"evil" one percent capitalists that you admire?

[untermensche]

This MIRL qualification is stupid as well. I admire Tom Robbins, because of his writings, but I've never met him personally. Is it childish to admire Martin Luther King or Gandhi? The only childish thing are those of you who did your best to completely destroy this tread.

It is a philosophical and moral question.

What things do we admire and why?

Some guy invents a car most people can't possibly afford.

He has helped a few rich people feel better about themselves, not much more.

 

[ideologyhunter]

If only for being utterly honest: Jack Donaghy.

 

[Derec]

\
Some guy invents a car most people can't possibly afford.

Most automotive technology debuted in cars most people could not possibly afford, before it diffused downward. So why should electric propulsion be any different? The planned new Tesla model will be more affordable.

 

[untermensche]

Some guy invents a car most people can't possibly afford.

Most automotive technology debuted in cars most people could not possibly afford, before it diffused downward. So why should electric propulsion be any different? The planned new Tesla model will be more affordable.

I think any effort to move away from the internal combustion engine and all it entails is a good effort.

I think the government should be doing a lot of basic research to help in this effort.

And a guy who has a mind for engineering and self promotion is interesting.

He can't do much on his own however. His whole "team" is making the cars, not simply him.

 

[fromderinside]

He can't do much on his own however. His whole "team" is making the cars, not simply him.

Really? A man has a concept, novel engineering and manufacturing concepts and some money. He gathers a like minded set of people around him and they choose engineers and designers and manufacturers to carry out this dream. That is a major impact in my book.

 

[ksen]

He can't do much on his own however. His whole "team" is making the cars, not simply him.

Really? A man has a concept, novel engineering and manufacturing concepts and some money. He gathers a like minded set of people around him and they choose engineers and designers and manufacturers to carry out this dream. That is a major impact in my book.

A major impact that will go nowhere without other people to help him out.

Which is kind of unter's point.

 

[untermensche]

He can't do much on his own however. His whole "team" is making the cars, not simply him.

Really? A man has a concept, novel engineering and manufacturing concepts and some money. He gathers a like minded set of people around him and they choose engineers and designers and manufacturers to carry out this dream. That is a major impact in my book.

It's one way of doing things.

But it wasn't the way we did things with something like computers.

The government did the groundwork, did all the basic research.

We didn't wait for the magic capitalists.

We did the same thing with the jet engine and many other technologies.

These individuals are certainly a little more clever than the average person, but they usually don't push things too far or very fast.

 

[RVonse]

untermensche, I would ask you the same thing I asked airkirk but got no answer. Have you actually seen the video in the OP provided by noblesavage?

 

[RVonse]

These individuals are certainly a little more clever than the average person, but they usually don't push things too far or very fast.

In this case, Musk appears to be pushing things A LOT faster than the current schedule of NASA. Without Musk, NASA was not even hoping for a Mars landing in my lifetime. With Musk, I might see this happen before I die of old age.

Without Musk, I have seen General Motors do just about nothing with electric cars during my lifetime. 10 years ago nobody would have known what a charging station even was. With Musk, electrics have a good chance to become practical with in 10 years. If men can go places without burning gas, then that is 1 less problem to worry about humans going extinct.

 

[fromderinside]

Really? A man has a concept, novel engineering and manufacturing concepts and some money. He gathers a like minded set of people around him and they choose engineers and designers and manufacturers to carry out this dream. That is a major impact in my book.

It's one way of doing things.

But it wasn't the way we did things with something like computers.

The government did the groundwork, did all the basic research.

We didn't wait for the magic capitalists.

We did the same thing with the jet engine and many other technologies.

These individuals are certainly a little more clever than the average person, but they usually don't push things too far or very fast.

OK so I forgot to mention that the government was behind battery development for the pas 40 years at least, that US government finally required and lead business to design intelligently, to demand quality and end product support, and it was the government that opened the doors for technologies such as those used for Paypal, Space X, and Tesla. Yes it was Musk that took advantage of all those gifts. It was Musk who found ways to exploit them profitably. For that we should thank him and we should thank him for knowing that government is useful.

OK?

 

[NobleSavage]

It's one way of doing things.

But it wasn't the way we did things with something like computers.

The government did the groundwork, did all the basic research.

We didn't wait for the magic capitalists.

We did the same thing with the jet engine and many other technologies.

These individuals are certainly a little more clever than the average person, but they usually don't push things too far or very fast.

OK so I forgot to mention that the government was behind battery development for the pas 40 years at least, that US government finally required and lead business to design intelligently, to demand quality and end product support, and it was the government that opened the doors for technologies such as those used for Paypal, Space X, and Tesla. Yes it was Musk that took advantage of all those gifts. It was Musk who found ways to exploit them profitably. For that we should thank him and we should thank him for knowing that government is useful.

OK?

This is really a stupid debate. If you look into any of this stuff it's usually 50/50.

 

[fromderinside]

OK so I forgot to mention that the government was behind battery development for the pas 40 years at least, that US government finally required and lead business to design intelligently, to demand quality and end product support, and it was the government that opened the doors for technologies such as those used for Paypal, Space X, and Tesla. Yes it was Musk that took advantage of all those gifts. It was Musk who found ways to exploit them profitably. For that we should thank him and we should thank him for knowing that government is useful.

OK?

This is really a stupid debate. If you look into any of this stuff it's usually 50/50.

No its not. All institutions derive from authority. Musk is a great 1% because he found ways to exploit institutional intentions. He's no where near 50%. He's a 1% in wealth and he's 1% in solutions, use of the 99% government intention.

 

[untermensche]

It's one way of doing things.

But it wasn't the way we did things with something like computers.

The government did the groundwork, did all the basic research.

We didn't wait for the magic capitalists.

We did the same thing with the jet engine and many other technologies.

These individuals are certainly a little more clever than the average person, but they usually don't push things too far or very fast.

OK so I forgot to mention that the government was behind battery development for the pas 40 years at least, that US government finally required and lead business to design intelligently, to demand quality and end product support, and it was the government that opened the doors for technologies such as those used for Paypal, Space X, and Tesla. Yes it was Musk that took advantage of all those gifts. It was Musk who found ways to exploit them profitably. For that we should thank him and we should thank him for knowing that government is useful.

OK?

Since the government uses energy it is going to spend some money on developing alternative energy sources.

Not as much as it would spend if the government were not controlled by the oil corporations however.

The plan of the oil corporations is to extract and sell every drop of oil before any alternative energy sources are developed.

Of course by then we will have much less energy to do it with. But what do they care.

 

[fromderinside]

Not as much as it would spend if the government were not controlled by the oil corporations however.

Well there you go. Governments. Damned if they control too much damned if they don't.

 

[untermensche]

Not as much as it would spend if the government were not controlled by the oil corporations however.

Well there you go. Governments. Damned if they control too much damned if they don't.

The government always has control.

What matters are the forces controlling the government and why.

 

[NobleSavage]

This is really a stupid debate. If you look into any of this stuff it's usually 50/50.

No its not. All institutions derive from authority. Musk is a great 1% because he found ways to exploit institutional intentions. He's no where near 50%. He's a 1% in wealth and he's 1% in solutions, use of the 99% government intention.

No, 50% of research dollars are usually private and 50% is public. Research labs at universities often get private money. Private research institutions often get government money. It's so intertwined I don't think it's possible to make a good calculation.

If Elon Musk took his ideas to a government committee they would have said "no". Elon, "Hey guys give me $100 million so I can do something better than NASA." Committee Chair, "Get this nut out of here."

Most researchers and engineers want a steady paycheck and to geek out. They don't want to be the face of a company. I know one personally who works at Ford. He get's over 100K a year, nice vacations, good health care, and tons of perks. Would he want to run a company, no way in hell. He even went into management for a while and hated it. Yes, some of these CEO types are motivated by power, money, and prestige, but a lot of them really have an interest in money only to the extent that they can create something that doesn't exist. Elon has already agreed to donate most of his fortune to charity. He is part of The Giving Pledge (http://givingpledge.org/) You should read up on it.

I know you are smart enough to see the flaws in your own logic. So instead of coming back with another argument, do something really impressive. Find a "one percent capitalist" that resonates with you and who you just might be able to tolerate and some day like, then post. Skip the Forbes list. Skip the famous ones.

.

 

[untermensche]

If Elon Musk took his ideas to a government committee they would have said "no". Elon, "Hey guys give me $100 million so I can do something better than NASA." Committee Chair, "Get this nut out of here."

Not necessarily true.

If he could have sold it as a potential weapons system he may have gotten more.

Nobody doubts there are stupid people in government.

But the people at IBM couldn't see the value in software which allowed Microsoft to exist. There are stupid people in the business world too.