"foreign interference" in our elections? Why not?

[Lumpenproletariat]

Rep. Pramila Jayapal spoke passionately:

"Is anyone of my colleagues willing to say that it is ever OK for a President of the United States of America to invite foreign interference in our elections?"


YES! Of course it's OK in some cases.

E.g., suppose a foreign scientist has data to show the harmful effects of climate change, and the President invites that scientist to speak at a political rally, to help convert some of the public to vote for himself or other candidates who favor taking action to reduce carbon emissions.

Perhaps that foreign scientist is best qualified to explain the need for taking the steps, and so has more credibility than the politicians or U.S. scientists who have less information about it. So it's a silly question. In some cases there's nothing wrong with inviting foreigners to influence U.S. elections. Probably many cases.

Why does anyone vote for babbling demagogues like this?

What is the xenophobia which says any foreign influence has to be bad? Is your life made worse every time anything foreign influences you?

What if a foreign company invents a better voting machine, which guarantees more honesty --- Would it be wrong to import them?

What if a foreign company invents better communicating technology, to broadcast the elections and politics --- Should that technology be banned from the country?

What if a foreign school or university teaches political strategy or power politics --- Should U.S. students be prohibited from enrolling in such classes? or reading such literature, because it's foreign-tainted?

What if a foreigner wants to promote socialized medicine in the U.S., as a better system? and wants to help a candidate sympathetic to that --- Should that foreigner be censored, or banned from participation in anything political?

Should the FBI spy on political organizations having connections to any foreigners? or arrest those attending their meetings?

 

[ZiprHead]

E.g., suppose a foreign scientist has data to show the harmful effects of climate change, and the President invites that scientist to speak at a political rally, to help convert some of the public to vote for himself or other candidates who favor taking action to reduce carbon emissions.

That's not what is considered interference.

 

[Elixir]

E.g., suppose a foreign scientist has data to show the harmful effects of climate change, and the President invites that scientist to speak at a political rally, to help convert some of the public to vote for himself or other candidates who favor taking action to reduce carbon emissions.

That's not what is considered interference.

Yabut it's a convenient excuse to allow a foreign adversary to announce bogus investigations into an incumbent's opponent in order to tarnish them. And if that announcement also causes the incumbent to then release illegally withheld funds that were duly appropriated by Congress and approved by DoD - well, so much the better.

Germany? Japan? China? Iran? Are you listening?
Y'all getting sick of the fat bastard in the WH? Come on up to the plate, and tell us about the rape accusations, the fraud and the theft committed by Donald Trump! No, we don't have $400,000,000.00 to hold over your heads, but that's why it's so urgent to get rid of the scumbag; we'll give it to you once you succeed in helping us get rid of him. Oh - and here is the OS code for 40 percent of the voting machines that will be in use... do with it what you will. And don't forget - this is all legal now - we will even pay the cost of putting it all on-air in the US; you just have to keep announcing that Donald the Trump is implicated in rapes, murders, theft and fraud!

<cue republican applause>

 

[barbos]

US is a de facto World Police which is elected only by American citizens. Other countries have no part in the election, it's not democratic if you ask me.

 

[repoman]

Yeah, why not, especially when the money is given by given by dual loyalty US citizens

 

[RVonse]

Im not sure what the ultimate answer should be to this. I see the scientific examples given by the OP, yet I also see the potential harm done by an enemy of the state..

But one thing is clear to me. If it is ok for Israel to influence US politics it should also be ok for Russia and/or China to do the same. Because you would think the same rules have to be applied uniform without bias.

At present, it seems to be more than ok for Israel to have almost complete and massive powers over our government. While at the same time a country like Russia causes massive hysteria to the Democrats because they spent a few ads on Facebook. There is no consistency.

 

[repoman]

It is moreso the US military industrial complex that gets a lot of the money that is "given" to Israel that also damages their own industries flooded with US military hardware. Two birds with one stone and all.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

E.g., suppose a foreign scientist has data to show the harmful effects of climate change, and the President invites that scientist to speak at a political rally, to help convert some of the public to vote for himself or other candidates who favor taking action to reduce carbon emissions.

That's not what is considered interference.

I have a feeling we'll need to keep reposting this.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

E.g., suppose a foreign scientist has data to show the harmful effects of climate change, and the President invites that scientist to speak at a political rally, to help convert some of the public to vote for himself or other candidates who favor taking action to reduce carbon emissions.

That's not what is considered interference.

I have a feeling we'll need to keep reposting this.

What if it's President Trump inviting a Russian climate-change-denier scientist, and voters are influenced by the scientist, who denounces Trump's opponent for being wrong on global warming. And that scientist receives grants from Putin, and was appointed by Putin to some Russian propaganda department. Etc.

Or maybe he's a Saudi scientist, subsidized by the Crown Prince (but still recognized internationally as a legitimate scientist).

And he's a consultant to an oil company in that country, and Trump's son is sitting on that company's BoD and being paid $50,000 a month.

Etc.

 

[barbos]

It is only interference when you disagree with it.

 

[Politesse]

I'm pretty sure the concern is over foreign governments, not foreign facts. If you want to see what it is like when the gate to foreign interference is swung wide open, one need only look at how the United States and China cynically manipulate the electoral politics of the places they call the "third world"; really, just those places too impoverished to turn down supposed help from dubious sources.

 

[barbos]

I'm pretty sure the concern is over foreign governments, not foreign facts. If you want to see what it is like when the gate to foreign interference is swung wide open, one need only look at how the United States and China cynically manipulate the electoral politics of the places they call the "third world"; really, just those places too impoverished to turn down supposed help from dubious sources.

China does not manipulate the 3rd world elections much. They seem to be more interested in economy.
And Russia, Ukraine are not a 3rd world, they are historically 2nd world where US manipulate elections.

 

[Politesse]

I'm pretty sure the concern is over foreign governments, not foreign facts. If you want to see what it is like when the gate to foreign interference is swung wide open, one need only look at how the United States and China cynically manipulate the electoral politics of the places they call the "third world"; really, just those places too impoverished to turn down supposed help from dubious sources.

China does not manipulate the 3rd world elections much. They seem to be more interested in economy.
And Russia, Ukraine are not a 3rd world, they are historically 2nd world where US manipulate elections.

You either haven't been paying attention to African affairs, or are very naive. China is heavily invested in the business interests you mention, and is not even remotely ashamed to promote candidates who will further those interests, just as we did when our opinion still mattered in Africa.

As to why you think foreign money had anything to do with Putin's election, I confess I am confused.

 

[barbos]

I'm pretty sure the concern is over foreign governments, not foreign facts. If you want to see what it is like when the gate to foreign interference is swung wide open, one need only look at how the United States and China cynically manipulate the electoral politics of the places they call the "third world"; really, just those places too impoverished to turn down supposed help from dubious sources.

China does not manipulate the 3rd world elections much. They seem to be more interested in economy.
And Russia, Ukraine are not a 3rd world, they are historically 2nd world where US manipulate elections.

You either haven't been paying attention to African affairs, or are very naive. China is heavily invested in the business interests you mention, and is not even remotely ashamed to promote candidates who will further those interests, just as we did when our opinion still mattered in Africa.

I mean Chinese are not ideological, they only care for money.

As to why you think foreign money had anything to do with Putin's election, I confess I am confused.

Well, US does support russian opposition with money. Also US helped to reelect Eltsin, and some say Eltsin actually lost to Zuganov and US knew it but were fine with fraud they helped to perpetrate.

 

[Politesse]

You either haven't been paying attention to African affairs, or are very naive. China is heavily invested in the business interests you mention, and is not even remotely ashamed to promote candidates who will further those interests, just as we did when our opinion still mattered in Africa.

I mean Chinese are not ideological, they only care for money.

As to why you think foreign money had anything to do with Putin's election, I confess I am confused.

Well, US does support russian opposition with money. Also US helped to reelect Eltsin, and some say Eltsin actually lost to Zuganov and US knew it but were fine with fraud they helped to perpetrate.

What difference does it make why someone is interfering in an election?

 

[Elixir]

But one thing is clear to me. If it is ok for Israel to influence US politics it should also be ok for Russia and/or China to do the same. Because you would think the same rules have to be applied uniform without bias.

Hear here - Let's bring in Iran, Germany, Denmark and NK on the Democratic side. Surely Putin and his Rethugs won't object...