exceptionally unsettling fundy experience

[masterpeastheater]

So there's a fundy preacher I've met twice in two very different places/contexts( a "small world" coincidence), despite now being far
from the fundy milieu myself. I've been perusing his blog. The shit he says is unsettling. More unsettling than the shit most other fundies say.
What makes it even more unsettling is that his writing and speaking style are actually very calm and coherent, no rantin'
and ravin.' Also, there's his seemingly quite friendly and chill demeanor in person, it just makes it even more unsettling.
He maintained his outlook in probably every detail after living for 30 years in one of the most diverse metro areas in the U.S.
and the world. He was also the principal of a (very tight ship) K-12 Christian school for a decade or two I gather. Also unsettling.
The bitch of it is, I cant post links or say his name. If he is as big a creep as I suspect, I don't want him to know who I am.
If he is NOT as big of a creep as I suspect, I don't want to embarrass him. He has a buddy who also contributes to the blog
who says homosexuals should be executed per the usual Old Testament quotes. He has some interesting mannerisms if you catch my drift.
These guys are King Jimmy Only Baptists whose names amazingly do not come up connected to any scandals.

Here are some paraphrases of shit he says:

Why, yes, women do sometimes invite harrassment and assault through their clothing choices.
Rape and harrassment scandals would go away if men and women would just obey the bible and not even hold hands until
their wedding. Men wont be confused about what are wanted and unwanted advances if they obey the bible and just stay
away from women until their wedding.
(Ed. Holy Shit!)

Collective bargaining through unions is sinful because some guys in a parable negotiated their wages on an individual basis.
(Ed. If I wake up tomorrow morning convinced the bible is GODS INFALLIBLE AND INERRANT WORD, I would still find this pretty shaky.
I wonder if this guy is listening to the holy spirit or to Faux Snooze)

No TRUE CHRISTIAN would ever see birth control as a possible means of reducing abortions.
(Ed. The forces of law and religion are all that counts for modifying people's behavior. I guess a TRUE CHRISTIAN could
never see food stamps as a way to reduce the theft of food. Those filthy poors just need to be carted off when they help themselves
in the produce section. I am not endorsing this asshole's belief that abortion is always wrong.)

Alito's opinion overturning Roe was pretty much the most delightful and engaging thing I've ever read outside of the bible.
The LGBT-loving Pro-choicers are actually caving to the dreaded Patriarchy when they use words like "woman".

I'm skeptical of the concept of white privilege because my dad grew up in Wisconsin in the 30's without indoor plumbing.

Conservative Christians have historically been the biggest purveyors of cancel culture, and that was a good thing.

Putin is a horrible dictator but I kinda like how he believes that truth exists and he doesnt give in too much to teh gay and teh trans.

I'm not a fundamentalist because most fundamentalists are not as strict as I am.
(Ed. Yep that totally follows).

Teenagers fornicate because they have had it "pounded into them" (Ed. I am quoting that exact phrase as possibly one of the best freudian slips of all time)
by movies and TV that it will make them happy.


So Hooooowwwww do people born in the past century in the USA become THIS batshit?
And even more puzzling how do a lot of them stay OUT of trouble after they become this batshit?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

People are born with these "batshit" conditions. That's called natural selection. You also don't know what's going on behind those eyeballs. Could be the guy is an even bigger perv who is disgusted with himself, doing a lot of projecting and barely able to maintain acceptable behavior. That would be my guess only because we've seen so much of it with these preachy "high moral" types.

Also don't overlook the fact that it's financially rewarding for him. People actually give him money to be that way.

 

[steve_bank]

I think that friendly face to face demeanor is more condescension than anything else. Especially with evangelicals.

Christian radio and TV is filled with extremes. I sample it from time to time.

If you dig into it it can seem very unsettling, these paople are represented in congress. Their decisns are formed from theology sometimes extreme.

 

[Rhea]

I agree with how unsettling it is to live among people like that. It’s creepy weird and you constantly worry when they’re going to do something immediatey dangerous based on their fears.

 

[Tigers!]

Of course there is the possibility that you might be exceptionally unsettling to some people too.

 

[steve_bank]

Of course there is the possibility that you might be exceptionally unsettling to some people too.

Congressional conservative Christians go on and on about faith and heaving guidance from god, yet oppose obvious hood like universal health care. They are mred in internal bckering and hate speech. Attacking each other.

Pence says he pars for god;s guidance. Yet he refuses to be fortright in calling out Trump as a moral obscnity. Trump who said he shoud be hung.

Christians always claim a moral abslolute form an imagined god on an ancient disjointed tex of unknown authorship. Yet thy are the worse of moral relativism and situational ethics.

Lindsey Graham is morally ambiguous at best.

If that is Christian values and god's guidance I will remain atheist. Christianity as a whoel taken as moral truth is not suppoted by actions.

 

[Learner]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Anyway I can happily converse with fellow forum (atheist) members, coz I don't assume you (plural) to be of the same 'atheistic moral' mind as it is/was for Vladimir Lenin, or supreme leader Kim Jong-un.

Happy days (& holidays)

 

[steve_bank]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Anyway I can happily converse with fellow forum (atheist) members, coz I don't assume you (plural) to be of the same 'atheistic moral' mind as it is/was for Vladimir Lenin, or supreme leader Kim Jong-un.

Happy days (& holidays)

The question is not atheist morals.

The issue is the Christian claim of an absolute moral authority.

As I have said before, Christians are no more or less moral and ethical than anyone else.

And again atheist simply means rejection of gods. There is no atheist morality. There are atheists who have different views and non religious beliefs.

My point is going back 2000 yeras up to today the moral record of Christianity as a whole is abysmal. In the light of modern liberal democratic systems and vlues. Free speech, freedom of thought without far of persecutorn as in Iran, Qatar. and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Elixir]

As an atheist I DO have a center. not based on dogma but on reality as I know it. The closest thing to “atheist morals” that I can endorse would be the golden rule. That which furthers love and happiness, I consider “good”, and that which furthers hate and suffering I consider “bad”.

That a local fundy would associate that dynamic with Lenin and Kim, speaks volumes about the evil that is organized religion.

 

[TomC]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Here's an important distinction.
We nontheist people do not support our ugly behaviors with arguments that begin with "God says...".

Sometimes we do start with "Mao says.." or "Marx says...", or something similar. But that's not the same.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

 

[Learner]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Anyway I can happily converse with fellow forum (atheist) members, coz I don't assume you (plural) to be of the same 'atheistic moral' mind as it is/was for Vladimir Lenin, or supreme leader Kim Jong-un.

Happy days (& holidays)

The question is not atheist morals.

No prob steve-b. It was my question, a pondering thought.

The issue is the Christian claim of an absolute moral authority.

As I have said before, Christians are no more or less moral and ethical than anyone else.

Christians "claiming" that they, themselves, as human-beings go, - claiming to be having 'absolute moral authority' - is quite a claim,(if that's what you mean by the claim). I would however, as many Christians would, instead, actually make the claim that it is Jesus who has the absolute moral authority!! Not us as His human followers. I don't doubt some people have claimed to be the AMA, but perhaps a little more thorough look into their backgrounds or beliefs, may reveal their particular mentality and moral type.

"Christians are no more less and ethical than anyone else." - Yes I know you have said quite a few times, I don't disagree.

And again atheist simply means rejection of gods. There is no atheist morality. There are atheists who have different views and non religious beliefs.

My point is going back 2000 yeras up to today the moral record of Christianity as a whole is abysmal. In the light of modern liberal democratic systems and vlues. Free speech, freedom of thought without far of persecutorn as in Iran, Qatar. and Saudi Arabia.

The line in bold is a flawed notion for that moral argument imo.

The moral historical record is All of us - regardless of what banner we like to identify with - where each of us hold different variations of the label banner. The religious and atheists combined, has as a whole, an abysmal record that is throughout the history of mankind's existence. That's really what you (plural) are actually highlighting and describing here, not realizing. That as a whole... it's that part of our human nature, which allows the abysmal to occur..

 

[Learner]

As an atheist I DO have a center. not based on dogma but on reality as I know it. The closest thing to “atheist morals” that I can endorse would be the golden rule. That which furthers love and happiness, I consider “good”, and that which furthers hate and suffering I consider “bad”.

I'm am glad you do, despite the certain differences in views, our doctrine tells us to do the 'golden rule' things in the reality, that we both are aware we reside in.

That a local fundy would associate that dynamic with Lenin and Kim, speaks volumes about the evil that is organized religion.

Yes, depending how you see it, and what you're getting at. Particular traits as part of 'human nature' speaks volumes.

 

[Learner]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Here's an important distinction.
We nontheist people do not support our ugly behaviors with arguments that begin with "God says...".
Sometimes we do start with "Mao says.." or "Marx says...", or something similar. But that's not the same.

The distinction may not be that relevant as an argument to my point, being that the actions of ugly behaviors are (also) caused by those ... who don't do it, in the name of God.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

And a Merry Christmas to you Tom

 

[steve_bank]

Learner, it is not quite a claim.

The RCC from the being thousands of years ago delared itself to be the god given moral authority on Earth. They stii=ll do but they no longer have the power to directly impose on people.

Individual Christians especially Evangelicals declare themselves god gven moarl authority over others. Homosexuality and abortion prominent examples.

The long running Christian religious conflicts. The Crusades.

We 'athesists' are the enemy, the spawn of Satan.

Most or all of us here don't begrudge you yiour religious beliefs. Just don't try and tell us there is something superior to it. We know better.

 

[Learner]

Learner, it is not quite a claim.

Apologies steve, I meant those who claimed to be the moral authority, were the ones making quite a claim.

The RCC from the being thousands of years ago delared itself to be the god given moral authority on Earth. They stii=ll do but they no longer have the power to directly impose on people.

I think we're saying similar things. From where humans stand, my point is that we don't have the absolute moral authority as it would be for Jesus or God.

Declaring as a church, that Jesus is the 'absolute moral authority' is what I'd claim which sounds similar but not quite the same as an individual church accepted by a community, which 'wouldn't necessarily' make them to be the right moral guardians, similar to your description above, like cults that would be imposing by force, their self-appointed moral authority, which as a theist, I see defeats the purpose. Hence there's lots of religious arguing among themselves e.g., seeing videos of theists exposing false prophets, and false teachings, i.e. distorting the gospel message, etc..

Individual Christians especially Evangelicals declare themselves god gven moarl authority over others. Homosexuality and abortion prominent examples.

There are all kinds of people who call themselves Christians. What kind? By their fruits you shall know them.

"Prominent" examples includes, idolaters, drunkards, fornicators (who are heterosexual too), thieves, revilers, extortioners, adulterers...
pretty much a big proportion of mankind.

The long running Christian religious conflicts. The Crusades.

We 'athesists' are the enemy, the spawn of Satan.

We may ALL have satans DNA since Eden etc..

John 8:44
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

... it depends on who you go with to be your father (in the Flesh or Spirit).

Most or all of us here don't begrudge you yiour religious beliefs. Just don't try and tell us there is something superior to it. We know better.

I am grateful. Let me know if you feel I'm imposing on you (anyone).

 

[James Brown]

Satan's DNA??

 

[steve_bank]

Learner, it is not quite a claim.

Apologies steve, I meant those who claimed to be the moral authority, were the ones making quite a claim.

The RCC from the being thousands of years ago delared itself to be the god given moral authority on Earth. They stii=ll do but they no longer have the power to directly impose on people.

I think we're saying similar things. From where humans stand, my point is that we don't have the absolute moral authority as it would be for Jesus or God.

Declaring as a church, that Jesus is the 'absolute moral authority' is what I'd claim which sounds similar but not quite the same as an individual church accepted by a community, which 'wouldn't necessarily' make them to be the right moral guardians, similar to your description above, like cults that would be imposing by force, their self-appointed moral authority, which as a theist, I see defeats the purpose. Hence there's lots of religious arguing among themselves e.g., seeing videos of theists exposing false prophets, and false teachings, i.e. distorting the gospel message, etc..

Individual Christians especially Evangelicals declare themselves god gven moarl authority over others. Homosexuality and abortion prominent examples.

There are all kinds of people who call themselves Christians. What kind? By their fruits you shall know them.

"Prominent" examples includes, idolaters, drunkards, fornicators (who are heterosexual too), thieves, revilers, extortioners, adulterers...
pretty much a big proportion of mankind.

The long running Christian religious conflicts. The Crusades.

We 'athesists' are the enemy, the spawn of Satan.

We may ALL have satans DNA since Eden etc..

John 8:44
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

... it depends on who you go with to be your father (in the Flesh or Spirit).

Most or all of us here don't begrudge you yiour religious beliefs. Just don't try and tell us there is something superior to it. We know better.

I am grateful. Let me know if you feel I'm imposing on you (anyone).

After all this time you know the nature of religious debate on this forum. Another aspect of Christianity is playing the victim.

 

[Tigers!]

What are the universal atheist morals? I suppose it varies - each to his or her own individual atheistic world view. Sounds like what is said about Christians, "you all disagree with each other etc.."

Anyway I can happily converse with fellow forum (atheist) members, coz I don't assume you (plural) to be of the same 'atheistic moral' mind as it is/was for Vladimir Lenin, or supreme leader Kim Jong-un.

Happy days (& holidays)

The question is not atheist morals.

The issue is the Christian claim of an absolute moral authority.

As I have said before, Christians are no more or less moral and ethical than anyone else.

And again atheist simply means rejection of gods. There is no atheist morality. There are atheists who have different views and non religious beliefs.

My point is going back 2000 yeras up to today the moral record of Christianity as a whole is abysmal. In the light of modern liberal democratic systems and vlues. Free speech, freedom of thought without far of persecutorn as in Iran, Qatar. and Saudi Arabia.

I as a Christian claim that a moral authority exists.

I do not claim that I can follow it absolutely.

 

[TomC]

I as a Christian claim that a moral authority exists.

What is that moral authority?
And what does it say?

That's the problem. Nobody has an answer to those two questions, especially not Christian people.

I'm a gay man. According to Moses, in Leviticus, God thinks I should be stoned to death.
Is that your moral authority? Jesus said things quite different, like "Judge Not".

I can't really tell what Christian people mean by "moral authority". It seems to mean "Whatever I think God meant by my interpretation of an English translation of a Greek translation of an oral tradition from some ancient Israelites".

Maybe you mean something different. Feel free to explain it.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

The classic Christian response.

Jesus was perfect I am not. A rationalization for things done in the name of Christianity and Jesus and god.

If as a Christian the moral authority is god interpreted from the bible then again, there is no morality in Christianity that is any different or better trhan any oter. IMO worse.

The ncient Hebrews and Isreal were as aggressive and brutal as other cultures. There are 613 commns in the OT many of which are brutal and senseless. Inpired word of god?

The claim of morality in the bible fails. Unless you want the biblical society. It was more like Saudi Arabia and Sharia Law.

Biblical heroes like Solomon and David were not moral and ethical people in our modern views.