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Flynn Resigns - Impeachment proceedings begin

Malintent

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According to http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/politics/michael-flynn-white-house-national-security-adviser/

Reps. John Conyers, Jr., top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and Elijah Cummings, top Democrat on the House oversight Committee -- sent a request for a "full classified briefing" on the circumstances surrounding Flynn to the Justice Department and FBI Monday night following Flynn's resignation

House Judiciary Committee and House oversight Committee said:
We in Congress need to know who authorized his actions, permitted them and continued to let him have access to our most sensitive national security information despite knowing these risks. We need to know who else within the White House is a current and ongoing risk to our national security

That sounds to me like the beginnings of what will be the initiation of impeachment proceedings.

I mean, who do you THINK this "risk to national security" is?
 

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Well, the beginnings of the impeachment proceedings will need to wait two years, provided that the Dems win control of the House in the next election. Longer if they don't. The Republicans only concerns about national security involve whether or not the old lady in a hijab is going to blow somebody up while she heads out to the store.
 

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Using the Russians to spy on your opponent makes you their bitch.

This is treasonous.
 

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Well, the beginnings of the impeachment proceedings will need to wait two years, provided that the Dems win control of the House in the next election. Longer if they don't. The Republicans only concerns about national security involve whether or not the old lady in a hijab is going to blow somebody up while she heads out to the store.
Don't be so sure about that - Trump is not terribly popular with a large portion of the Republican establishment and base.
 

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Well, the beginnings of the impeachment proceedings will need to wait two years, provided that the Dems win control of the House in the next election. Longer if they don't. The Republicans only concerns about national security involve whether or not the old lady in a hijab is going to blow somebody up while she heads out to the store.
Don't be so sure about that - Trump is not terribly popular with a large portion of the Republican establishment and base.

The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.
 

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Don't be so sure about that - Trump is not terribly popular with a large portion of the Republican establishment and base.

The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.
Agreed. While a lot of Republican Congressional support for Trump is reluctant at best, they all have too much invested in him already and the Trump enthusiasts (a huge chunk of their voting block) remain blinded by right wing media. So their hands are tied.
 

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Blastula J. Grump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of nominees entering this administration until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.
 

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RoguePOTUSStaff sez Flynn's replacement will be another conduit to Putin.

Also that was why Yates was fired. And that Trump was bypassed; Ryan and Pence made Flynn resign.

And, on lighter note:
The good news for POTUS is that accepting Flynn's sudden resg gave him leverage to negotiate the return of his phone. Such a deal maker


YMMV.
 

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House Dems having a great time today with this layup drill while Republicans are letting their pit stains show.
 

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Trumps actions still have not come close to crimes that could lead to impeachment.And,congress does that.So,it will not even be possible until the 2018 elections.
 

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Trumps actions still have not come close to crimes that could lead to impeachment.And,congress does that.So,it will not even be possible until the 2018 elections.

We don't know what Trump's actions were.

This is something real to investigate.

If Trump was taking information from the Russians about his opponents he made himself an actor in Russian interference in the election.
 

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Don't be so sure about that - Trump is not terribly popular with a large portion of the Republican establishment and base.

The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.

The Republican bitch is sportin' a Trump stamp, and who doesn't regret one of those? The fewer days in office, the fewer bad memories to linger. And, consider, Dems don't have to engage in the usual political pissing match the public is oh so used to. They can start using the T word. Treason will bend the public ear.

Or maybe it's just wishful delusions on my part.
 

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Don't be so sure about that - Trump is not terribly popular with a large portion of the Republican establishment and base.

The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.

They've already jumped out of the plane with him, they're not about to cut the parachute cords just to get away from him.
 

Shadowy Man

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Trumps actions still have not come close to crimes that could lead to impeachment.And,congress does that.So,it will not even be possible until the 2018 elections.

We don't know what Trump's actions were.

This is something real to investigate.

If Trump was taking information from the Russians about his opponents he made himself an actor in Russian interference in the election.

According to Kellyanne Conway, Trump had full confidence in Flynn right up to his resignation despite knowing that he had quite likely been involved in illegal conversations with the Russians and despite being told a month ago by the Justice Department that Flynn could be susceptible to blackmail by the Russians. He kept him in the position of *National Security Advisor*. Let that sink in...
 

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Also, can we bring up the fact that the guy who got hired as National Security Advisor was apparently unaware that the people who would be working for him record calls between US officials like him and foreign governments? That would seem like a fairly basic piece of information that someone who's qualified for that position should have already known.
 

Malintent

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People are showing up at their local town halls, warning their Republican representatives that they will not get reelected if they act as a Trump puppet.
 

Malintent

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Trumps actions still have not come close to crimes that could lead to impeachment.And,congress does that.So,it will not even be possible until the 2018 elections.

Many are disagreeing with this... most recently, we had two repug Senators break ranks over the Education nominee. Fox news today is farther left than I have ever seen it.. I don't think the Republican party has a chance in hell of not being completely divided and gimped out of majority.
 

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Also, can we bring up the fact that the guy who got hired as National Security Advisor was apparently unaware that the people who would be working for him record calls between US officials like him and foreign governments? That would seem like a fairly basic piece of information that someone who's qualified for that position should have already known.

That's why it's a virtual certainty that Cheato put him up to it. Or else!
 

Malintent

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The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.

They've already jumped out of the plane with him, they're not about to cut the parachute cords just to get away from him.

I disagree... It's more like they are considering releasing his harness, while remaining under the canopy of their base's wishes. What representative is going to think, "gee, he has a 30% approval rating.. what percentage do I need to get myself reelected again?"
 

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I disagree... It's more like they are considering releasing his harness, while remaining under the canopy of their base's wishes. What representative is going to think, "gee, he has a 30% approval rating.. what percentage do I need to get myself reelected again?"

But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.
 

Malintent

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I disagree... It's more like they are considering releasing his harness, while remaining under the canopy of their base's wishes. What representative is going to think, "gee, he has a 30% approval rating.. what percentage do I need to get myself reelected again?"

But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.
 

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I'm almost feeling sorry for Kellyanne Conway for having to defend Trump administration's inconsistencies on Flynn...

 

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But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.

Well, of that other 70%, 40% will never be voting for them anyways. So, they're considering the needs of one group of 30% and another group of 30%. One of those groups has shown themselves to be very passionate and engaged in the electoral process and that's the Trump voters.

Also, it's not the some kind of nation-wide Presidential vote which matters, but the local votes within their districts, because impeachment is done by the House and not by the Senate. The Tea Party and Trump factions are very active in the primary process, so they're the ones who give each of the GOP councilmen their job. They're also delicate snowflakes and are very capable of staying home during the general election if the incumbent does survive the primary challenge they put against him and a few percentage points lost by their base staying home would swing a large number of districts to the Dems.
 

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But that 30% votes heavily in Republican primaries. Trump's supporters have a gun to the GOP's head, so it doesn't matter what the establishment part of their base wants. Going against Trump means that they lose in the primary when another candidate is selected to replace them or they lose in the general when the Trump faction stays home and gives their job to a Democrat.

.. but what I am saying is that Trump supporters are less than 30%... it is the OTHER 70% holding the gun to their head.

Would you be loyal to the people that give you your job, or the person that has no influence on your job that those very people are turning against?

What you are proposing assumes that every republican Senator expects to have a chance at being the next president, and that that nomination depends solely on one element of the entire GOP base.

Grab some popcorn - that wheel will be turning for a long time. As the Cheato infection perfuses throughout the Repug establishment there will be ever-increasing numbers of them seeking an antidote. It is like a virus that they can never truly get rid of, having once bitten the rotten fruit. But with adequate PR spin treatment many of them will be able to suppress the symptoms long enough to get re-elected to Congress, even if their presidential prospects are already shot.
 

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Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

Chances of impeaching Trump on this issue? Considerably less than nil.

Trump is a guy who is either unaware of the rules, or thinks they don't apply to him, or thinks that, as POTUS, he can override them. He has also surrounded himself with people of the same opinion.

Flynn is the sacrificial chicken. He's been fired so they can go, "oh we've dealt with that issue, let's move on".

You can bet the inheritance that every cabinet member Trump has appointed is similarly compromised in some way and that Trump will ensure that the slightest hint of dissent in the cabinet will see those swords of Damocles waved around to ensure compliance amongst the weevils as they cling to their power bases.

At risk of someone invoking Godwin, Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.
 

Malintent

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Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

Well then Trump will be right within his element... the Reality TV formula.
 

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The problem is impeaching him would hurt the Republican "brand".

And these people put party over nation time and time again.

It won't even begin to happen with a Republican Congress.
Agreed. While a lot of Republican Congressional support for Trump is reluctant at best, they all have too much invested in him already and the Trump enthusiasts (a huge chunk of their voting block) remain blinded by right wing media. So their hands are tied.

Right now, Trump is serving a useful purpose, with lots of high profile distractions from the real gut job being done on the country. Republicans will keep him in place right up until he is no longer useful. Right now, he's pretty useful as a distraction and is doing an excellent job of laying the groundwork for removal from office by impeachment or 25th Amendment. It will be so easy once it's decided it's the right time.

Democrats have nothing to do with it, except to make noise.
 

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I'm almost feeling sorry for Kellyanne Conway for having to defend Trump administration's inconsistencies on Flynn...



Don't feel sorry for her. I'm pretty sure she's on her way out PDQ. And a big part of me thinks that she wants out, which is why she's done some of the bonehead things like plugging for Ivanka right now.

Thing is, Ivanka's doing just fine. Macys and other retailers dropping her line publicly is just publicity. Lines get dropped or cut back all the time. But frankly, even without her line of retail goods, Ivanka is doing just fine, gonna be just fine.
 

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Don't feel sorry for her. I'm pretty sure she's on her way out PDQ. And a big part of me thinks that she wants out, which is why she's done some of the bonehead things like plugging for Ivanka right now.

Thing is, Ivanka's doing just fine. Macys and other retailers dropping her line publicly is just publicity. Lines get dropped or cut back all the time. But frankly, even without her line of retail goods, Ivanka is doing just fine, gonna be just fine.

Until Daddy can't pay off the Russian loans. Then she disappears and gets mailed back one piece at a time.
 

Malintent

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Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.
agree.
Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.
disagree. Kellyanne already confirmed that the President was fully aware... it would be impossible to claim otherwise... and foolish, as the President not knowing what his National Security Advisor was up to is actually worse than him saying that it "wasn't that big of a deal"... and this being the content of that mysterious FBI briefing (or CIA, I forget) is better than the Piss Party story, for sure.
Chances of impeaching Trump on this issue? Considerably less than nil.
This issue ALONE, I agree. This is not the only issue. This + conflict of interest + pathological lying regardless of how trivial + ethics violations
Trump is a guy who is either unaware of the rules, or thinks they don't apply to him, or thinks that, as POTUS, he can override them. He has also surrounded himself with people of the same opinion.
yes, exactly... that is how he is getting himself impeached, arrested, or worse. If you tried to play ice hockey without knowing the rules, you would spend most of your time in the penalty box for icing and being off-sides constantly.
 

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Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

So Spicer's statement this afternoon acknowledging that 45 was told weeks ago by the White House Counsel isn't proof? What do you want? Video?
 

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This whole story stinks. The basis of his firing was that he lied to the VP? Excluding Cheney, what VP would have ever mattered if someone lied to the VP?

- - - Updated - - -

Chances of President-elect Trump not knowing about his pick for NSA speaking to the Russians about diplomatic relations? Roughly nil.

Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

So Spicer's statement this afternoon acknowledging that 45 was told weeks ago by the White House Counsel isn't proof? What do you want? Video?
And we are stuck with a couple indecent scenarios. He was ordered to do the talking or he did it completely on his own. Seriously, we really don't want either of those to be true.
 

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Chances of proving Trump was aware of the matter? Roughly nil.

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?
 

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This whole story stinks. The basis of his firing was that he lied to the VP? Excluding Cheney, what VP would have ever mattered if someone lied to the VP?

No one but NO ONE in the Admin. is going to admit that anyone in the admin. was doing anything illegal (which Flynn was!) or even questionable. Yates was fired because she was making a stink over this. It just got to be too big a deal with too many people talking about it not to ditch Flynn.

The 'lying' thing is a pretext, as is just about everything in that admin.

And we are stuck with a couple indecent scenarios. He was ordered to do the talking or he did it completely on his own. Seriously, we really don't want either of those to be true.

Ordered???? No, he was hired to do the talking.

I pretty much don't want anything that's happened in national politics for the past 3 months to be true but this is what we have. Pretending otherwise isn't going to help a damn thing.

- - - Updated - - -

No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?


Yates was fired for knowing/confronting admin over it. This slowed down the public knowledge and forcing of admin.'s hand re: calling for Flynn's resignation.
 

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Yates was fired for knowing/confronting admin over it. This slowed down the public knowledge and forcing of admin.'s hand re: calling for Flynn's resignation.

It's not the public knowledge, it's the oversight committee in the Senate. If the White House was informed, I assume that they should have been informed at the same time. If someone at the FBI/NSA/wherever is seeing that this guy who they caught doing this illegal stuff was in the middle of a confirmation hearing and nobody was asking about all the illegal stuff he'd been caught doing, that might warrant a phone call or two.
 

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No. His own Justice dept told him weeks ago.

Did they tell him or did they tell someone who works for him with the expectation that he would be told by that someone?

Also, if the Justice Department knew, why didn't the Senate Judiciary Committee or the Senate Intelligence Committee or one of the other groups who voted to confirm him after this information was known? If those guys didn't know, why didn't the Justice Department fill them in about this extraordinarily relevant information while they knew the confirmation hearings for this guy were going on?

The White House, through Spicer, says he was told.

But you know how they lie.
 

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No one but NO ONE in the Admin. is going to admit that anyone in the admin. was doing anything illegal (which Flynn was!) or even questionable. Yates was fired because she was making a stink over this. It just got to be too big a deal with too many people talking about it not to ditch Flynn.

The 'lying' thing is a pretext, as is just about everything in that admin.
The joke is the VP angle though. Who ever has to answer to the VP, other than NASA?

The Yates issue becomes much larger, if she was fired because of this. It is one thing to fire an AG for partisan political bitchery, but because of someone breaking the law? Quick, someone get Bork on speed dial.
 

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At risk of someone invoking Godwin, Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

No Godwin needed. This is exactly how he has always operated his businesses, too. Now, it is unfortunately dangerous to our country.
 

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At risk of someone invoking Godwin, Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

No Godwin needed. This is exactly how he has always operated his businesses, too. Now, it is unfortunately dangerous to our country.
This may be a competence verses intentional Occam Razor deal. Trump and his cabinet know nothing about running a bureaucracy. That a bureaucracy they are running is completely fucked up is hardly surprising. It was one of the reasons why Trump should never have been elected.
 

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At risk of someone invoking Godwin, Trump's agenda is to have every department and agency squabbling and in-fighting and their respective cabinet representatives scheming against each other in order to prevent any serious challenge to his authority.

No Godwin needed. This is exactly how he has always operated his businesses, too. Now, it is unfortunately dangerous to our country.

And as always, once his project declares bankruptcy whether through impeachment or otherwise, he'll walk away unscathed with the profits from his broken promises. He will always be "Ex-President of The United States of America" and nobody can ever take that away from him. It will forevermore be a shame upon our house.
 

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I'm almost feeling sorry for Kellyanne Conway for having to defend Trump administration's inconsistencies on Flynn...



It was like watching a robot malfunction because it got caught in some logic loop it couldn't escape. Conway's worst performance yet.
 

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The weird part is is that every goddamn Trump supporter in your country is still not convinced.

Maybe passing a small logic test should be requisite for the right to vote.
 

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The weird part is is that every goddamn Trump supporter in your country is still not convinced.

Maybe passing a small logic test should be requisite for the right to vote.

Convinced? Hell, all Flynn is guilty of is trying to improve relations with Russia!

It's the neocons and Obama/HRC traitors in the Deep State that did the hit.

This is why Drumpf needs sweeping dictatorial powers IMMEDIATELY!
 

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The weird part is is that every goddamn Trump supporter in your country is still not convinced.

Maybe passing a small logic test should be requisite for the right to vote.

Convinced? Hell, all Flynn is guilty of is trying to improve relations with Russia!
That is definitely the line from our Trump trooper here, 'improve relations with Russia', as if Obama was a Cold Warrior who restarted the Cold War and put missiles in Turkey.

'We need Russia's help to defeat ISIS!' And all those Syrian bombing raids on non-ISIS targets by Russia?

These people are so far gone.
 

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Convinced? Hell, all Flynn is guilty of is trying to improve relations with Russia!
That is definitely the line from our Trump trooper here, 'improve relations with Russia', as if Obama was a Cold Warrior who restarted the Cold War and put missiles in Turkey.

'We need Russia's help to defeat ISIS!' And all those Syrian bombing raids on non-ISIS targets by Russia?

These people are so far gone.

Hillary wants war with Russia, you know. That's a fact.

Seriously, my post content came from leftie sites to whom Obama is the Antichrist and HRC Satan herself.
 

blastula

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Twitler's take on the story:

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9h9 hours ago
The real story here is why are there so many illegal leaks coming out of Washington? Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc

Because he never would have had to fire Flynn if there were no leaks about what he did.

This has been the leakiest White House ever, just like his campaign.

Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc

They probably will if he talks about them while at dinner at Mar a Lago's public restaurant, like he does.
 

Shadowy Man

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Twitler's take on the story:



Because he never would have had to fire Flynn if there were no leaks about what he did.

This has been the leakiest White House ever, just like his campaign.

Will these leaks be happening as I deal on N.Korea etc

They probably will if he talks about them while at dinner at Mar a Lago's public restaurant, like he does.

Bullies hate snitches.
 
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