that makes us feel uncomfortable, even if we're wrong, than to put ourselves into what might be a potentially dangerous situation. For more information, there is a book that I read about 15 years ago called, "The Gift of Fear." I can't recall the name of the author, but it was written by a detective who had a lot of experience with women who had been sexually assaulted. His advice is to always avoid a man or men that make you feel uncomfortable. Always worry more about your own safety than the man's feelings. I think that is excellent advice for all women.

The problem with predatory physicians is that a lot of women are easily manipulated and not assertive enough to stand up to a male who is in a position of authority. We are taught to trust physicians. I think we should be more careful.

After being followed to my car and threatened with rape, I stopped going out at night alone. So, even when we are able to get a potential predator to leave us alone, we never forget those incidents and we often adjust our behavior to avoid the possibility of being in a potentially risky situation. It shouldn't be like that. And, don't get me wrong. I think most men are harmless and I don't go around evaluating every man I see to decide whether or not he is potentially dangerous.
 

Kharakov

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Where are all the hot female rapist doctors? Ok, I'll take nurses as well.
 

DrZoidberg

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Where are all the hot female rapist doctors? Ok, I'll take nurses as well.

My first wife was quite annoyed when she started working as a nurse. She had a smoking hot body, and was forced to hide it in baggy nurses clothes.
 
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