Does the Second Amendment apply to non citizens/residents?

[Derec]

A person can be somewhere illegally.
But a person cannot be "an illegal".

Of course they can. It's a perfectly valid word, even if pro-illegals consider is pejorative.
It's certainly better than "undocumented immigrant" and similar PC-speak.

And sanctuary is a good thing.

No, it is not. It protects illegals and prevents them from being deported.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In Florida, he'd be free. Discharging the gun is likely prohibited and not protected in NY.

 

[untermensche]

A person can be somewhere illegally.
But a person cannot be "an illegal".

Of course they can. It's a perfectly valid word....

It is a word but not a valid concept.

It is an evil ignorant idea.

People can commit crimes. They can trespass.

But they are a human with human rights.

They cannot BE an illegal.

That is an ignorant and dangerous idea used by Nazi's.

And sanctuary is a good thing.

No, it is not. It protects illegals and prevents them from being deported.

What is so good about deporting people?

 

[Derec]

They cannot BE an illegal.
That is an ignorant and dangerous idea used by Nazi's.

Illegal can be perfectly validly used as a noun. An apostrophe cannot be used to form plurals.

And this overuse of Nazis is getting annoying.

What is so good about deporting people?

They are no longer here. Duh!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

What is so good about deporting people?

If the US is an evil capitalist dictatorial anti-democratic top-down system, what is so bad about deporting people?

 

[Underseer]

A person can be somewhere illegally.

But a person cannot be "an illegal".

And sanctuary is a good thing.

Agreed.

It's especially ludicrous nomenclature given that we are all living on stolen land.

But then, right wingers have always hated the fact that America is an immigrant nation.

 

[Derec]

It's especially ludicrous nomenclature given that we are all living on stolen land.

Indians had no concept of land held as property. Where there is no property, there can be no theft.

But then, right wingers have always hated the fact that America is an immigrant nation.

It's not an illegal immigrant nation.

 

[untermensche]

They cannot BE an illegal.
That is an ignorant and dangerous idea used by Nazi's.

Illegal can be perfectly validly used as a noun.

No it cannot.

A human is a human.

The human can be somewhere illegally.

But the human cannot be AN illegal.

It is a mental act of dehumanization.

It is repugnant.

And this overuse of Nazis is getting annoying.

Stop behaving like one.

All humans are the same thing.

Some are not legal and others illegal.

What is so good about deporting people?

They are no longer here. Duh!

That doesn't make one thing better here.

You and your ilk being deported on the other hand............

 

[untermensche]

But then, right wingers have always hated the fact that America is an immigrant nation.

It's not an illegal immigrant nation.

The people who came from Europe and killed the inhabitants and took their land had no papers.

It was genocide. Some think this is a crime.

They had no permission.

 

[Derec]

No it cannot.

Yes it can.

A human is a human.

And that humanity is not diminished if we refer to them by other nouns. Even nouns derived from adjectives.
A human who commits criminal acts is referred to as a criminal. By same logic, a human living somewhere illegally is an illegal.
Neither use denies that they are human also.

But the human cannot be AN illegal.
It is a mental act of dehumanization.
It is repugnant.

It is not. What you are doing is an act of faulty logic.

Stop behaving like one.

Can't stop what one never starts.

All humans are the same thing.

Obviously not. We are all different. We are all individuals. Except that one guy.

Some are not legal and others illegal.

Yes, they are.

That doesn't make one thing better here.

It does. Controlling who gets to come in and who doesn't is vital to having a functioning country. It's like the cytoplasmic membrane of a cell. If you dissolve it (lysis) the cell is no more.

You and your ilk being deported on the other hand............

If you feel like that about me, that's how I feel about actual illegals breaking immigration laws with impunity.

 

[Derec]

The people who came from Europe and killed the inhabitants and took their land had no papers.

What are you talking about? They had plenty of papers. For example:

Can't get a better paper than a royal one.

It was genocide. Some think this is a crime.

Ex post facto laws are generally prohibited.

They had no permission.

Again, see royal charter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, the intent of sanctuary cities is that they do not attempt to go after illegals if they have other contact with the system. The intent is to allow them access to things like law enforcement so disputes are settled legally rather than by violence as they are in the criminal world.

It goes far beyond that. It prohibits local LEOs from assisting federal immigration authorities in any way, and in fact they hinder them actively too.
That case where an illegal killed a woman (and got away with it thanks to a SF jury) is probably one of the most egregious uses of "sanctuary city" policies. Zarate, the illegal, was already in federal custody, but was transferred to SF for a local matter to be adjudicated. After that was done, he was simply released into the wild and not returned to ICE custory because SF is prohibited from assisting the feds. That's messed up.

The illegal got away with it because the prosecutor shot for the moon rather than focusing on what could be proven.

 

[Derec]

The illegal got away with it because the prosecutor shot for the moon rather than focusing on what could be proven.

Perhaps, but it was at the very least manslaughter. And if SF officials had transferred him back to ICE custody, none of this would have happened.

 

[untermensche]

Yes it can.

And that humanity is not diminished if we refer to them by other nouns.

It is diminished.

They are assigned lesser rights.

By saying they are not a human but an illegal they can be assigned lesser rights.

A human who commits criminal acts is referred to as a criminal.

A trespasser is a trespasser.

A murderer is a murderer.

A rapist is a rapist.

None are "an illegal".

- - - Updated - - -

What are you talking about? They had plenty of papers. For example:

Can't get a better paper than a royal one.


Ex post facto laws are generally prohibited.

They had no permission.

Again, see royal charter.

The people coming from Mexico can produce similar papers.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The illegal got away with it because the prosecutor shot for the moon rather than focusing on what could be proven.

Perhaps, but it was at the very least manslaughter. And if SF officials had transferred him back to ICE custody, none of this would have happened.

My impression was that he was guilty of manslaughter, not of murder.

And are you sure the SF officials failed to transfer him back? Part of the problem was ICE expecting the local officials to hold prisoners that were eligible for release by local standards. Many of those "releases" were locals telling the feds when/where to come pick them up and the feds not bothering to come get them until it was convenient for them.