Excommunication letter

[NobleSavage]

 

[Under the Rose]

For some reason, I was of the impression that excommunication was a Roman Catholic punishment and that the Jehovah's Witness used shunning, which is pretty much the same thing. It just did not occur to me that other churches also used similar tactics to discipline their members.

 

[Bronzeage]

The suspense is killing me. What did he do?

 

[NobleSavage]

The suspense is killing me. What did he do?

If you read the very top it says he was excommunicated for being gay. I've seen this picture going around Facebook and Reddit.

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For some reason, I was of the impression that excommunication was a Roman Catholic punishment and that the Jehovah's Witness used shunning, which is pretty much the same thing. It just did not occur to me that other churches also used similar tactics to discipline their members.

Yeah, it was news to me as well. I think I read somewhere that Mormons can be excommunicated.

 

[gmbteach]

Talk about fucking ridiculous. Who gives the church the right to say who and who won't get into heaven, for fucks sake.

You cannot choose who you love, it happens. Anyway, my response would be that he is following the bible - doesn't it say to 'love your fellow man'?

If I was Scott, I would laugh, start my own church that welcomes all worshippers and say 'screw you' to the church.

I don't personally believe in God anymore, but I don't begrudge anyone else believing in it.

 

[jonJ]

If you read the very top it says he was excommunicated for being gay. I've seen this picture going around Facebook and Reddit.

- - - Updated - - -

For some reason, I was of the impression that excommunication was a Roman Catholic punishment and that the Jehovah's Witness used shunning, which is pretty much the same thing. It just did not occur to me that other churches also used similar tactics to discipline their members.

Yeah, it was news to me as well. I think I read somewhere that Mormons can be excommunicated.

To paraphrase Groucho: "I wouldn't want to belong to any church that wouldn't have me as a member."

 

[Angra Mainyu]

So, they seem to believe that if they excommunicate him, Yahweh will torture him for eternity in Hell. And they go ahead and choose to excommunicate him.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'd write up a letter and excommunicate them right back.

Take the matter before God and let him decide who gets to burn in Hell because some dude wrote a letter.

 

[Keith&Co.]

If you read the very top it says he was excommunicated for being gay.

I suspect Bronzeage was asking: What did he do THEN? I mean, besides post the excommunication letter on the internet....

 

[Keith&Co.]

Anyway, my response would be that he is following the bible - doesn't it say to 'love your fellow man'?

Cheeky.

Someone has pointed out that following the Books is wrong, these days.
The Books got it wrong about slavery. There are rules to follow, and punishments, and it is in no way like having a butler, because if you let the slave go, you can keep his wife and kids.
Anyway, these days, society in general agrees that slavery is wrong. If anyone were to quote the Books and say they have a right to keep a slave, they're considered wrong. If someone tries to suggest people DESERVE to be slaves, as individuals or groups, because God says so in the Books, by virtue of their nationality, their Mark of Cain, or any other reason, they're looked down upon as hateful bigoted little people. The Faithful try hard to divorce themselves from people who quote The Books in such a manner. So they ignore those verses and consider themselves enlightened. Both sides of the US Civil War were sure that God supported their actions with respect to slavery. One side lost. As a whole, society seems to feel, now, that the right side won, then.

Society in general is coming to feel that homosexuality is NOT wrong. It's not sinful, it's not a reason for shame, it's not something that's anyone else's business. In general, it's become intolerant of people expressing intolerant views, especially by quoting The Books. People who keep on saying 'God Says' on this topic are going to be quickly lumped with those that are nostalgic about slavery, or adamant about miscegenation, or blaming the Jews....

My response would be to point out that they're building themselves a fine little house in the dustbin of history.

 

[Kharakov]

So, they seem to believe that if they excommunicate him, Yahweh will torture him for eternity in Hell. And they go ahead and choose to excommunicate him.

No. They believe that if they don't excommunicate him, their lack of action will be gross to Christ. Say you don't find male on male sex appealing, yet someone forces you to experience it by bringing it into your body (they see themselves as parts of the body of Christ).

If Christ, who these people represent, does not want to participate in male on male sex, allowing it to occur within the feeling, aware body of Christ is tantamount to rape. Note that this is only in the case that the action is in Christ's awareness, which encompasses events within the church- we are not aware of everything occurring within our bodies, and even when we know, we do not have to focus upon it, but the church is a manifestation of Christ's living will (and testament).

So excommunication is more of a separation from Christ's focused attention, because one does things which Christ finds sort of gross, and does not want to focus upon for eternity. Then again, it is sort of fun to gross out your friends, as long as they get your sense of humor, and you know that what you do won't hurt them. They just gotta know you love them first, and you've got to restrain yourself from running roughshod all over them.

Then again, I'm not Christ, and I'm definitely no Jack Kennedy, so I don't speak for the dude.

 

[NobleSavage]

Do churches ever kick you off the rolls for failure to attend? I was a member of a Southern Baptist church 25 years ago. Maybe I should them a letter...

 

[Angra Mainyu]

So, they seem to believe that if they excommunicate him, Yahweh will torture him for eternity in Hell. And they go ahead and choose to excommunicate him.

No. They believe that if they don't excommunicate him, their lack of action will be gross to Christ. Say you don't find male on male sex appealing, yet someone forces you to experience it by bringing it into your body (they see themselves as parts of the body of Christ).

If Christ, who these people represent, does not want to participate in male on male sex, allowing it to occur within the feeling, aware body of Christ is tantamount to rape. Note that this is only in the case that the action is in Christ's awareness, which encompasses events within the church- we are not aware of everything occurring within our bodies, and even when we know, we do not have to focus upon it, but the church is a manifestation of Christ's living will (and testament).

So excommunication is more of a separation from Christ's focused attention, because one does things which Christ finds sort of gross, and does not want to focus upon for eternity. Then again, it is sort of fun to gross out your friends, as long as they get your sense of humor, and you know that what you do won't hurt them. They just gotta know you love them first, and you've got to restrain yourself from running roughshod all over them.

Then again, I'm not Christ, and I'm definitely no Jack Kennedy, so I don't speak for the dude.

But the latter makes it clear that they believe their decision will be honored by Yahweh/Jesus, so they essentially believe to be sending him to Hell.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But the latter makes it clear that they believe their decision will be honored by Yahweh/Jesus, so they essentially believe to be sending him to Hell.

Yes. They believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven, so by denying him access to Christ, he's got no way to achieve salvation.
Note, in their minds, this is only a threat of Hell, all he has to do is admit that he's a sinner, repent being gay, accept their judgment that God hates faggots, and, if not live a lie that he can convert, at least not live his gay life so loudly.
Note that he was gay, and a participant in the church, and we can assume that God would have known about it, yet did nothing to stop him.
God didn't kick him out of the Church, people did, and only once he made it known to them that he was gay.
If god was so upset about it, god could have mentioned it before anyone came out of the closet.

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Do churches ever kick you off the rolls for failure to attend? I was a member of a Southern Baptist church 25 years ago. Maybe I should them a letter...

No, don't.
If they're like the Mormons, requests for excommunication just end up drawing extra hard efforts to get you back into the fold.
If there had been caller ID when i called the LDS Excomm Hotline, i'd still be up to my hips in missionaries.

 

[Valjean]

Don't Lutherans believe all men sin and fall short? Why is this particular "sin" singled out?

I didn't think Lutherans believed in original sin, or at least in congenital sin. I thought Protestants viewed sin as a choice.

Do Lutherans reject the medical/psychological consensus that homosexuality is not a choice? Do they also reject Copernicanism and the germ theory?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Note, in their minds, this is only a threat of Hell, all he has to do is admit that he's a sinner, repent being gay, accept their judgment that God hates faggots, and, if not live a lie that he can convert, at least not live his gay life so loudly.

It's a threat, but not an idle one in their minds, since they believe that he will be sent to Hell if he does not repent before he dies (and that's regardless of when he dies, btw).

Moreover, it seems they believe their actions already put him on a path to Hell, so in their view, they already carried out the action they need to make te threat effective.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Note, in their minds, this is only a threat of Hell, all he has to do is admit that he's a sinner, repent being gay, accept their judgment that God hates faggots, and, if not live a lie that he can convert, at least not live his gay life so loudly.

It's a threat, but not an idle one in their minds, ...).

Oh, sure.
But also in their minds, they cannot imagine that anyone would choose icky gaynessity over Eternal Paradise. They're not gay, and they're going to Heaven. SO clearly anyone who's sane would choose to go along with the rules they would obey anyway.

I'm sure most of the people involved are sure that he'll straighten out, given time.
And i'm also sure a significant number will shrug if he doesn't. "Well, he made his choice."

And, really, no, YOU made it at him.

 

[credoconsolans]

Don't Lutherans believe all men sin and fall short? Why is this particular "sin" singled out?

I didn't think Lutherans believed in original sin, or at least in congenital sin. I thought Protestants viewed sin as a choice.

Do Lutherans reject the medical/psychological consensus that homosexuality is not a choice? Do they also reject Copernicanism and the germ theory?

Truly. I'd like to see the OP's friend do a Harper Valley PTA on their asses.

I'd ask to see the excommunication letters of the people who failed to keep the sabbath holy (that would be at the least everyone who didn't attend church regularly), the liars, the adulterers, the fornicators, the thieves, etc., etc.

 

[Bronzeage]

If you read the very top it says he was excommunicated for being gay. I've seen this picture going around Facebook and Reddit.

- - - Updated - - -

For some reason, I was of the impression that excommunication was a Roman Catholic punishment and that the Jehovah's Witness used shunning, which is pretty much the same thing. It just did not occur to me that other churches also used similar tactics to discipline their members.

Yeah, it was news to me as well. I think I read somewhere that Mormons can be excommunicated.

Any church which requires some profession of faith or other requirements and maintains a membership roll can dismiss a member from the roll, for not maintaining the requirements. It's no different from the Masonic Order, or the Fraternal Order of Elks.

Being gay is actually not enough. To merit excommunication he would have to exhibit some behavior which violated Church Law. There are plenty of things a person could do, ranging from open political support for gay issues, to living with a man as a partner. The critical element of excommunication in a Protestant Church is the church member has to want to participate in the church in some way. If a registered church member who never attends and has no contact with other church members is living a gay lifestyle, I doubt any church would go through the trouble of excommunication.

The real sin that calls for excommunication is defiance of church authority. I imagine that is what is going on here. This is probably a gay man who has been a long time member, maybe even from childhood, who has come out and demanded his church respect his feelings.

 

[Underseer]

Talk about fucking ridiculous. Who gives the church the right to say who and who won't get into heaven, for fucks sake.

You cannot choose who you love, it happens. Anyway, my response would be that he is following the bible - doesn't it say to 'love your fellow man'?

If I was Scott, I would laugh, start my own church that welcomes all worshippers and say 'screw you' to the church.

I don't personally believe in God anymore, but I don't begrudge anyone else believing in it.

Agreed. What kind of Christians are these people? The Bible clearly says that they're supposed to kill him for being gay. I bet the Big Sky Daddy will send them all to Hell for this.