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Don't say gay -- oops!

Loren Pechtel

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
 
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Loren Pechtel

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?

The right is trying to use this against things like examples that have two same-gender names as an apparent couple. Oops, it also works against things which use two opposite-gender names as an apparent couple.

Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
 

Metaphor

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Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
What on god's green earth are you talking about?

You direct males to the male bathroom and females to the female bathroom, if they need such direction. Those are the correct bathrooms and they have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.
 

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There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”

You just cant identify anyone as Mr, or Mrs, or identify anyone as a boy or girl. That's all. Perfectly normal stuff.

Carry on
 

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Folks who think this law protects their children will only see this issue of not doing anything gender-related as an attack on their principles instead of an indication that the law is written poorly.

They're just too stupid to see it. It's hopeless.
 

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There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”
That pretty much means they "can't say gay". That was implied with the issue on "sexual orientation".
 

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
I actually agree. Sexuality shouldn’t be discussed at all in K-3. Gay, straight, whatever.

But that’s not the real reason behind this bill. It’s just another attempt to rally the base. The bill simply isn’t necessary. Thus they are trying to simply get homophobic people to rally at the polls in November. The Democratic response has been pathetic. They keep playing along with these games. By fighting these things head on, they are keeping the issue in the news and virtually guaranteeing a large conservative voter turnout. Hillary Clinton lost North Carolina because some doofus made a big deal about a transgender bathroom, when there was no need for that shit in an election year.

The Democrats need to focus on winning elections, not fighting issues.
 

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Folks who think this law protects their children will only see this issue of not doing anything gender-related as an attack on their principles instead of an indication that the law is written poorly.

They're just too stupid to see it. It's hopeless.
They no doubt think "that's not what we meant it to do" is a reasonable defense.

Luckily the court system must rule on slightly more substantive grounds.
 

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
Would this be all teachers, or just those of which you approve?
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Folks who think this law protects their children will only see this issue of not doing anything gender-related as an attack on their principles instead of an indication that the law is written poorly.

They're just too stupid to see it. It's hopeless.
They no doubt think "that's not what we meant it to do" is a reasonable defense.

Luckily the court system must rule on slightly more substantive grounds.
Right-wing conservative judges have shown that simply isn't the case anymore.
 

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
Would this be all teachers, or just those of which you approve?
All teachers.
It's one thing to describe your partner or something. But Mr Johnson saying that he's married to Joe isn't the same as discussing his sex life.
Similarly, I don't think that heterosexual teachers should be discussing their sex lives.

None of this has anything to do with sex lives. "I'm married to Joe" isn't a different statement coming from Mary as opposed to William.
Tom
 
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Bronzeage

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
Would this be all teachers, or just those of which you approve?
All teachers.
It's one thing to describe your partner or something. But Mr Johnson saying that he's married to Joe isn't the same as discussing his sex life.
Similarly, I don't think that heterosexual teachers should be discussing their sex lives.

None of this has anything to do with sex lives. "I'm married to Joe isn't a different statement coming from Mary as opposed to William.
Tom
That's pretty much the situation I recall from my school days, but the devil has been detailed. What does "discussing their sex lives" mean. If I meet a man and a woman who tell me they are legally married and have children, it implies they have had sex with each other at some time. If a couple says, "We're want to have a baby in the next year," that's pretty much a gold plated confession to carnal knowledge.

It's easy enough for sensible people to handle this sort of thing in social situations, but we're trying to write a legal statute that accounts for all foreseeable conditions. If "discussing their sex lives" is to be a crime, it needs to be a well defined crime.
 

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Folks who think this law protects their children will only see this issue of not doing anything gender-related as an attack on their principles instead of an indication that the law is written poorly.

They're just too stupid to see it. It's hopeless.
They no doubt think "that's not what we meant it to do" is a reasonable defense.

Luckily the court system must rule on slightly more substantive grounds.
Right-wing conservative judges have shown that simply isn't the case anymore.

"I have as much faith in our courts as I do in god". ~token black guy~
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
Would this be all teachers, or just those of which you approve?
All teachers.
It's one thing to describe your partner or something. But Mr Johnson saying that he's married to Joe isn't the same as discussing his sex life.
It can be if someone wants it to be. Especially when we know that this has nothing to do with fear of children being exposed to tales of graphic sodomy in the classroom, put on a path for grooming into the pizzeria.

This is about preventing the normalization that gay people exist... and even worse... they be like most other people.
 

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Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
What on god's green earth are you talking about?

You direct males to the male bathroom and females to the female bathroom, if they need such direction. Those are the correct bathrooms and they have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
 

Gospel

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For example, let's say a human child who self-identifies as female needs to go to the bathroom. The school ushers the child to X bathroom marked with X label. The child says "that's not the right bathroom" and the teacher replies," yes it is. This bathroom marked for X is for X".

LAWSUIT!!! They just taught gender identity.
 

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The right wing nonsense or play book is to continually accuse Democrats of corrupting, grooming or trading children for sex. If anyone saw Jordon Klepper's piece on "The Daily Show" recently, where he interviewed idiots that attended CPAC, you would see a little evidence of this. One asshole was wearing a T-shirt that read, "Biden Loves Minors".Then they claimed that everything is Biden's fault from the war in Ukraine to the price of oil.

I saw a Democrat on MSNBC, who was running for a state Senate seat in one of the midwestern states who has been accused of "grooming children" for sex by her Republican opponent. The R party has become the party of easily manipulated idiots who actually believe that Democrats are a Cabal of evil people who use children for sex, especially gay sex. It's sickening.

The R party has become a dangerous threat to the. US, moving us along the road to authoritarianism. This stupid "don't say gay" law is. targeting children again, using them to try and demonize Democrats. When Democrats object to this insanity, their reply is that Democrats want to exploit children by discussing sex with them when they are very young. The Republicans don't actually care about these children. They just use them to add to their heinous claims about Democrats. If they cared about children, they would support more bills that aide families with children. This stupid law does nothing to protect children.

Sometimes ya gotta laugh because you can't make this shit up, but at the same time, it can be scary as hell, metaphorically speaking of course.
 

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It went from the Southern Strategy to the QAnon Strategy... "Won't someone think of the children?!" Except in this case, the GOP is making some viler than average accusations that really need to be prosecuted.
 

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There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”
That pretty much means they "can't say gay". That was implied with the issue on "sexual orientation".
That's what Im getting at - my sarcasm didn't come through.
 

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Yesterday, Governor Desantis upped the ante and is going after Disney:
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis escalated his weeks-long feud with Disney on Tuesday, challenging lawmakers to eliminate the unique status that allows the entertainment company to operate as an independent government around its Orlando-area theme parks.
Within hours, Republican lawmakers delivered, quickly advancing a pair of bills targeting Disney over its objections to a new law limiting classroom instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity.
"Once upon a time Disney was a great partner with the state of Florida," said Rep. Jackie Toledo, a Tampa Republican. "We've granted them privileges because of our shared history, shared goals and shared successes. Shamefully, Disney betrayed us."
It now appears almost certain that by the end of the week, the long-standing symbiotic arrangement that helped grow Disney into an iconic entertainment brand and Florida into an international travel destination could be dissolved.....

Republicans in Florida and Disney have been at odds for months over legislation that prohibits schools from teaching young children about sexual orientation or gender identity. After initially declining to weigh in, Disney CEO Bob Chapek publicly criticized Florida lawmakers for passing what opponents called the "Don't Say Gay" bill and apologized to the company's LGBTQ employees for not being a stronger advocate. source: Gov. Desantis takes on Disney

I guess Disney's Ron's Gone Wrong was a prophecy.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”
That pretty much means they "can't say gay". That was implied with the issue on "sexual orientation".
That's what Im getting at - my sarcasm didn't come through.
My bad, Poe's Law has made internet communication too difficult these days.
 

Metaphor

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Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
What on god's green earth are you talking about?

You direct males to the male bathroom and females to the female bathroom, if they need such direction. Those are the correct bathrooms and they have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.

I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
My sex is male. I do not understand what 'gender identity' is, and, if I had such an identity, why anybody anywhere would be interested in it.

'Boys' and 'Girls' signs do not refer to 'gender identity', but the sex of the people expected to use the facilities.

So no, bathroom signs don't need to be removed.
 

Metaphor

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For example, let's say a human child who self-identifies as female needs to go to the bathroom. The school ushers the child to X bathroom marked with X label. The child says "that's not the right bathroom" and the teacher replies," yes it is. This bathroom marked for X is for X".

LAWSUIT!!! They just taught gender identity.
Telling a child female bathrooms are for females has nothing to do with gender identity, let alone 'teaching gender identity'.
 

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Oh? So what do you think Gender Identity is?
 

Metaphor

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Oh? So what do you think Gender Identity is?
I don't know. When you claim I identify my gender as male, what do you mean?
 

Loren Pechtel

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Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
What on god's green earth are you talking about?

You direct males to the male bathroom and females to the female bathroom, if they need such direction. Those are the correct bathrooms and they have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.
The standard conservative flaw. You only think of things like gender identity when it deviates from the norm. What you're missing is that the norm is also gender identity.
 

Loren Pechtel

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There is nothing in the law that says you can't say gay. It explicitly says “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3.”
That pretty much means they "can't say gay". That was implied with the issue on "sexual orientation".
Look at the sentence you didn't quote. He understood.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
I actually agree. Sexuality shouldn’t be discussed at all in K-3. Gay, straight, whatever.
What should be happening at those grades is simply a recognition that not all couples are opposite sex.

The law is attempting to prohibit any reference to same sex couples, but in practice it cuts both ways--you can't refer to opposite-sex couples, either.
 
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Metaphor

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Can't do gender identity--which means you can't direct them to the right bathroom.
What on god's green earth are you talking about?

You direct males to the male bathroom and females to the female bathroom, if they need such direction. Those are the correct bathrooms and they have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.
The standard conservative flaw. You only think of things like gender identity when it deviates from the norm. What you're missing is that the norm is also gender identity.
Your reply here makes even less sense than your previous utterance.

How on earth does directing males to the male toilet, and females to the female toilet, if anyone needs such direction, have anything whatsoever to do with 'gender identity'?

Spell it out for me. Tell me the exact situation you think this law forbids.
 

Loren Pechtel

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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.
 

Loren Pechtel

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For example, let's say a human child who self-identifies as female needs to go to the bathroom. The school ushers the child to X bathroom marked with X label. The child says "that's not the right bathroom" and the teacher replies," yes it is. This bathroom marked for X is for X".

LAWSUIT!!! They just taught gender identity.
And they can't show the blind kid which restroom to use.
 

Metaphor

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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.
In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?
 

Metaphor

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For example, let's say a human child who self-identifies as female needs to go to the bathroom. The school ushers the child to X bathroom marked with X label. The child says "that's not the right bathroom" and the teacher replies," yes it is. This bathroom marked for X is for X".

LAWSUIT!!! They just taught gender identity.
And they can't show the blind kid which restroom to use.
What?
 

SLD

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
I actually agree. Sexuality shouldn’t be discussed at all in K-3. Gay, straight, whatever.
What should be happening at those grades is simply a recognition that not all couples are opposite sex.

The law is attempting to prohibit any reference to same sex couples, but in practice it cuts both ways--you can't refer to opposite-sex couples, either.
Yeah, just read the fucking Dick and Jane reader and learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. But again it’s not the point of the law. It’s just designed to rally the homophobes to the party. That’s all they’re trying to do.
 

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Err, okay. So we're all in agreement that teachers should not be discussing their sex lives with children? We're there now, right?
I actually agree. Sexuality shouldn’t be discussed at all in K-3. Gay, straight, whatever.
What should be happening at those grades is simply a recognition that not all couples are opposite sex.

The law is attempting to prohibit any reference to same sex couples, but in practice it cuts both ways--you can't refer to opposite-sex couples, either.
Yeah, just read the fucking Dick and Jane reader and learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. But again it’s not the point of the law. It’s just designed to rally the homophobes to the party. That’s all they’re trying to do.
What about the Dick and John reader, or the Doris and Jane reader?

;)
 
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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.
In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?
I get it now, you are not from our universe.
 

Metaphor

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My sex is male
You identify your gender as male. Ok cool..
No, I don't.

I don't know what you think 'gender identity' is. What is it?
What is an acceptable source for you before I answer. Is there a particular scientist in the relevant field you find notably trust worthy? Would the Webster dictionary be an acceptable source?
I'm asking for your definition. Clearly you are using the term 'gender identity' and you claim I have one. So what do you mean?
 

Metaphor

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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.
In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?
I get it now, you are not from our universe.
I'm from a universe where directing males to the male toilets is neither 'teaching' gender identity or even referencing the concept.

So I am afraid for your universe which is inhabited by people that believe 'sex' and 'gender identity' are the same.
 

Gospel

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My sex is male
You identify your gender as male. Ok cool..
No, I don't.

I don't know what you think 'gender identity' is. What is it?
What is an acceptable source for you before I answer. Is there a particular scientist in the relevant field you find notably trust worthy? Would the Webster dictionary be an acceptable source?
I'm asking for your definition. Clearly you are using the term 'gender identity' and you claim I have one. So what do you mean?

My definition is a tribal definition. In other words like all words, it's the most common usage of the term agreed upon by the tribe.

Here is the oxfords dictionary's definition of gender identity:

"an individual's personal sense of having a particular gender."

So for example, you calling yourself a girl or boy is your personal sense of having a particular gender. According to Florida Law teachers cannot discuss that with Kindergarten students. The law is so stupidly written in a way that any child asking to go to the bathroom will need to be directed to a bathroom with no Gender designation as those signs are gender identifiers. It also puts the use of the words Girl and Boy in educational material in jeopardy since those address Gender Identity that the teachers are forbidden to discuss. The attempt to avoid writing the law in a way that directly impacts its intended target has made Gender itself its target.

In my opinion, it creates an opportunity for frivolous lawsuits and justifiable yet unnecessary calls for adjustments to school facilities and textbooks. This is besides my opinion that kindergartners don't give a damn about Gender Identity the way grown folks seem to.

Apparently, Florida has just banned all textbooks but one & parents haven't even been given a list of the publishers and their books for review. So much for caring about the parent's rights. I wonder which one of Desantis' relatives is married to the publisher. :ROFLMAO:

Note: I'm not serious about the last sentence but you never know.
 

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I wonder which one of Desantis' relatives is married to the publisher. :ROFLMAO:

Note: I'm not serious about the last sentence but you never know.
No marriage, but definitly business links and support of the DeVos family.

 

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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.
In what universe does a bathroom sign saying 'boys' or 'girls' refer to gender identity?
I get it now, you are not from our universe.
I'm from a universe where directing males to the male toilets is neither 'teaching' gender identity or even referencing the concept.
A simple "yes" would have sufficed.
 

Gospel

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I agree with you on sexual orientation but gender identity? Do you not have a personal sense of your own gender? Well, the rules ban mentioning gender identity. They'll have to remove the boy's and girls' designation from the bathroom doors or eat a lawsuit. It's how the law is written.
I don't think so--this is aimed at teachers, the teachers didn't put up the signs. I don't think it lets them go after the signmaker.

If teachers don't teach children where to go to the bathroom sure. :sneaky:
 

Gospel

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The Sword of Omens tells me, a teacher just minding his/her own business doing his/her job is going to get slapped with a lawsuit for taking little Preston to the boy's room because Preston's parents believe Preston when she says she wants to grow up to be a girl. And guess what... According to how the law is written It would work. Teaching Preston what bathroom to use is using the forbidden GeNdEr IdEnTiTy in the school.
 

Gospel

Unify Africa
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
3,311
Location
Florida
Gender
B====D
Basic Beliefs
Agnostic
Talk about destroying the very thing you sought to protect. Gosh. It's not the "don't say gay" bill. It's the "end of all genders" bill. They're literally helping the other side without knowing it. (y)
 

TomC

Celestial Highness
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
4,561
Location
Midwestern USA
Gender
Faggot
Basic Beliefs
Agnostic deist
Talk about destroying the very thing you sought to protect. Gosh. It's not the "don't say gay" bill. It's the "end of all genders" bill. They're literally helping the other side without knowing it. (y)
Kinda ironic, innit?

When I was that age there was a clear differentiation between
Miss
Mr
Sister
Mrs
Fr

Even us dumbass 9 year olds knew what the honorifics meant, how to use them, and that there'd be trouble if we didn't use them correctly.
Tom
 
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