Faith isn't declining among millennials — religion is

[ksen]

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5624958/millennials-might-be-talking-to-god-more-than-we-thought

According to CMU's Integrated Innovation Institute, while only 52 percent of Millennials look to religion for guidance, 62 percent of them say they talk privately to God.

. . .

Some speculate the Millennial exodus from organized religion has to do with politics. According to this theory, Millennials have become disillusioned with what they see as the increasing politicization of religion. Some surveys have also suggested Millennials are leaving behind organized religion because of what they feel are anti-gay attitudes of congregants.

fwiw I see this as a good thing. I agree with the millenials that organized religion, in America anyway, has become more about politics than about faith. That's also why I left organized religion.

 

[rousseau]

Are they including 'those who took to religion' in the 'those who talk to God' numbers? Because that makes a difference. If so, only 1 in 5 non-religious person has any type of relationship with God, which doesn't mean we're faithful as a group, it just means that there's overlap between us and those who follow organized religion.

 

[ksen]

Are they including 'those who took to religion' in the 'those who talk to God' numbers?

I don't know.

 

[rousseau]

I don't know.

. It doesn't stretch my imagination too far to think some journalist somewhere misinterpreted their own data to give themselves a headline.

A few non-religious people who still believe in God isn't a sign that faith isn't declining, it's just a sign that it's possible to be non-Christian and still have faith. In 20 years those numbers could still very likely be smaller.

 

[doubtingt]

The study doesn't show that "faith isn't declining". What % of older people say they "talk to God"? I bet it is higher than 62%, which means that faith and theism is declining among Millennials. The only thing the study shows is that about 10% Millennials will say that they do not "look to religion" but still "talk to God".
Well, its obvious that the % who still talk to "God" in any population will be higher than those who look to a particular religion. A particular religion is more narrowly defined than the word "God", so those who lose their faith entirely tend to lose their religion first. In fact, the word "God" is so vague that for many it doesn't refer to anything that be accurately categorized as theistic belief. Some people will say "Please God, let the Cowboys win today", even if they don't really believe in God, yet this would still count as "talking to God". I would assume that nearly every theist would say the "talk to God", so what those numbers mean is that at least 38% of Millenials have no relationship with and don't believe in God (and likely higher for reasons I just state).

 

[Perspicuo]

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5624958/millennials-might-be-talking-to-god-more-than-we-thought
fwiw I see this as a good thing. I agree with the millenials that organized religion, in America anyway, has become more about politics than about faith. That's also why I left organized religion.

Faith in what? That is the question. If people believe that is not the question, such spirituality will slowly but surely wind down, progressively losing all wind in its sails, and settling down like an autumn leaf on the ground, with more a whimper than a punch... In contrast to TalkFreethought which is full of those who thundered down with a blast. I'd prefer your way if I could have, since our landing has been much more painful.

 

[DBT]

Faith is a belief in the truth of something. A belief in the truth of something that isn't supported by evidence. It need not be a religious belief.

 

[Underseer]

Faith is a belief in the truth of something. A belief in the truth of something that isn't supported by evidence. It need not be a religious belief.

One of the survey questions was "do you talk to god?"

I'm pretty sure they're not talking about the more generic use of the term you are thinking of.

 

[DBT]

One of the survey questions was "do you talk to god?"

I'm pretty sure they're not talking about the more generic use of the term you are thinking of.

I just thought I'd make a passing comment about faith. One of its expressions being religious belief.

 

[Cognoscenti324]

I'm waiting for the really important statistic - what percentage claim that god talks back to them, and what does he say?

 

[Sheshbazzar]

In times of distress it is not uncommon for people to utter pleas to 'Providence'. That in no wise entails that those so doing believe that the 'Providence' of the natural universe is in any manner any way similar to a man, or is a "He", "Him" or "Her", or to the anthropomorphized 'old man/insane despotic king setting on a throne up in the sky' of popular Abrahamic religious mythology, or in fact any manner of conscious entity or 'deity' at all.

If I scream out 'WHY?? Oh why did this horrible thing have to happen?" I'm NOT invoking the Abrahamic god, and I'm not expecting a reply from any religions ancient mythological sky-fairies.
If I privately utter a hope or a wish either silently in thought, or aloud, it does not indicate that I think I have a 'connection' or communication with any of the sky beasts of ancient religious mythologies.
If an 'answer' ever comes to me, it is because I found it within myself, or through some naturally occurring encounter with a source of information or a realization, nothing supernatural just the odds of the universe falling out this way or that. Sometimes favorable to my desires, and sometimes not.
Que sera sera, and learn to live at peace with oneself whatever comes.
I have a lot of faith. The world has been here and survived for billions of years, I quite naturally have faith that it will be here tomorrow, and for as long as I live.

 

[DBT]

Faith;
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

Trust;
1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed

Confidence;
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances. - Merriam Webster.

 

[doubtingt]

Faith;
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction;

especially : a system of religious beliefs

<the Protestant faith>

Trust;
1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed

Confidence;
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances. - Merriam Webster.

Is your point to highlight how faith in NOT the same as trust and confidence? Because that is the point these definitions make. Faith is technically not limited to religion, but all religion is faith because it asserts notions that cannot be supported with evidence. Faith suggests religion to most people because their are so few ideas outside of religion that people believe in so absolutely but with such a lack of evidence.

 

[bilby]

Faith;
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction;

especially : a system of religious beliefs

<the Protestant faith>

Trust;
1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed

Confidence;
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances. - Merriam Webster.

Is your point to highlight how faith in NOT the same as trust and confidence? Because that is the point these definitions make. Faith is technically not limited to religion, but all religion is faith because it asserts notions that cannot be supported with evidence. Faith suggests religion to most people because their are so few ideas outside of religion that people believe in so absolutely but with such a lack of evidence.

I have always been an atheist; but I have faith in Leeds United being the finest football team in the world. A faith which persists despite the League Tables, which suggest they are far from being the best football team in the second tier of English football. Clearly the facts are in error.

I understand why Christians, Muslims, Hindus et al. continue to support their team follow their religion, despite clear evidence that they are wrong. It is a facet of the tribalism that is hard wired into human brains. It can be overruled by reason; or it can be allowed to overrule reason. Similarly, there is an innate desire in humans to see agency in all things - to ascribe to random events some kind of purpose. Again, this can be overruled by reason; or it can be allowed to overrule reason. Most people choose the latter course.

Those who do use reason to ditch the tribalism of their religious organisation often find it harder (or take longer) to use reason to ditch the concept of agency, and to accept that some things just happen, with no reason or purpose at all. These are the non-religious who nevertheless appeal to God for assistance or guidance.

 

[DBT]

Faith;
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction;

especially : a system of religious beliefs

<the Protestant faith>

Trust;
1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed

Confidence;
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances. - Merriam Webster.

Is your point to highlight how faith in NOT the same as trust and confidence? Because that is the point these definitions make.

Yes. And the problem of semantic drift. Also the blanket use of the word 'faith' in circumstances where trust or hope or confidence is clearly the relevant word.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion just doesn't pay bonuses anymore. That's why it's on the wane. It's lost its competitive advantage. Lets face it, if you can't openly persecute the family that's clearly practicing the wrong religion or worshiping the wrong gods, what's the advantage of making anything more than token effort? It doesn't pay off. Does anyone actually think that religions align with and/or kill each other for anything less than economic conquest?

When I left for college I took along my high school letter jacket because I thought it was important. But when I got there I realized no one really gave a shit about my high school athletic conquests. I see religion similarly. You can try to change a global society into thinking it needs to adopt your provincial thinking in order to advantage itself or you can simply toss your old clothes. Some people don't toss them, however, they hang them in the closet. Pretty much the same thing though.

 

[Underseer]

Religion just doesn't pay bonuses anymore. That's why it's on the wane. It's lost its competitive advantage. Lets face it, if you can't openly persecute the family that's clearly practicing the wrong religion or worshiping the wrong gods, what's the advantage of making anything more than token effort? It doesn't pay off. Does anyone actually think that religions align with and/or kill each other for anything less than economic conquest?

When I left for college I took along my high school letter jacket because I thought it was important. But when I got there I realized no one really gave a shit about my high school athletic conquests. I see religion similarly. You can try to change a global society into thinking it needs to adopt your provincial thinking in order to advantage itself or you can simply toss your old clothes. Some people don't toss them, however, they hang them in the closet. Pretty much the same thing though.

Even without the ability to set people on fire for disagreeing with them, men of the cloth stand to make enormous piles of unearned cash. Do you think Pat Robertson made the money he used to fund his blood diamonds scheme? No, people willingly gave him that money in the name of religion.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I have always been an atheist; but I have faith in Leeds United being the finest football team in the world. A faith which persists despite the League Tables, which suggest they are far from being the best football team in the second tier of English football. Clearly the facts are in error.

Amen, brother. As a Toronto Maple Leafs' fan, I understand and agree with your unimpeachable logical reasoning entirely. Objective reality goes and pisses me off when it weasels its way around the truth like it does.

 

[Kharakov]

Hahaha. Since my faith in God has solidified, the Pirates have finally turned around and had a winning season after 20 years straight of losing seasons. But that isn't what it's all about....

Religion just doesn't pay bonuses anymore. That's why it's on the wane. It's lost its competitive advantage. Lets face it, if you can't openly persecute the family that's clearly practicing the wrong religion or worshiping the wrong gods, what's the advantage of making anything more than token effort? It doesn't pay off. Does anyone actually think that religions align with and/or kill each other for anything less than economic conquest?

I could be entirely wrong, but it seems to be more like a sports fan mentality rather than anything else. You've got the rabid asshole fans (including the ones who believe in immortality, which leads to them killing one another), the cheerful fans, the booster clubs, etc.

And ultimately it isn't about winning, it's about how you play the game, because the game exists to entertain, educate, and provide joy for the players and the watchers.


And orgasmic bliss isn't exactly a bad consequence of belief either....

 

[Ramaraksha]

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5624958/millennials-might-be-talking-to-god-more-than-we-thought

According to CMU's Integrated Innovation Institute, while only 52 percent of Millennials look to religion for guidance, 62 percent of them say they talk privately to God.

. . .

Some speculate the Millennial exodus from organized religion has to do with politics. According to this theory, Millennials have become disillusioned with what they see as the increasing politicization of religion. Some surveys have also suggested Millennials are leaving behind organized religion because of what they feel are anti-gay attitudes of congregants.

fwiw I see this as a good thing. I agree with the millenials that organized religion, in America anyway, has become more about politics than about faith. That's also why I left organized religion.

Many religions preach that only they are going to heaven - billions of men, women, children, babies, families with loved ones cast into hell - raped, beaten, tortured for the "crime" of not sharing in these peoples' delusions - one would think that would disgust any right-thinking person, apprantly not