End the Israeli occupation??

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17608

How? Abbas says that all of Israel is occupied.

 

[Arctish]

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17608

How? Abbas says that all of Israel is occupied.

1). Formulate and ratify a mutually agreed upon peace deal that delineates the border of Israel, establishes that the territory within that border is part of the State of Israel with no Palestinian claims upon it, while also establishing that all the territory outside that border is not part of the State of Israel and dissolves all Israeli claims to it.

2) Withdraw Israeli forces to the Israel side of the border.

Occupation over.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

 

[Ford]

1). Formulate and ratify a mutually agreed upon peace deal that delineates the border of Israel, establishes that the territory within that border is part of the State of Israel with no Palestinian claims upon it, while also establishing that all the territory outside that border is not part of the State of Israel and dissolves all Israeli claims to it.

Unlikely. While the "Palestinian Media Watch" quotes Abbas, his counterparts on the Israeli right wing believe the opposite. To them, there simply is no land to which Palestinians have a claim upon. The occupied territories are Israeli land as far as they're concerned. The wars are long over and Israel has no reason to give back the land they took. Every settlement they build, every expansion of the Israeli "border" becomes part of Greater Israel.


Every acre of Palestinian land they confiscate becomes Israeli land, and no other claim can be recognized.

What we're watching is not really an occupation anymore. it is an expansionist policy put into effect on a decades long scale. Eventually what is known as the West Bank will disappear as settlements are built and territory is "claimed" in the name of Israel. Then they will turn their attention to Gaza.

2) Withdraw Israeli forces to the Israel side of the border.

When the above process is complete, Israel will only have borders with Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. There will be no "Palestinian side" of any border because there won't be any Palestinian land left.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

Hell a lot of them don't even believe there was ever such a place called "Palestine." You're dealing with people who think God gave them the land for all eternity, and even when Israel didn't exist as a state, it was only a temporary condition until they could go back and take what God had given them.

 

[Derec]

1). Formulate and ratify a mutually agreed upon peace deal that delineates the border of Israel, establishes that the territory within that border is part of the State of Israel with no Palestinian claims upon it, while also establishing that all the territory outside that border is not part of the State of Israel and dissolves all Israeli claims to it.

A bit difficult to come up with any agreement when the supposed moderates are still pretty radical and want to eliminate Israel.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

Mandate Palestine, sure. But your statement is misleading as "Palestine" there only referred to a geographic area and did not have the Arab nationalist connotations it gained later.

 

[laughing dog]

Some day the Israeli occupation will end. But I doubt anyone in the region will be alive to greet it.

 

[Arctish]

A bit difficult to come up with any agreement when the supposed moderates are still pretty radical and want to eliminate Israel.

I agree. But you forgot to mention the radicals on the other side who want to eliminate Palestinian ownership of the West Bank and Gaza. It's difficult to come up with any agreement when the most bigoted and militant factions are in charge.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

Mandate Palestine, sure. But your statement is misleading as "Palestine" there only referred to a geographic area and did not have the Arab nationalist connotations it gained later.

Not all of the Palestinians embraced Arab nationalism. Some of them wanted to preserve the cosmopolitan, multi-cultural society they enjoyed under Ottoman rule. But in any case, the region has been referred to as Palestine since the Roman Empire was a thing, so I just don't see why people have such a hard time admitting that Israel was formed in Palestine out of parts of Palestine.

Anyway, Loren's question was how to end the Occupation. The answer is simple and obvious, but that doesn't mean a die-hard Zionist can admit it exists.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Some day the Israeli occupation will end. But I doubt anyone in the region will be alive to greet it.

Possibly after earth is hit by a giant meteor.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17608

How? Abbas says that all of Israel is occupied.

1). Formulate and ratify a mutually agreed upon peace deal that delineates the border of Israel, establishes that the territory within that border is part of the State of Israel with no Palestinian claims upon it, while also establishing that all the territory outside that border is not part of the State of Israel and dissolves all Israeli claims to it.

2) Withdraw Israeli forces to the Israel side of the border.

Occupation over.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

And how do you do #1? The Palestinians won't accept the existence of Israel.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

1). Formulate and ratify a mutually agreed upon peace deal that delineates the border of Israel, establishes that the territory within that border is part of the State of Israel with no Palestinian claims upon it, while also establishing that all the territory outside that border is not part of the State of Israel and dissolves all Israeli claims to it.

2) Withdraw Israeli forces to the Israel side of the border.

Occupation over.

Oh, and it would be helpful if Israelis acknowledged that their State was carved out of Palestine, but that's not necessary.

And how do you do #1? The Palestinians won't accept the existence of Israel.

They've ALREADY accepted the existence of Israel. The EXISTENCE of Israel is a fact they already know they cannot change, and it's not like they're pretending it doesn't exist for some reason.

What they're declined to acknowledge was "Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State" which at this point is basically irrelevant to the negotiations.

And this is Abbas we're talking about, not Haniyeh. Establishing 1967 border has been his basic position since day 1.

 

[arkirk]

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17608

How? Abbas says that all of Israel is occupied.

It is all land seized by force by Zionists. The criminal continued grabbing of Arab lands...and demolition of arab homes etc. is on the word of their new godfather Netanyahu intended to eventually take the whole thing from the Arabs and do what Netanyahu has accused the Arabs of doing to Israel...driving them out.

I have always wondered about your connection to these usurpers, these murderers, these thugs, who run Israel today and threaten the entire area with nuclear weapons. Why are you so permanently allied to this bunch of fanatical religious land grabbers? I cannot understand you and have frankly given up trying.

 

[untermensche]

When borders are settled and blockades are removed the occupation ends and sovereignty begins.

 

[Jayjay]

Peace seems rather unlikely at the moment. The complete opposite could be true, Israel could just push all the Palestinians out of West Bank and annex it in its entirety at some point. That's one way to end the occupation.

 

[untermensche]

Peace seems rather unlikely at the moment. The complete opposite could be true, Israel could just push all the Palestinians out of West Bank and annex it in its entirety at some point. That's one way to end the occupation.

That's what Israel has been doing for the past almost 50 years.

Throwing Palestinians off land and taking it.

When these Palestinians complain who hears them?

 

[Jayjay]

Peace seems rather unlikely at the moment. The complete opposite could be true, Israel could just push all the Palestinians out of West Bank and annex it in its entirety at some point. That's one way to end the occupation.

That's what Israel has been doing for the past almost 50 years.

Throwing Palestinians off land and taking it.

When these Palestinians complain who hears them?

Nobody. That's why Israel could get away with it. A few more million refugees added to the existing 5 million would cause a backlash, but based on what has happened in the past, that would be easy for Israel to ignore.

 

[untermensche]

That's what Israel has been doing for the past almost 50 years.

Throwing Palestinians off land and taking it.

When these Palestinians complain who hears them?

Nobody. That's why Israel could get away with it. A few more million refugees added to the existing 5 million would cause a backlash, but based on what has happened in the past, that would be easy for Israel to ignore.

Israel gets away with it because the US protects it at the UN.

Israel is very similar to the US.

The US had an indigenous population it didn't like either.

And claimed it was just protecting itself from terrorism as it carried out genocide.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And how do you do #1? The Palestinians won't accept the existence of Israel.

They've ALREADY accepted the existence of Israel. The EXISTENCE of Israel is a fact they already know they cannot change, and it's not like they're pretending it doesn't exist for some reason.

What they're declined to acknowledge was "Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State" which at this point is basically irrelevant to the negotiations.

And this is Abbas we're talking about, not Haniyeh. Establishing 1967 border has been his basic position since day 1.

One of the sticking points is their unwillingness to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.

As for Abbas--he wants 67 borders, right of return to full effect and no acceptance of Israel's right to exist. That's not a meaningful offer.

 

[Harry Bosch]

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=17608

How? Abbas says that all of Israel is occupied.

It is all land seized by force by Zionists. The criminal continued grabbing of Arab lands...and demolition of arab homes etc. is on the word of their new godfather Netanyahu intended to eventually take the whole thing from the Arabs and do what Netanyahu has accused the Arabs of doing to Israel...driving them out.

I have always wondered about your connection to these usurpers, these murderers, these thugs, who run Israel today and threaten the entire area with nuclear weapons. Why are you so permanently allied to this bunch of fanatical religious land grabbers? I cannot understand you and have frankly given up trying.

So you agree then that no compromise is possible?

 

[Arctish]

They've ALREADY accepted the existence of Israel. The EXISTENCE of Israel is a fact they already know they cannot change, and it's not like they're pretending it doesn't exist for some reason.

What they're declined to acknowledge was "Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State" which at this point is basically irrelevant to the negotiations.

And this is Abbas we're talking about, not Haniyeh. Establishing 1967 border has been his basic position since day 1.

One of the sticking points is their unwillingness to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.

One of the sticking points is the deep dishonesty of Zionists and their apologists who refuse to admit that the Palestinians acknowledged Israel's right to exist a generation ago.

As for Abbas--he wants 67 borders, right of return to full effect and no acceptance of Israel's right to exist. That's not a meaningful offer.

Not true.

Abbas wants 1967 borders to be the starting point for negotiated land swaps, Right of Return in principle with a token return of elderly refugees, and was the principal Palestinian diplomat involved in the PLO's formal recognition of Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One of the sticking points is their unwillingness to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.

One of the sticking points is the deep dishonesty of Zionists and their apologists who refuse to admit that the Palestinians acknowledged Israel's right to exist a generation ago.

As for Abbas--he wants 67 borders, right of return to full effect and no acceptance of Israel's right to exist. That's not a meaningful offer.

Not true.

Abbas wants 1967 borders to be the starting point for negotiated land swaps, Right of Return in principle with a token return of elderly refugees, and was the principal Palestinian diplomat involved in the PLO's formal recognition of Israel.

1) Continuing to repeat the claim that they acknowledged Israel doesn't make it so. They said they would, they didn't actually do so.

2) Abbas has rejected land swaps.

3) For Abbas to attempt to negotiate an agreement that involved a token right of return would be treason. And where's the claim he's trying this??? The only thing I've heard on this is that he doesn't consider it something that he can negotiate, but rather a decision for the people. (And they're certainly not going to budge on it given how much propaganda they have been subjected to that it's their winning move.)

 

[Ford]

The US had an indigenous population it didn't like either.

And claimed it was just protecting itself from terrorism as it carried out genocide.

Maybe we should start referring to Gaza as the "Palestinian Reservation."


Except of course, Israel would never let them build casinos.