Erase men from your lives: this week in feminism

[ruby sparks]

Why would you hope for that? Just sort of general misogyny?

Pretty much. Obviously he feels all feminism is wrong, and the louder the whackadoodles get, the more people like Meta can pretend all the ideas are whack, to marginalize them.

It seems he has no logical retort to mainstream feminism and must plagiarize the fringes, to have women fight women.

Thing sounds like a hammer hitting the head of a nail pretty well.

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

 

[laughing dog]

Why would you hope for that? Just sort of general misogyny?

Pretty much. Obviously he feels all feminism is wrong, and the louder the whackadoodles get, the more people like Meta can pretend all the ideas are whack, to marginalize them.

It seems he has no logical retort to mainstream feminism and must plagiarize the fringes, to have women fight women.

Thing sounds like a hammer hitting the head of a nail pretty well.

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

When one factors in that there are no OPs about anything a man says or does that is stupid, then ......?

 

[Metaphor]

Thing sounds like a hammer hitting the head of a nail pretty well.

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

When one factors in that there are no OPs about anything a man says or does that is stupid, then ......?

You mean like about Eisgruber at Princeton, the SJW airheads at University of Southern California, or every member of every royal family ever?

But, even if it were true that I only posted about feminist lunacy, so what? Being anti-feminist is not being anti-woman. Indeed, it's deeply ironic that I have to answer that charge. Feminism's purchase on the culture is so deep that people believe 'anti-feminist' does equate to 'anti-woman'.

 

[laughing dog]

Thing sounds like a hammer hitting the head of a nail pretty well.

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

When one factors in that there are no OPs about anything a man says or does that is stupid, then ......?

You mean like about Eisgruber at Princeton, the SJW airheads at University of Southern California, or every member of every royal family ever?

But, even if it were true that I only posted about feminist lunacy, so what? Being anti-feminist is not being anti-woman. Indeed, it's deeply ironic that I have to answer that charge. Feminism's purchase on the culture is so deep that people believe 'anti-feminist' does equate to 'anti-woman'.

Sure Jan.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

I suppose that depends on which version of Feministicism is being opposed.
If it's anti-[the 'women are people, too, and deserve as much rights, resoect, and orivilege as men' movement], then that would pretty much be misogyny.
If it's anti-[the caricature exaggerations of mainstream feminism as militant female-superiority at the cost of men's freedoms movement]...wouldn't framing feminism that way be misogyny, too?

 

[Politesse]

Why would you hope for that? Just sort of general misogyny?

No. What have I said that is misogynistic?

Praying for the failure of mainstream feminism.

 

[Politesse]

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

I suppose that depends on which version of Feministicism is being opposed.
If it's anti-[the 'women are people, too, and deserve as much rights, resoect, and orivilege as men' movement], then that would pretty much be misogyny.
If it's anti-[the caricature exaggerations of mainstream feminism as militant female-superiority at the cost of men's freedoms movement]...wouldn't framing feminism that way be misogyny, too?

He specifically made it clear that he was hoping mainstream feminism would suffer due to the reputation of radical feminism. I do not see how we can interpret that as anything other than the first of your options, as it is clear from the dichotomy that he recognizes these as different groups and wants both to fail together.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well done, Metaphor.

You have unearthed another silly thing that someone has said.

Though as silly as it is, for the reasons that you point out, maybe women should be consciously discriminating in favour of other women, just for 50 years or so, as a way of correcting the economic imbalances that you see no reason to acknowledge.

Women and men already do it. Universities already do it. Corporations already do it. Discriminating in favour of women is not a radical idea. It's so mainstream people proudly admit to doing it.

It's a bit closer to radical to exclude all male forms of creation from your life, but if you hatred boner for men is that hard, it isn't any skin off my nose. She's simply impoverishing herself.

Pretending the loons are representative is counterproductive in addressing the actual discrimination issue. All you actually do is discredit yourself. Loons only matter when they're in positions of power, not merely vocal.

 

[TomC]

Why would you hope for that? Just sort of general misogyny?

Pretty much. Obviously he feels all feminism is wrong, and the louder the whackadoodles get, the more people like Meta can pretend all the ideas are whack, to marginalize them.

It seems he has no logical retort to mainstream feminism and must plagiarize the fringes, to have women fight women.

Yes, broad brushing is fun! You can make all positions of a political or social spectrum mute if you can just keep pointing out the extreme points of view on the spectrum!

But some positions are easier to broadbrush than others. Because some ideological positions encourage extreme views, feminism is one of many.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, broad brushing is fun! You can make all positions of a political or social spectrum mute if you can just keep pointing out the extreme points of view on the spectrum!

But some positions are easier to broadbrush than others. Because some ideological positions encourage extreme views, feminism is one of many.
Tom

Feminism is no different from any other thing that can be taken too far.

Feminism suffers from the problem of things having improved for women since the 1920s, therefore a bunch of males think the women should just shut up and be happy. Heck, we couldn't have a female protagonist in Star Wars without the Metaphors of the world losing their shit.

There is a non-negligible percentage of people that think, if it isn't inertial (therefore white and male), it has to be pandering to feminists.

 

[ruby sparks]

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

I suppose that depends on which version of Feministicism is being opposed.
If it's anti-[the 'women are people, too, and deserve as much rights, resoect, and orivilege as men' movement], then that would pretty much be misogyny.
If it's anti-[the caricature exaggerations of mainstream feminism as militant female-superiority at the cost of men's freedoms movement]...wouldn't framing feminism that way be misogyny, too?

I can't mind read but I don't think metaphor is doing the first one and I've never seen him say anything that would suggest it. I don't think the second would, imo, be misogyny. I guess it could be in some ways or in some cases on the part of some people. But of itself it would merely be anti-feminism.

Plus, there are probably more than 2 options. For example, metaphor might be fine with some feminists. I have known some anti-feminists who are, who are essentially anti-most feminism. There are, for example, some self-identifying women feminists who are at pains to consider and take seriously men's issues. Some of them have sons. That last bit is only half-serious, but there is evidence that the sex of a woman's children influences her gender political leanings. Mothers, eh?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Plus, there are probably more than 2 options and I'm not about to let you oppress me by only giving me 2.

so...do you HAVE. A third? Or just want a third?

 

[starwater]

Well, this is definitely worth worrying about! Radical that is feminist has radical ideas on feminism.

I'm not worried about it. In fact, I hope more feminists make their whackadoodle fringe musings publically known. It will bring disrepute to mainstream feminism.

Yes indeed you are worried if you have to make a post about it.

 

[ruby sparks]

Plus, there are probably more than 2 options and I'm not about to let you oppress me by only giving me 2.

so...do you HAVE. A third? Or just want a third?

Sorry. I did my usual late editing again.

I added:

"For example, metaphor might be fine with some feminists. I have known some anti-feminists who are, who are essentially anti-most feminism. There are, for example, some self-identifying women feminists who are at pains to consider and take seriously men's issues. Some of them have sons. That last bit is only half-serious, but there is evidence that the sex of a woman's children influences her gender political leanings. Mothers, eh?"

And I took out the part about being oppressed.

 

[Toni]

Anti-feminism is one example of misogyny. It is not the only example of misogyny but it certainly is an example of misogyny.

Looking at a different issue might help. There are those who insist that they are not racist, that they have black friends as a common piece of evidence that they are not racist. What they mean is that they like black people who don't make trouble, who are employed but not at levels higher than white people, that they are educated but not above their stations, that they don't do something so bold as to buy in the wrong neighborhood or attend the wrong school or attend a school where ANY white (preferably male) student was denied admission. That they do not express anything other than gratitude for being allowed to participate in white society to whatever extent that white society allows them to participate. They should not marry white women or have mixed babies. Preferably they should only have similarly docile, obedient, compliant children, no more than two and none of whom should have any physical or intellectual disabilities and of course no mental illnesses because let's face it: white people have enough problems acknowledging and coping with mental illness of nice white people. Above all, black people should not ever, ever appear angry or dissatisfied. They should not grow taller than the average white child for their age nor appear more sexually developed than the average white child for their age. They are allowed to be musicians, and athletes as well as domestic and physical labor workers. They can be actors in some limited roles that are written specifically for black people. They should always remember their place and not aspire to teach in white schools or to become doctors, lawyers, POTUS, or writers or politicians. Those jobs should be left to their betters. Feel free to substitute whatever racial demographic you would like, making whatever small changes necessary. Asians can be engineers and maybe scientists and professors, for example. Or violinists or pianists if they stick to classical music. I'm not sure what Hispanics are allowed to be aside from working in the restaurant industry, agriculture or some construction jobs.. This kind of not racist is perfectly happy to accept people of any race so long as they don't make them uncomfortable in any way, shape or form.

Or: Gay people are fine so long as they don't want to marry each other or have children with each other or live next door.

Anti-feminists are exactly this kind of not misogynists.


Feminism includes advocating for men's rights as well as women's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes. I would argue that it includes ALL sexes/genders/gender identities. I believe that most feminists would agree.

Of course there are more radical feminists. There are more radical racists as well than the common, everyday kind of racist you might run into at the grocery store or Walmart or at church or on a public free thought forum. Not all racists wear white hoods or beer bellies.

 

[ruby sparks]

Anti-feminism is one example of misogyny. It is not the only example of misogyny but it certainly is an example of misogyny.

It's a good thing there are no women anti-feminists then. The last thing we need is even more misogyny.

 

[Angry Floof]

Don't be scared, Metaphor. Everything is fine.

 

[Jarhyn]

It's a good thing there are no women anti-feminists then. The last thing we need is even more misogyny.

You sure? Pretty sure ACB is an anti-feminist. As to whether she is actually a woman or just an alien fungus in a woman shaped human suit is up for debate.

 

[ruby sparks]

It's a good thing there are no women anti-feminists then. The last thing we need is even more misogyny.

You sure? Pretty sure ACB is an anti-feminist. As to whether she is actually a woman or just an alien fungus in a woman shaped human suit is up for debate.

I was kidding. Maybe you know that and are not being serious either. Who is ACB?

 

[ruby sparks]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

Personally, and in all seriousness, I think they go too far. But the point is there are some women anti-feminists, and many more who are merely critical, and many more again who don't want to be feminists (apparently, most women don't self identify as feminists). So no, anti-feminism obviously does not necessarily mean misogyny.