Free Speech and Nonmember Union Agency Fees

[T.G.G. Moogly]

As much as I disagree with the laws that show deference to unions, I still believe that based on a right to free association and a right to conduct business or refuse to do so, the unions themselves are not a problem. It is their intertwining with politics that is a problem. Of course they have to do so since businesses are also intertwined with politics.

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

 

[dismal]

As much as I disagree with the laws that show deference to unions, I still believe that based on a right to free association and a right to conduct business or refuse to do so, the unions themselves are not a problem. It is their intertwining with politics that is a problem. Of course they have to do so since businesses are also intertwined with politics.

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

Government employee unions are inherently about politics. The union gives money to the politicians that will give more money to the union members. Everybody wins! Unless you're a taxpayer. Or a believer in the government efficiently providing services.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

Wouldn't it be nice if that's what unions were about today? We can only dream. If unions jettisoned politics, including the concept of seniority, I could back them wholeheartedly.

 

[laughing dog]

As much as I disagree with the laws that show deference to unions, I still believe that based on a right to free association and a right to conduct business or refuse to do so, the unions themselves are not a problem. It is their intertwining with politics that is a problem. Of course they have to do so since businesses are also intertwined with politics.

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

Nonsense, most unions do focus on those things, and they are still dying off because of a persistent and concentrated effort by business to eviscerate them. Between short-sighted and narrow business interests abetted with conservative anti-labor ideology, unions are fighting a losing battle for survival.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

As much as I disagree with the laws that show deference to unions, I still believe that based on a right to free association and a right to conduct business or refuse to do so, the unions themselves are not a problem. It is their intertwining with politics that is a problem. Of course they have to do so since businesses are also intertwined with politics.

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

Government employee unions are inherently about politics. The union gives money to the politicians that will give more money to the union members. Everybody wins! Unless you're a taxpayer. Or a believer in the government efficiently providing services.

Exactly. This decision will effectively eradicate Public Sector Unions (which are really some of the only unions left) because they have to negotiate with the Government. Now these negotiations will be impossible to distinguish from political speech.

aa

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Is there any topic a union could discuss with management that could not be considered political? I don't think so. That, to my mind, is the rub here.

How about the terms and conditions of employment? How is those items "political"?

I think in the private sector, those would not have to be considered political. However, for public sector unions any discussion of employee benefits or even working conditions could be tied to tax policy (or other public budget considerations) that, now, would be considered political speech.

aa

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

As much as I disagree with the laws that show deference to unions, I still believe that based on a right to free association and a right to conduct business or refuse to do so, the unions themselves are not a problem. It is their intertwining with politics that is a problem. Of course they have to do so since businesses are also intertwined with politics.

Holy shit! Not often we agree. Unions should be about worker safety, job security, health, a decent wage, etc. and initially they were just that. If they had kept their focus on these things they would be thriving.

Nonsense, most unions do focus on those things, and they are still dying off because of a persistent and concentrated effort by business to eviscerate them. Between short-sighted and narrow business interests abetted with conservative anti-labor ideology, unions are fighting a losing battle for survival.

I have worked in many different union environments as both management and union and will respectfully disagree with you based simply on what I experienced.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there any topic a union could discuss with management that could not be considered political? I don't think so. That, to my mind, is the rub here.

How about the terms and conditions of employment? How is those items "political"?

I think in the private sector, those would not have to be considered political. However, for public sector unions any discussion of employee benefits or even working conditions could be tied to tax policy (or other public budget considerations) that, now, would be considered political speech.

aa

I understand that argument, I just think it is utterly ridiculous. I know from 20+ years of experience in public union bargaining, that when we bargain, we do ask or recommend how any contract is going to be financed, because that is not our problem. Management has a budget target in mind and how to achieve it before they start bargaining.

 

[dismal]

Government employee unions are inherently about politics. The union gives money to the politicians that will give more money to the union members. Everybody wins! Unless you're a taxpayer. Or a believer in the government efficiently providing services.

Exactly. This decision will effectively eradicate Public Sector Unions (which are really some of the only unions left) because they have to negotiate with the Government. Now these negotiations will be impossible to distinguish from political speech.

aa

Yes, of course, without the ability to compel people to pay for them to advocate decisions they disagree with public sector unions are dead in the water.

So now, without the noble protection of the super-union friendly government that supports unions these poor public employees will be at the mercy of the greedy and evil government that employs them.