Female Privilege Takes a Hit

[Derec]

Therefore, we should not have any rules about anything whatsoever, because people won't respect them.

We should not have any sexist rules whatsoever.

 

[Derec]

It is hypersensitive SJW snowflakes like yourself you have tried to change the meaning of SJW into something silly, not me.

LMAO!

 

[Derec]

<snip>,

We agree there!

SJW really SHOULD apply just as much for conservatives as for liberals when they abandon logic and become self righteous and holier than thou about "social justice" shouldn't it? I can see examples of it on both sides.

"Social justice", as it is understood in present day usage, is a left-wing term. It's basically privileging of justice toward certain favored groups (women, minorities) over justice for individuals. Classic social justice thing would be saying that false rape accusers should not be prosecuted because it might affect rape reporting going forward. Individual justice has to take a back seat to "social justice".

 

[Angry Floof]

We agree there!

SJW really SHOULD apply just as much for conservatives as for liberals when they abandon logic and become self righteous and holier than thou about "social justice" shouldn't it? I can see examples of it on both sides.

"Social justice", as it is understood in present day usage, is a left-wing term. It's basically privileging of justice toward certain favored groups (women, minorities) over justice for individuals. Classic social justice thing would be saying that false rape accusers should not be prosecuted because it might affect rape reporting going forward. Individual justice has to take a back seat to "social justice".

Our social system is unjust and unfair, and it's not so much a matter of the system not giving people what they need as it is a system that actively punishes and deprives people pursuing what they need.

It is not at all surprising that you do not understand this, and we are aware that you and your ilk will continue to fight for an unjust status quo wherever you can.

Perhaps someday you will find the wherewithal to identify your self worth with something other than jack booting everyone who is not like you.

 

[Toni]

I always kind of scratch my head reading these types of threads. On the one hand, men are being told that its harassment to go up to a woman (or women) and engage her in conversation, and its so horrible that women need their own "safe spaces" to escape the constant male attention. Or even just saying "Hi" or "Good morning!" to a random woman walking down the street is often called harassment. On the other hand, we have had several threads in The Lounge where some shy or lonely guy is asking for advice on meeting women, and invariably they are told (by both men and women) to just go up to a woman and introduce yourself and engage them in small talk. And if you get shot down or ignored, just move on to the next woman. Be persistent. It's a numbers game. You may have to introduce yourself to 20 women before you get a single date. Isn't there a bit of a mixed message in all this?

Well, no. No one here is suggesting that it is harassment for a man to approach a woman to engage her in conversation.

What I will state very plainly is that a certain type of man will try to cast his harassment of another person, usually a woman, as simply trying to engage in conversation. Even when she has clearly demonstrated that she was uninterested in conversation. Or any sort of contact with the man. Period. Politely usually at first. This does not work as often as one would think. Sometimes, you have to become quite forceful and rude, for which you are called a bitch or worse. To your face, behind your back to any/everyone. Often with insulting and lewd comments, assertions and speculations about the woman. Which, unfortunately, can lead to 'justification' by a certain kind of guy for bolder attempts at engaging in...contact.

So, my first year in the dorms, there was a tall, ill kept stoner kind of guy who lived in my dorm. In those days, lots of ill kept stoner guys around so nothing odd about a stoner guy who was not well groomed. But this guy was....weird. Not in the harmless talk about whatever he saw when he was stoned but creepy. Aggressive for someone who seemed perpetually stoned. Aggressive, period, but in a laid back kind of way. It was a tall dorm so in the beginning, I took the elevator--and then would exit the next floor whenever creepy stoner guy got into the elevator, trying to make it harder for him to figure out just where I lived. Did not work. He showed up at my door, would not leave, even after I closed the door. He tried to push into the room. Fortunately, I stopped that before he got much momentum and locked the door. Then I started taking the stairs. He was too lazy to do that so I could mostly avoid him. For a while I thought I was just being too harsh: he was harmless if not my type. But then I spent most of a party keeping from using his cigarette to light the hems of the jeans my friend was wearing--while she was wearing them and mostly passed out from drinking too much. While he complained she wouldn't put out even though she was sleeping with some other guy.

I had to push any number of guys--some drunk, some sober, out of my doorway and began locking my room all of the time. Even when I was in it. These were not guys I knew, had engaged with, had flirted with. They were just guys who lived in my dorm or were visiting people there. Once, I made the mistake of mentioning in the group I was eating with that my room mate would be gone for the weekend. Someone took that as an invitation.....'No, thanks, I'm studying' did not work. I had to be much more forceful than the polite way that I was raised.

After that, I ate only with a small group of female friends in a corner of the cafeteria. One of the guys I had pushed out of my doorway started the rumor that we were lesbians, which I found amusing. Until I found out it was not the turn off/clear sign she's not interested that I had assumed it would be.

I know a young woman who moved into her first apartment by herself in a college town where many young adults live in small apartments. She began to find notes shoved under her door. A little weird but an awkward attempt at being..friendly? She guessed. She wasn't sure who was leaving them. No knock. She thought she saw someone walking down the steps right after a note was put under her door. Maybe him. Oh, well. And then the notes began to make it clear that someone was watching her closely. Mentioned seeing her leave at a certain time, what she was wearing. How her hair was done. No name. No knock on the door to say: Hi I'm Kevin. I live in 3 B right above you. Just wanted to say welcome to the building. Nothing like that. Just weird notes. She called the police when a package was left for her. It was near her birthday and she thought it might have been a friend. When she opened it, it was some 'sexy' underwear. She laughed, thinking it was a gag gift. Then she opened the card. Same creepy guy who had been leaving her notes, noticing when she left, what she was wearing. The package, coupled with noticing when she came and went and what she was wearing scared her. She does not scare easily. She had saved all the notes, saved the 'gift,' which she had me come over to look at. We photos on her phone. She went to the police. Who did not care at all.

Not one of those guys thought they were doing anything other than being 'friendly.' The guy who wrapped a bicycle chain around my neck --and pulled it tight--because I was 'interfering' with his 'relationship' with my friend (who used to ask me to come to her dorm room if she thought he might come around was certain he was simply protecting 'his' property from someone he assumed was a lesbian who had 'designs' on his woman(I'm not. I didn't. She wasn't.).

Sometimes guys are just trying to be friendly but sometimes guys are being aggressive and are wrapping it up in a 'just being friendly' creepy candy coating. And don't like it when they are turned down. At all.

 

[JonA]

I always kind of scratch my head reading these types of threads. On the one hand, men are being told that its harassment to go up to a woman (or women) and engage her in conversation, and its so horrible that women need their own "safe spaces" to escape the constant male attention. Or even just saying "Hi" or "Good morning!" to a random woman walking down the street is often called harassment. On the other hand, we have had several threads in The Lounge where some shy or lonely guy is asking for advice on meeting women, and invariably they are told (by both men and women) to just go up to a woman and introduce yourself and engage them in small talk. And if you get shot down or ignored, just move on to the next woman. Be persistent. It's a numbers game. You may have to introduce yourself to 20 women before you get a single date. Isn't there a bit of a mixed message in all this?

Well, no. No one here is suggesting that it is harassment for a man to approach a woman to engage her in conversation.

What I will state very plainly is that a certain type of man will try to cast his harassment of another person, usually a woman, as simply trying to engage in conversation. Even when she has clearly demonstrated that she was uninterested in conversation. Or any sort of contact with the man. Period. Politely usually at first. This does not work as often as one would think. Sometimes, you have to become quite forceful and rude, for which you are called a bitch or worse. To your face, behind your back to any/everyone. Often with insulting and lewd comments, assertions and speculations about the woman. Which, unfortunately, can lead to 'justification' by a certain kind of guy for bolder attempts at engaging in...contact.

So, my first year in the dorms, there was a tall, ill kept stoner kind of guy who lived in my dorm. In those days, lots of ill kept stoner guys around so nothing odd about a stoner guy who was not well groomed. But this guy was....weird. Not in the harmless talk about whatever he saw when he was stoned but creepy. Aggressive for someone who seemed perpetually stoned. Aggressive, period, but in a laid back kind of way. It was a tall dorm so in the beginning, I took the elevator--and then would exit the next floor whenever creepy stoner guy got into the elevator, trying to make it harder for him to figure out just where I lived. Did not work. He showed up at my door, would not leave, even after I closed the door. He tried to push into the room. Fortunately, I stopped that before he got much momentum and locked the door. Then I started taking the stairs. He was too lazy to do that so I could mostly avoid him. For a while I thought I was just being too harsh: he was harmless if not my type. But then I spent most of a party keeping from using his cigarette to light the hems of the jeans my friend was wearing--while she was wearing them and mostly passed out from drinking too much. While he complained she wouldn't put out even though she was sleeping with some other guy.

I had to push any number of guys--some drunk, some sober, out of my doorway and began locking my room all of the time. Even when I was in it. These were not guys I knew, had engaged with, had flirted with. They were just guys who lived in my dorm or were visiting people there. Once, I made the mistake of mentioning in the group I was eating with that my room mate would be gone for the weekend. Someone took that as an invitation.....'No, thanks, I'm studying' did not work. I had to be much more forceful than the polite way that I was raised.

After that, I ate only with a small group of female friends in a corner of the cafeteria. One of the guys I had pushed out of my doorway started the rumor that we were lesbians, which I found amusing. Until I found out it was not the turn off/clear sign she's not interested that I had assumed it would be.

I know a young woman who moved into her first apartment by herself in a college town where many young adults live in small apartments. She began to find notes shoved under her door. A little weird but an awkward attempt at being..friendly? She guessed. She wasn't sure who was leaving them. No knock. She thought she saw someone walking down the steps right after a note was put under her door. Maybe him. Oh, well. And then the notes began to make it clear that someone was watching her closely. Mentioned seeing her leave at a certain time, what she was wearing. How her hair was done. No name. No knock on the door to say: Hi I'm Kevin. I live in 3 B right above you. Just wanted to say welcome to the building. Nothing like that. Just weird notes. She called the police when a package was left for her. It was near her birthday and she thought it might have been a friend. When she opened it, it was some 'sexy' underwear. She laughed, thinking it was a gag gift. Then she opened the card. Same creepy guy who had been leaving her notes, noticing when she left, what she was wearing. The package, coupled with noticing when she came and went and what she was wearing scared her. She does not scare easily. She had saved all the notes, saved the 'gift,' which she had me come over to look at. We photos on her phone. She went to the police. Who did not care at all.

Not one of those guys thought they were doing anything other than being 'friendly.' The guy who wrapped a bicycle chain around my neck --and pulled it tight--because I was 'interfering' with his 'relationship' with my friend (who used to ask me to come to her dorm room if she thought he might come around was certain he was simply protecting 'his' property from someone he assumed was a lesbian who had 'designs' on his woman(I'm not. I didn't. She wasn't.).

Sometimes guys are just trying to be friendly but sometimes guys are being aggressive and are wrapping it up in a 'just being friendly' creepy candy coating. And don't like it when they are turned down. At all.

Was that meant to be related to the topic or were you just ranting?

 

[Trausti]

Yada, yada, yada.

Was that meant to be related to the topic or were you just ranting?

It's called vagsplaining.

 

[Toni]

Was that meant to be related to the topic or were you just ranting?

It's called vagsplaining.

Yeah,that's what I thought: you are both one of those guys who simply cannot take a polite no thank you for an answer. Or won't.

 

[Angry Floof]

It's called vagsplaining.

Yeah,that's what I thought: you are both one of those guys who simply cannot take a polite no thank you for an answer. Or won't.

Remember, Toni, it's women who are responsible for being polite and mature and are expected to handle our interactions with men with grace and careful attention to their feelings.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's called vagsplaining.

Yeah,that's what I thought: you are both one of those guys who simply cannot take a polite no thank you for an answer. Or won't.

In the south, and maybe other places, women are taught never hurt someone's feelings, if it can be avoided. So, when a guy asks, "Would you like to ....?" it leads to drawn out explanations that run along the lines of, "If maybe things were different and not quite the same it could be possible that at some other time in circumstances that aren't like right now, some other time."

This is said with a smile and such a pleasant tone of voice, that our guy walks away thinking, 'Hey, I think she likes me.'

When I was a bachelor, I had hard and fast rule. If I was interested in someone, I would ask her to share some activity with me. I was never vague. It was always a time, a place, and an activity. All she had to decide was whether she wanted to do it, or not. If I got the "some other time" response, I asked one more time. If I did not get a solid yes, she never heard from me again. If our paths ever crossed after that, I was likely to be with someone else and having a good time.

I know more than a few women who had to deal with men who couldn't take no for what it means. I suppose there is some sociological explanation for it, since it seems to be so common. It makes me wonder how a woman could raise a son who would be like that. Could this be his father's fault? It's a mystery.

 

[JonA]

It's called vagsplaining.

Yeah,that's what I thought: you are both one of those guys who simply cannot take a polite no thank you for an answer. Or won't.

 

[laughing dog]

Was that meant to be related to the topic or were you just ranting?

It's called vagsplaining.

Using dicksplaining is pretty ironic, snowflake.

 

[Trausti]

It's called vagsplaining.

Using dicksplaining is pretty ironic, snowflake.

 

[laughing dog]

Using dicksplaining is pretty ironic, snowflake.

Who does your hair?

 

[credoconsolans]

I always kind of scratch my head reading these types of threads. On the one hand, men are being told that its harassment to go up to a woman (or women) and engage her in conversation, and its so horrible that women need their own "safe spaces" to escape the constant male attention. Or even just saying "Hi" or "Good morning!" to a random woman walking down the street is often called harassment. On the other hand, we have had several threads in The Lounge where some shy or lonely guy is asking for advice on meeting women, and invariably they are told (by both men and women) to just go up to a woman and introduce yourself and engage them in small talk. And if you get shot down or ignored, just move on to the next woman. Be persistent. It's a numbers game. You may have to introduce yourself to 20 women before you get a single date. Isn't there a bit of a mixed message in all this?

Well, no. No one here is suggesting that it is harassment for a man to approach a woman to engage her in conversation.

What I will state very plainly is that a certain type of man will try to cast his harassment of another person, usually a woman, as simply trying to engage in conversation. Even when she has clearly demonstrated that she was uninterested in conversation. Or any sort of contact with the man. Period. Politely usually at first. This does not work as often as one would think. Sometimes, you have to become quite forceful and rude, for which you are called a bitch or worse. To your face, behind your back to any/everyone. Often with insulting and lewd comments, assertions and speculations about the woman. Which, unfortunately, can lead to 'justification' by a certain kind of guy for bolder attempts at engaging in...contact.

So, my first year in the dorms, there was a tall, ill kept stoner kind of guy who lived in my dorm. In those days, lots of ill kept stoner guys around so nothing odd about a stoner guy who was not well groomed. But this guy was....weird. Not in the harmless talk about whatever he saw when he was stoned but creepy. Aggressive for someone who seemed perpetually stoned. Aggressive, period, but in a laid back kind of way. It was a tall dorm so in the beginning, I took the elevator--and then would exit the next floor whenever creepy stoner guy got into the elevator, trying to make it harder for him to figure out just where I lived. Did not work. He showed up at my door, would not leave, even after I closed the door. He tried to push into the room. Fortunately, I stopped that before he got much momentum and locked the door. Then I started taking the stairs. He was too lazy to do that so I could mostly avoid him. For a while I thought I was just being too harsh: he was harmless if not my type. But then I spent most of a party keeping from using his cigarette to light the hems of the jeans my friend was wearing--while she was wearing them and mostly passed out from drinking too much. While he complained she wouldn't put out even though she was sleeping with some other guy.

I had to push any number of guys--some drunk, some sober, out of my doorway and began locking my room all of the time. Even when I was in it. These were not guys I knew, had engaged with, had flirted with. They were just guys who lived in my dorm or were visiting people there. Once, I made the mistake of mentioning in the group I was eating with that my room mate would be gone for the weekend. Someone took that as an invitation.....'No, thanks, I'm studying' did not work. I had to be much more forceful than the polite way that I was raised.

After that, I ate only with a small group of female friends in a corner of the cafeteria. One of the guys I had pushed out of my doorway started the rumor that we were lesbians, which I found amusing. Until I found out it was not the turn off/clear sign she's not interested that I had assumed it would be.

I know a young woman who moved into her first apartment by herself in a college town where many young adults live in small apartments. She began to find notes shoved under her door. A little weird but an awkward attempt at being..friendly? She guessed. She wasn't sure who was leaving them. No knock. She thought she saw someone walking down the steps right after a note was put under her door. Maybe him. Oh, well. And then the notes began to make it clear that someone was watching her closely. Mentioned seeing her leave at a certain time, what she was wearing. How her hair was done. No name. No knock on the door to say: Hi I'm Kevin. I live in 3 B right above you. Just wanted to say welcome to the building. Nothing like that. Just weird notes. She called the police when a package was left for her. It was near her birthday and she thought it might have been a friend. When she opened it, it was some 'sexy' underwear. She laughed, thinking it was a gag gift. Then she opened the card. Same creepy guy who had been leaving her notes, noticing when she left, what she was wearing. The package, coupled with noticing when she came and went and what she was wearing scared her. She does not scare easily. She had saved all the notes, saved the 'gift,' which she had me come over to look at. We photos on her phone. She went to the police. Who did not care at all.

Not one of those guys thought they were doing anything other than being 'friendly.' The guy who wrapped a bicycle chain around my neck --and pulled it tight--because I was 'interfering' with his 'relationship' with my friend (who used to ask me to come to her dorm room if she thought he might come around was certain he was simply protecting 'his' property from someone he assumed was a lesbian who had 'designs' on his woman(I'm not. I didn't. She wasn't.).

Sometimes guys are just trying to be friendly but sometimes guys are being aggressive and are wrapping it up in a 'just being friendly' creepy candy coating. And don't like it when they are turned down. At all.

Well said, Toni.

In my circle of women friends, we often commented that some guys will take a woman's shout of "FUCK OFF!" as a introduction. "Oh she spoke to me!" and continue their pursuit.

I've not had as creepy a stalker as your friend had, but yeah, I've had to go out of my way to avoid men who didn't get the hint of being brushed off. I've yelled at guys in bars that I wasn't interested, only for them to corral me at closing time to give me 'another chance'. I've had guys force me to kiss them on the dance floor when I was quite clear I didn't want to do it.

And yes, when I had to be rude to a guy who just wouldn't quit, I got verbally abused for my trouble.

Bronzeage gets it. You want to meet a strange woman, go up and start talking. If she smiles and turns away, or hedges and doesn't appear enthused about being approached GET THE HINT!!!

 

[thebeave]

Well, for those claiming its not harassment for a man to talk to a woman, there's this, coming soon to a community near you (maybe):

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/town-in-u.k.-makes-it-a-hate-crime-to-upset-women/article/2596356#.V4Zs6p0GLyA.facebook

If you talk to a woman in Nottinghamshire, East Midlands in the United Kingdom and she doesn't want to be spoken to by you, prepare to get a call from the police.

In an effort to crack down on the alleged "tidal wave of abuse and harassment" women face every day, the county's police force is now considering things like catcalling and pickup lines to be a hate crime if they are directed toward a woman from a man.

The incredibly vague definition of a misogynist hate crime from Nottinghamshire reads: "Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behavior targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman."

Of course, that could include anything a woman deems offensive or unwanted from a man. It's completely subjective. If a man approaches a woman in a bar and attempts to flirt with her, but she doesn't find him attractive, he could be guilty of a hate crime. Unattractive men, beware.

 

[Derec]

Well, for those claiming its not harassment for a man to talk to a woman, there's this, coming soon to a community near you (maybe):

It's not only very completely over the top but it is also extremely sexist as it only criminalizes that behavior if it comes from men toward women, but not in any other configuration.

 

[Angry Floof]

Well, for those claiming its not harassment for a man to talk to a woman, there's this, coming soon to a community near you (maybe):

It's not only very completely over the top but it is also extremely sexist as it only criminalizes that behavior if it comes from men toward women, but not in any other configuration.

Post nudes or GTFO.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's not only very completely over the top but it is also extremely sexist as it only criminalizes that behavior if it comes from men toward women, but not in any other configuration.

Post nudes or GTFO.

Be careful of what you wish.

 

[Sarpedon]

Are we still arguing over the changing programming standards of buildings?

I wonder if every other argument looks as dumb as this one to the people who have the relevant knowledge.