Federal Air Regulation No 1

[Coleman Smith]

I watched a show last night on the last flight of John F. Kennedy Jr's last flight.

My impression is that he was not the brightest bult in the Kennedy family.

He did graduate from law school but had to take the bar exam three times.

He took of and was flying VFR (Visually) in IFR (instrument) weather.

He became spatially disorientated, stalled and the plane spiraled nose down in to the water.

His plane was equipped with an auto-polit which he failed to use. If he used it he would not have lost it.

Last and most important he violated FAR 1 which most student pilots become aware of on on day 1.

Feder Air Regulation Number 1:

"Do not attempt to fly this aircraft with your head stuck up your ass."

 

[TSwizzle]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

Rule 1 of IFR conditions--if your body says one thing and the instruments say another, you fly according to the instruments. People want to get where they are going and go into conditions where you can't see adequately without the IFR experience. (You learn it with your view blocked and another pilot along who can see.)

 

[steve_bank]

I reember the conclusion was he flew into conditions he was not qualified for.

I was living up in a mountain pass in North Idaho in the 90s. You could see the weather clssing down and the ceiling dropping. I could not belive my ears. I head a small plane coming and watched it flying low weaving around hills trying to get over the pass.

The main reasons for private pilot crashes are fuel starvation a euphemism for running out of gas, failing to turn back when weather gets bad in front of you, and another euphemism controlled flight into the ground. Not paying attention. Getting lost.

I was at the airport I was taking lessons at when a twin negine plane on a cross country flight ran out of gas on the approach. He dead sticked to a safe landing.

If I remember right he ended up over water at dusk, a tricky visual situation that requires an instrument flight rating. You lose the horizon and can't judge altitude. Without training a pilot tends to go into a slow downward spiral. You go by feel instead of instruments.

Back when I was taking flying lessons I flew over snow, as night fell all ground references were lost. I was behind schedule on a cross country flight. I aborted going to the last airport on my flight and got back home using VOR.

 

[Coleman Smith]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

Rule 1 of IFR conditions--if your body says one thing and the instruments say another, you fly according to the instruments. People want to get where they are going and go into conditions where you can't see adequately without the IFR experience. (You learn it with your view blocked and another pilot along who can see.)

Yes, they make a special helmet for IFR that blocks the window view.

The student has to fly a whole course through various check points with out ever seeing the window.

The instructor watches for other air craft.

 

[Coleman Smith]

I reember the conclusion was he flew into conditions he was not qualified for.

I was living up in a mountain pass in North Idaho in the 90s. You could see the weather clssing down and the ceiling dropping. I could not belive my ears. I head a small plane coming and watched it flying low weaving around hills trying to get over the pass.

The main reasons for private pilot crashes are fuel starvation a euphemism for running out of gas, failing to turn back when weather gets bad in front of you, and another euphemism controlled flight into the ground. Not paying attention. Getting lost.

I was at the airport I was taking lessons at when a twin negine plane on a cross country flight ran out of gas on the approach. He dead sticked to a safe landing.

If I remember right he ended up over water at dusk, a tricky visual situation that requires an instrument flight rating. You lose the horizon and can't judge altitude. Without training a pilot tends to go into a slow downward spiral. You go by feel instead of instruments.

Back when I was taking flying lessons I flew over snow, as night fell all ground references were lost. I was behind schedule on a cross country flight. I aborted going to the last airport on my flight and got back home using VOR.

Another common problem is failure to correctly account for head wind which reduces ground speed and results in unexpected fuel consumption.

 

[Coleman Smith]

One of the issues that was pointed out in the show was that many times the crash of a plane is the result of a domino effect of multiple errors that by them selves may not have been fatal.

I handled the workers compensation claims of three crew members of a 4 engine plane that crashed on take off at KCI.

The plane had one engine out so the decision was made to do a three engine take off and have the out engine replaced at destination.

The following errors occurred:

1. It was a risky take off attempt made to save money.
2. They owner used a pilot who had never done this before.
3.After the crash the NST investigators found that flight engineers notes on the field near the cash revealing that he mixed English and metric measurements resulting in an error in calculating the point of rotation (a point in distance and speed at which time the airplane has sufficient lift to fly and goes "live"). This caused the plane to stall left wing down and it cart wheeled down the run way disintegrated and burned.

 

[Jarhyn]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

Rule 1 of IFR conditions--if your body says one thing and the instruments say another, you fly according to the instruments. People want to get where they are going and go into conditions where you can't see adequately without the IFR experience. (You learn it with your view blocked and another pilot along who can see.)

I remember when I first started coding IFR training simulators.

I was so very confused that the stuff you saw through the window being a static image of clouds.

It took me a day or two to fully absorb that on a plane that size, the instruments are more important than the view.

 

[lpetrich]

VFR:  Visual flight rules --  Visual meteorological conditions
IFR:  Instrument flight rules --  Instrument meteorological conditions

 Instrument rating - makes it safe to fly under IFR and not just VFR

The conditions for VFR:

The exact requirements vary by type of airspace, whether it is day or night (for countries that permit night VFR), and from country to country. Typical visibility requirements vary from one statute mile to five statute miles (many countries define these in metric units as 1,500 m to 8 km). Typical cloud clearance requirements vary from merely remaining clear of clouds to remaining at least one mile away (1,500 m in some countries) from clouds horizontally and 1,000 feet away from clouds vertically.

Yes, some countries permit night VFR:  Night visual flight rules

 

[steve_bank]

There is a cable show that picks apart air disasters.

Sometime it is a confluence of problems. Sometimes experienced commercial pilots simply do not follow procedures for a pane. Someties they make badjudegements when a survivable problem begins.

Crashes have occurred when jet pilots put schedules over weather risks.

Sometimes they perform miracles.

 

[lpetrich]

There's a YouTuber, "Mentour Pilot", who discusses quite a lot of aviation accidents and mishaps.

 

[atrib]

I watched a show last night on the last flight of John F. Kennedy Jr's last flight.

My impression is that he was not the brightest bult in the Kennedy family.

He did graduate from law school but had to take the bar exam three times.

He took of and was flying VFR (Visually) in IFR (instrument) weather.

He became spatially disorientated, stalled and the plane spiraled nose down in to the water.

His plane was equipped with an auto-polit which he failed to use. If he used it he would not have lost it.

Last and most important he violated FAR 1 which most student pilots become aware of on on day 1.

Feder Air Regulation Number 1:

"Do not attempt to fly this aircraft with your head stuck up your ass."

I had watched a video on this accident some years ago on Youtube. He had very little time flying as pilot-in-command, did not have an IFR rating (if I remember right), and had an urgent need to get to the island for a wedding/event for which he disregarded all the usual precautions. The accident was easily avoidable, and a competent pilot with instrument training should have had no issues completing the mission.

That being said, I know first hand how easy it is to screw up in an airplane flying in IMC conditions. I got my private pilot cert in 1988, my instrument rating in 1989, and my multi-engine rating in 1997, and I have over 5,200 hours as PIC on single and twin-engine Cessnas. And I know well enough to delay or abort my mission if weather conditions are unfavorable for flying, especially with icing or thunderstorms.

 

[atrib]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

Rule 1 of IFR conditions--if your body says one thing and the instruments say another, you fly according to the instruments. People want to get where they are going and go into conditions where you can't see adequately without the IFR experience. (You learn it with your view blocked and another pilot along who can see.)

Yes, they make a special helmet for IFR that blocks the window view.

The student has to fly a whole course through various check points with out ever seeing the window.

The instructor watches for other air craft.

I have never seen a helmet version. I have always used a special pair of eyeglasses that has fogged glass on the upper part that obscures your view of the outside. There are also requirements for a minimum number of instrument approaches flown to maintain your IFR currency, in addition to periodic recertification.

 

[Coleman Smith]

FWIW: My flying career and my boxing career have something in common.

My boxing career lasted one round.

I was in the process of taking flying lessons when the plane that was used for training crashed and killed the pilot and a passenger.

It was pilot error. The pilot did a hammerhead stall just off the end of the run way and the plane became a ball of metal that looked something like a discarded gum wrapper.

My wife said that's the end of your flying.

Been married 57 years.

 

[steve_bank]

There are old pilots, there are bold pilots. There are no old bold pilots.

 

[fromderinside]

I vaguely remember the news about the crash. Seems he wasn't as good a pilot as he thought he was and took a bit of a risk. Similar circumstances got Kobe Bryant killed.

Rule 1 of IFR conditions--if your body says one thing and the instruments say another, you fly according to the instruments. People want to get where they are going and go into conditions where you can't see adequately without the IFR experience. (You learn it with your view blocked and another pilot along who can see.)

Yes, they make a special helmet for IFR that blocks the window view.

The student has to fly a whole course through various check points with out ever seeing the window.

The instructor watches for other air craft.

I have never seen a helmet version. I have always used a special pair of eyeglasses that has fogged glass on the upper part that obscures your view of the outside. There are also requirements for a minimum number of instrument approaches flown to maintain your IFR currency, in addition to periodic recertification.

So there I was flying back to FSU in 1974 with two profs who were private pilots holding training certificates when the operating pilot put on a hood as we began our approach to Tallahassee Field. Surprised? U betcha.

 

[atrib]

FWIW: My flying career and my boxing career have something in common.

My boxing career lasted one round.

I was in the process of taking flying lessons when the plane that was used for training crashed and killed the pilot and a passenger.

It was pilot error. The pilot did a hammerhead stall just off the end of the run way and the plane became a ball of metal that looked something like a discarded gum wrapper.

My wife said that's the end of your flying.

Been married 57 years.

I'm assuming the stall was caused by the inexperienced pilot overcooking the vertical on rotation. Perhaps in combination with inappropriate throttle and torque settings. I can't imagine the CFI would have been teaching a student a hammerhead turn in a conventional training aircraft which is not designed to perform such procedures.

 

[Coleman Smith]

FWIW: My flying career and my boxing career have something in common.

My boxing career lasted one round.

I was in the process of taking flying lessons when the plane that was used for training crashed and killed the pilot and a passenger.

It was pilot error. The pilot did a hammerhead stall just off the end of the run way and the plane became a ball of metal that looked something like a discarded gum wrapper.

My wife said that's the end of your flying.

Been married 57 years.

I'm assuming the stall was caused by the inexperienced pilot overcooking the vertical on rotation. Perhaps in combination with inappropriate throttle and torque settings. I can't imagine the CFI would have been teaching a student a hammerhead turn in a conventional training aircraft which is not designed to perform such procedures.

I never learned the official reason for the crash.

I assume that he errored on the take off and lost enough speed so the stall occurred.

 

[steve_bank]

I watched a guy taking ff in a twin negine plane. At about 100 feet he did a steep turning climb.

My one stupid mistake was on a landing. It was an uncontrolled airport in Keene NH. I was downwind and while looking out the window oat a small commuter plane on the runway I hit the throttle instead of carburetor heat. The engine started to sputter in a few seconds later.

I declared an emergency, made the turns getting limed up on the runway, then went through the startup checklist and found my error. As I was taught, no matter what the first order of business is to fly the plane.

I had practiced engine out approaches from a few miles from the airport.

I got laid off and had to move away and never got back to finishing.

 

[Swammerdami]

We've ended up with TWO threads discussing aircraft piloting incidents. (Should these threads be merged?)

Here's an excerpt from my latest post in the other thread:

I continue to watch Mentour Pilot's YouTubes. . . .

It is often the interaction between the TWO pilots that is most important. BOTH pilots will need to work very hard, and cooperate, in complicated situations; Mentour reports many such happy incidents. What does NOT work — and has been the cause of several accidents reported by Mentour Pilot — is when, early in the flight, the senior captain insults the skills of a much younger and less experienced First Officer. That co-pilot becomes intimidated and reluctant to correct the Captain if/when the Captain makes mistakes or goes bonkers. . . .

One of several mistakes made [on Airblue Flight 202] was that the Captain, needing to turn left, changed the auto-pilot heading but this was ignored because he neglected to pull the appropriate mode switch. (It would seem simpler to just turn the control wheel left, but what do I know.) Since the autopilot ignored this heading, the captain just kept decreasing the target heading! When he finally pushed the proper switch the targeted heading was more than 180° less than the current heading, so the auto-pilot did a right turn instead of a left turn! (This was after several "Terrain ahead" warnings — a warning you NEVER want to hear.)