Father gunned down in his doorway

[Derec]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1w5LHBr3c

Wrong version. But what is the point of the clip? Brisbon wasn't denied an opportunity to reform, but he wasn't willing or able to keep his nose clean during his probation.

Here's the quote:
Javert: Reform is a discredited fantasy. Modern science tells us that people are by nature, law breakers or law abiders. A wolf could wear sheep's clothing but he's still a wolf.

Ok, I was right in guessing what your point was.
I do not think it applies. He had the chance to turn his life around after the burglary when he was 18, even without moving to a new city (although that could have helped). That he squandered ample opportunities given is not the fault of the legal system which is anything by Javert-like.

 

[Shadowy Man]

...why did he run? Why did he not show the cop his hands?

It's becoming clear that the only acceptable behavior for a black man confronted by police for whatever reason is to lie down on the ground with his hands behind his back. If only every black man, regardless of their innocence, just submitted to the police, forgoing any Constitutional rights he may have, we would have a safer place to live. Sigh...

 

[Nice Squirrel]

nm

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, been a while since I've used that site. So this guy is definitely a gang banger! Driving without a license, repeatedly! Fucker deserved to be iced.

Strawman. Nobody is saying that driving without licence got him killed, at least not directly.

Nice swerve there.

But his history of lawbreaking (including marijuana, assault, and DUIs in addition to driving without licence and failure to appear) since his burglary conviction shows wanton disregard for the law.

Wanton disregard? You do realize words have meaning right? That hyperbole isn't something we should aspire for.

It also shows how ridiculous the Freethought Project is. If he only had a legal firearm (while under probation for a felony?), legal weed (he must have glaucoma or something), legal prescription drugs (must be a really ill 34 year old) and a couple of happy meals, why did he run? Why did he not show the cop his hands?

Why did he get shot?

No one is saying he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. We are saying that in getting killed, he wasn't actually accountable of anything worth getting killed for.

 

[Derec]

\The point has flown by, underneath the radar, and close enough to mess up our hair.

I think it crashed instead.

 

[laughing dog]

Once you commit one crime, no matter how petty, you can never be rehabilitated and it is the duty of police to gun you down.

If what police said was correct - that he ran and was grabbing an object inside his pant pocket when he was shot than the shooting appears justified.
I brought up his criminal background for three reasons
- to ask whether the gun could possibly be legal given that he was on probation for a felony
- because prior criminal behavior makes it more likely he acted in the way police describes
- to simply point to the ridiculousness of the mother complaining that her "good boy" was "portrayed as a criminal" when criminal is exactly what he was, so that portrayal is accurate.

The only reason any of this would be relevant is if the only option for the police is to kill suspects in these situations. Are you under the delusion that is the case?

 

[Derec]

No one is saying he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. We are saying that in getting killed, he wasn't actually accountable of anything worth getting killed for.

I agree. But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.
Which is why it was stupid that he did those things.

 

[Shadowy Man]

No one is saying he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. We are saying that in getting killed, he wasn't actually accountable of anything worth getting killed for.

But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.

Some of us believe that these are not things that justify being shot at.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.

Some of us believe that these are not things that justify being shot at.

And according to the Supreme Court, this is not a justification for shooting an individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No one is saying he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. We are saying that in getting killed, he wasn't actually accountable of anything worth getting killed for.

I agree.

You do?

But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.
Which is why it was stupid that he did those things.

Because you seem to be arguing both sides of the coin.

 

[ksen]

Police need to be disarmed.

 

[laughing dog]

No one is saying he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. We are saying that in getting killed, he wasn't actually accountable of anything worth getting killed for.

I agree. But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.
Which is why it was stupid that he did those things.

Please point to place in the Arizona criminal code were doing stupid things means someone must be executed.

 

[Shadowy Man]

And according to the Supreme Court, this is not a justification for shooting an individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

The guy in that case didn't have his hands in his pockets, though.

Edited to add: Interesting dissent from Justice O'Connor of all people:

In her dissent, Justice O'Connor highlighted the fact that police officers must often make swift, spur-of-the-moment decisions while on patrol, and argued that the majority did not properly consider this aspect of the case. Moreover, burglary is a serious crime which often leads to rape and murder, and the Tennessee statute represents the state legislature's judgment that such crimes may require the use of deadly force in order to protect the public against those who commit such crimes. She also disagreed that a suspect's interest in his own life necessarily extends to the right to flee from the scene of a crime. The suspect believed he was in imminent danger and therefore fled the scene.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And you must be gunned down in front of your family so that they can learn that this is what waits for them, whether they actually do anything or not.

He didn't have to run from the police (much less toward his apartment). He didn't have to put his hands in his pockets.
And yet again just about the very worst possible example of alleged police misconduct is chosen.

And the police didn't have to shoot him dead.

 

[RavenSky]

Man, been a while since I've used that site. So this guy is definitely a gang banger! Driving without a license, repeatedly! Fucker deserved to be iced.

Strawman. Nobody is saying that driving without licence got him killed, at least not directly. But his history of lawbreaking (including marijuana, assault, and DUIs in addition to driving without licence and failure to appear) since his burglary conviction shows wanton disregard for the law.
It also shows how ridiculous the Freethought Project is. If he only had a legal firearm (while under probation for a felony?), legal weed (he must have glaucoma or something), legal prescription drugs (must be a really ill 34 year old) and a couple of happy meals, why did he run? Why did he not show the cop his hands?

And none of that (if even accurate) excuse the police from killing him

 

[ksen]

Man, been a while since I've used that site. So this guy is definitely a gang banger! Driving without a license, repeatedly! Fucker deserved to be iced.

Strawman. Nobody is saying that driving without licence got him killed, at least not directly. But his history of lawbreaking (including marijuana, assault, and DUIs in addition to driving without licence and failure to appear) since his burglary conviction shows wanton disregard for the law.
It also shows how ridiculous the Freethought Project is. If he only had a legal firearm (while under probation for a felony?), legal weed (he must have glaucoma or something), legal prescription drugs (must be a really ill 34 year old) and a couple of happy meals, why did he run? Why did he not show the cop his hands?

Why did he need to show the cop his hands? He wasn't doing anything wrong.

And gee, I can't imagine why some black guys might be scared to death of the police these days.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It really does seem like so many problems in America would be solved if Obama would just hurry up and take all your guns away. You've clearly demonstrated as a country that you are wholly unable to use them in a responsible manner.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It really does seem like so many problems in America would be solved if Obama would just hurry up and take all your guns away. You've clearly demonstrated as a country that you are wholly unable to use them in a responsible manner.

What do you mean? Clearly non-violent blacks need more guns to protect themselves from the police.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It really does seem like so many problems in America would be solved if Obama would just hurry up and take all your guns away. You've clearly demonstrated as a country that you are wholly unable to use them in a responsible manner.

Wasn't that the first thing he did when he became President in 2009?

 

[credoconsolans]

I agree. But if you do things like run from the police and hold your hands inside your pockets clutching an object you just might get shot.
Which is why it was stupid that he did those things.

Please point to place in the Arizona criminal code were doing stupid things means someone must be executed.

It doesn't mean you MUST be executed, but it does increase your chances of something bad happening.

Kinda like trying to excuse someone getting killed for surfing on the top of their car at speed:

"Show me where doing stupid things means you must be killed..."