Erase men from your lives: this week in feminism

[Toni]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

 

[ruby sparks]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Other than giving me the opportunity to read that only 18% of Americans and 7% of Britons reportedly self-identify as feminists, I have no idea why you pointed me to that page.

My point is that contrary to what you said, anti-feminism obviously does not necessarily mean misogyny. I do get that it's one of your favourite allegations though.

In my opinion the 7% & 18% figures are a bit low as estimates.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

Personally, and in all seriousness, I think they go too far. But the point is there are some women anti-feminists, and many more who are merely critical, and many more again who don't want to be feminists (apparently, most women don't self identify as feminists). So no, anti-feminism obviously does not necessarily mean misogyny.

When put in context, sure. Repeatedly trying to broad brush an entire movement with the ideas of some radicals... that becomes a pattern.

 

[ruby sparks]

When put in context, sure. Repeatedly trying to broad brush an entire movement with the ideas of some radicals... that becomes a pattern.

I agree.

 

[laughing dog]

It's a good thing there are no women anti-feminists then. The last thing we need is even more misogyny.

You sure? Pretty sure ACB is an anti-feminist. As to whether she is actually a woman or just an alien fungus in a woman shaped human suit is up for debate.

I was kidding. Maybe you know that and are not being serious either. Who is ACB?

ACB is the US's newest Supreme Court Justice - Amy Coney Barrett.

 

[Toni]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Other than giving me the opportunity to read that only 18% of Americans and 7% of Britons reportedly self-identify as feminists, I have no idea why you pointed me to that page.

My point is that contrary to what you said, anti-feminism obviously does not necessarily mean misogyny. I do get that it's one of your favourite allegations though.

In my opinion the 7% & 18% figures are a bit low as estimates.

You are free to be as obtuse and as wrong as you like.

One of my former bosses was fond of saying that you could lead someone to knowledge but you could not make them think. She was right.

 

[Metaphor]

Why would you hope for that? Just sort of general misogyny?

No. What have I said that is misogynistic?

Praying for the failure of mainstream feminism.

Since I believe mainstream feminism harms men and women, I think it would help humanity for it to end.

Also, I'm not praying for it. Prayer is for religious people.

 

[Metaphor]

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

I suppose that depends on which version of Feministicism is being opposed.
If it's anti-[the 'women are people, too, and deserve as much rights, resoect, and orivilege as men' movement], then that would pretty much be misogyny.
If it's anti-[the caricature exaggerations of mainstream feminism as militant female-superiority at the cost of men's freedoms movement]...wouldn't framing feminism that way be misogyny, too?

I reject feminism because it, like all religions, has a false foundation: patriarchy theory.

 

[Metaphor]

"...they [Women Against Feminism] say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs."

Stop Fem-Splaining: What 'Women Against Feminism' Gets Right.
https://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/

It is not clear how the patriarchy managed to brainwash them.

Personally, and in all seriousness, I think they go too far. But the point is there are some women anti-feminists, and many more who are merely critical, and many more again who don't want to be feminists (apparently, most women don't self identify as feminists). So no, anti-feminism obviously does not necessarily mean misogyny.

When put in context, sure. Repeatedly trying to broad brush an entire movement with the ideas of some radicals... that becomes a pattern.

Like when people call incels mass murderers?

 

[Metaphor]

Anti-feminism is one example of misogyny. It is not the only example of misogyny but it certainly is an example of misogyny.

Looking at a different issue might help. There are those who insist that they are not racist, that they have black friends as a common piece of evidence that they are not racist. What they mean is that they like black people who don't make trouble, who are employed but not at levels higher than white people, that they are educated but not above their stations, that they don't do something so bold as to buy in the wrong neighborhood or attend the wrong school or attend a school where ANY white (preferably male) student was denied admission. That they do not express anything other than gratitude for being allowed to participate in white society to whatever extent that white society allows them to participate. They should not marry white women or have mixed babies. Preferably they should only have similarly docile, obedient, compliant children, no more than two and none of whom should have any physical or intellectual disabilities and of course no mental illnesses because let's face it: white people have enough problems acknowledging and coping with mental illness of nice white people. Above all, black people should not ever, ever appear angry or dissatisfied. They should not grow taller than the average white child for their age nor appear more sexually developed than the average white child for their age. They are allowed to be musicians, and athletes as well as domestic and physical labor workers. They can be actors in some limited roles that are written specifically for black people. They should always remember their place and not aspire to teach in white schools or to become doctors, lawyers, POTUS, or writers or politicians. Those jobs should be left to their betters. Feel free to substitute whatever racial demographic you would like, making whatever small changes necessary. Asians can be engineers and maybe scientists and professors, for example. Or violinists or pianists if they stick to classical music. I'm not sure what Hispanics are allowed to be aside from working in the restaurant industry, agriculture or some construction jobs.. This kind of not racist is perfectly happy to accept people of any race so long as they don't make them uncomfortable in any way, shape or form.

Or: Gay people are fine so long as they don't want to marry each other or have children with each other or live next door.

Anti-feminists are exactly this kind of not misogynists.

I didn't realise 'feminism' was a race or sexual orientation. Is feminism congenital? If I did 23andme, might I discover a fourth cousin with feminism?

Feminism includes advocating for men's rights as well as women's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes. I would argue that it includes ALL sexes/genders/gender identities. I believe that most feminists would agree.

Men's rights and women's rights can be advocated without feminism. Rejecting feminism is not rejecting men's rights or women's rights.

Of course there are more radical feminists. There are more radical racists as well than the common, everyday kind of racist you might run into at the grocery store or Walmart or at church or on a public free thought forum. Not all racists wear white hoods or beer bellies.

Oh, I see. Feminists are like racists.

 

[Metaphor]

Well done, Metaphor.

You have unearthed another silly thing that someone has said.

Though as silly as it is, for the reasons that you point out, maybe women should be consciously discriminating in favour of other women, just for 50 years or so, as a way of correcting the economic imbalances that you see no reason to acknowledge.

Women and men already do it. Universities already do it. Corporations already do it. Discriminating in favour of women is not a radical idea. It's so mainstream people proudly admit to doing it.

It's a bit closer to radical to exclude all male forms of creation from your life, but if you hatred boner for men is that hard, it isn't any skin off my nose. She's simply impoverishing herself.

Pretending the loons are representative is counterproductive in addressing the actual discrimination issue. All you actually do is discredit yourself. Loons only matter when they're in positions of power, not merely vocal.

I didn't pretend she was representative. I very clearly called her 'fringe'. It's in my OP.

But Coffin is indeed in a position of power, the actual kind of formal political power that feminists count as real power. Of course, there are other kinds of informal power.

 

[Metaphor]

Anti-feminism, but not misogyny. Feminismogyny possibly.

I suppose that depends on which version of Feministicism is being opposed.
If it's anti-[the 'women are people, too, and deserve as much rights, resoect, and orivilege as men' movement], then that would pretty much be misogyny.
If it's anti-[the caricature exaggerations of mainstream feminism as militant female-superiority at the cost of men's freedoms movement]...wouldn't framing feminism that way be misogyny, too?

He specifically made it clear that he was hoping mainstream feminism would suffer due to the reputation of radical feminism. I do not see how we can interpret that as anything other than the first of your options, as it is clear from the dichotomy that he recognizes these as different groups and wants both to fail together.

Radical Islamists and mainstream Muslims are different groups, though built from the same false foundation. It would be good if all religion ended. Indeed, every single person who walks away from Islam because of the actions of radicals is a plus to them and the world.

 

[Angry Floof]

Metaphor, it's clear you have no idea what feminism is. Your understanding is about the same level of understanding as anti-science zealots' understanding of what science is. They'll insist that it's an ideology just like religion only with opposing tenets, and they'll spend a lot of time and effort looking for confirmation of that misunderstanding.

What are you afraid of or defending with all these testerical threads and posts you make regarding feminism?

 

[Toni]

I didn't realise 'feminism' was a race or sexual orientation. Is feminism congenital? If I did 23andme, might I discover a fourth cousin with feminism?

Case in point, proving my former boss correct.

Men's rights and women's rights can be advocated without feminism. Rejecting feminism is not rejecting men's rights or women's rights.

Advocating for equal rights of women and men is feminism.

 

[Metaphor]

Feminism suffers from the problem of things having improved for women since the 1920s, therefore a bunch of males think the women should just shut up and be happy. Heck, we couldn't have a female protagonist in Star Wars without the Metaphors of the world losing their shit.

Have all the Mary Sues in your franchise that you like. I am not interested in Star Wars and I never have been. I started watching the first one in the 1990s at a friend's insistence, and turned it off after an hour. I assure you I won't lose my shit.

 

[Metaphor]

Advocating for equal rights of women and men is feminism.

Ah, so you're the kind of religionist who insists there are no atheists. Atheists are just the kind of people who want to get away with sin, and they know, deep down, there's a god.

Men and women have equal rights in Australia, except where women and girls have more rights than men and boys. For example, women have never been drafted in Australia, and female genital mutilation is banned in Australia.

I advocate for equal rights. You can label me a feminist if you'd like. I'm not going to the meetings, though.

 

[Metaphor]

Metaphor, it's clear you have no idea what feminism is. Your understanding is about the same level of understanding as anti-science zealots' understanding of what science is. They'll insist that it's an ideology just like religion only with opposing tenets, and they'll spend a lot of time and effort looking for confirmation of that misunderstanding.

What have I said that makes it 'clear' that I have 'no idea' what feminism is?

What are you afraid of or defending with all these testerical threads and posts you make regarding feminism?

Feminism is built on a false foundation and it wastes resources and tramples over free choice because of its false foundations.

For example, one false foundation is that, but for societal influence, girls and boys would have more or less equal interests, skills, abilities, and goals. That's a pillar of faith of feminism. And there isn't an iota of evidence to support it. In Sweden, they're trying to force interests on children who don't have them, in the name of gender equality. One feminist primary school teacher took away lego blocks for the boys, because the girls were not playing with them as much.

For fuck's sake, let children choose what they want for themselves. Stop trying to force things on them.

 

[Angry Floof]

Metaphor, it's clear you have no idea what feminism is. Your understanding is about the same level of understanding as anti-science zealots' understanding of what science is. They'll insist that it's an ideology just like religion only with opposing tenets, and they'll spend a lot of time and effort looking for confirmation of that misunderstanding.

What have I said that makes it 'clear' that I have 'no idea' what feminism is?

What are you afraid of or defending with all these testerical threads and posts you make regarding feminism?

Feminism is built on a false foundation and it wastes resources and tramples over free choice because of its false foundations.

For example, one false foundation is that, but for societal influence, girls and boys would have more or less equal interests, skills, abilities, and goals. That's a pillar of faith of feminism. And there isn't an iota of evidence to support it. In Sweden, they're trying to force interests on children who don't have them, in the name of gender equality. One feminist primary school teacher took away lego blocks for the boys, because the girls were not playing with them as much.

For fuck's sake, let children choose what they want for themselves. Stop trying to force things on them.

Well, you'd have to be able to comprehend the world beyond the end of your own nose and recognize what's personal and what's not, and then maybe you'd have the maturity to understand that continuing to avoid recognition and accountability for violence and sexism doesn't actually benefit men, and you'd maybe figure out that feminism doesn't hurt anyone, especially men, and in fact, it seeks to free you from some of the more inhumane and harmful attitudes about men that impede your emotional maturity and offer you little incentive to be compassionate, sensitive adults instead of posturing, insecure manchildren with the urge to dominate and conquer, as if you're a bunch of juvenile gorillas instead of grown up human men.

Also, there is NO "foundation" of feminism that girls and boys have equal interests. Did you just pull this out of your own ass or did you get it from whatever incel man cave you get your opinions from?

 

[Metaphor]

What have I said that makes it 'clear' that I have 'no idea' what feminism is?



Feminism is built on a false foundation and it wastes resources and tramples over free choice because of its false foundations.

For example, one false foundation is that, but for societal influence, girls and boys would have more or less equal interests, skills, abilities, and goals. That's a pillar of faith of feminism. And there isn't an iota of evidence to support it. In Sweden, they're trying to force interests on children who don't have them, in the name of gender equality. One feminist primary school teacher took away lego blocks for the boys, because the girls were not playing with them as much.

For fuck's sake, let children choose what they want for themselves. Stop trying to force things on them.

Well, you'd have to be able to comprehend the world beyond the end of your own nose and recognize what's personal and what's not, and then maybe you'd have the maturity to understand that continuing to avoid recognition and accountability for violence and sexism doesn't actually benefit men, and you'd maybe figure out that feminism doesn't hurt anyone, especially men, and in fact, it seeks to free you from some of the more inhumane and harmful attitudes about men that impede your emotional maturity and offer you little incentive to be compassionate, sensitive adults instead of posturing, insecure manchildren with the urge to dominate and conquer, as if you're a bunch of juvenile gorillas instead of grown up human men.

Thanks for revealing your attitude towards men.

 

[Angry Floof]

What have I said that makes it 'clear' that I have 'no idea' what feminism is?



Feminism is built on a false foundation and it wastes resources and tramples over free choice because of its false foundations.

For example, one false foundation is that, but for societal influence, girls and boys would have more or less equal interests, skills, abilities, and goals. That's a pillar of faith of feminism. And there isn't an iota of evidence to support it. In Sweden, they're trying to force interests on children who don't have them, in the name of gender equality. One feminist primary school teacher took away lego blocks for the boys, because the girls were not playing with them as much.

For fuck's sake, let children choose what they want for themselves. Stop trying to force things on them.

Well, you'd have to be able to comprehend the world beyond the end of your own nose and recognize what's personal and what's not, and then maybe you'd have the maturity to understand that continuing to avoid recognition and accountability for violence and sexism doesn't actually benefit men, and you'd maybe figure out that feminism doesn't hurt anyone, especially men, and in fact, it seeks to free you from some of the more inhumane and harmful attitudes about men that impede your emotional maturity and offer you little incentive to be compassionate, sensitive adults instead of posturing, insecure manchildren with the urge to dominate and conquer, as if you're a bunch of juvenile gorillas instead of grown up human men.

Thanks for revealing your attitude towards men.

That is not true and you damn well know it. Can you read, Metaphor? Do you just let your eyes glaze over when someone who challenges your bullshit ideology responds to you? Those attitudes that encourage and enable men to be emotionally stunted baboons are part and parcel to patriarchy and authoritarian religion. MY attitude toward men is that they can and should be as emotional or as gentle or as feminine (by anyone's god damn definition of such) as they damn well please without the bullying morons patriarchal culture has produced abusing them for it.

You're all cucks to each other. Do you realize that? All you right wing authoritarian males just want to please and get the approval of other men. Grow the fuck up already.