DBT
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An Omniscient Entity cannot be Omniscient yet not know something that is knowable. Just like you can't have square circles. You contradict the given definition and descend into absurdity.
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Free-will and ALL knowing's God can they coexist ?
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An Omniscient Entity cannot be Omniscient yet not know something that is knowable. Just like you can't have square circles. You contradict the given definition and descend into absurdity.
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Marty McFly travels forward in time in his Delorean time machine and sees Biff Tannen at the diner ordering a chocolate malt. Biff doesn't notice Marty and is completely unaware that his choice of chocolate instead of strawberry has been observed.
Did Marty McFly travelling to the future, somehow magically impose a limit or pre-destiny on Biff's choice in any way?
When Marty goes back in time and claims to know that Biff will choose a particular flavor, how can that affect Biff's freewill if Biff himself doesn't even know who Marty McFly is?
See, nobody has shown how God's potential knowledge of a future event causally compels that event to take place. People just keep claiming (special pleading) that to be the case but nobody has explained the necessity for that to be the only possible state of affairs.
Did Marty McFly travelling to the future, somehow magically impose a limit or pre-destiny on Biff's choice in any way?
When Marty goes back in time and claims to know that Biff will choose a particular flavor, how can that affect Biff's freewill if Biff himself doesn't even know who Marty McFly is?
See, nobody has shown how God's potential knowledge of a future event causally compels that event to take place. People just keep claiming (special pleading) that to be the case but nobody has explained the necessity for that to be the only possible state of affairs.
DBT
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I don't think a Hollywood movie a good source of information on the nature of time/space or the concept of Omniscience in relation to past, present and future events.
I don't think that anyone said anything about compel. Absolute Knowledge doesn't say anything about compelling or causing events. It may be entirely passive knowledge. Like watching an Ant Colony and knowing the ants are gathering food, breeding, dying, etc.
DBT
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This ignores how decisions are actually made, the means, the mechanisms, the context in relation to external events and internal processes that shape and form the decision in conscious form. You only refer to the conscious experience, ignoring its underlying unconscious means and mechanisms.
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DBT
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You yourself are redefining volition to mean what you want it to mean.....which does not mean that believing something is true makes it true.
Just believing that something is true is not sufficient justification.
Nor does volition entail 'puppet strings' but the means by which conscious experience is formed, which is not a magical experience that pops into existence without a mechanism. Conscious experience being inseparable from its underlying mechanism means that there is no 'puppet' or puppeteer. It is one and the same process.
Volition - the cognitive process by which an organism decides on and commits to a particular course of action - Wiki.
Volitional control of movement:
Clinical Neurophysiology , Volume 118 , Issue 6 , Pages 1179 - 1192
M . Hallett
Abstract
This review deals with the physiology of the initiation of a voluntary movement and the appreciation of whether it is voluntary or not. I argue that free will is not a driving force for movement, but a conscious awareness concerning the nature of the movement. Movement initiation and the perception of willing the movement can be separately manipulated. Movement is generated subconsciously, and the conscious sense of volition comes later, but the exact time of this event is difficult to assess because of the potentially illusory nature of introspection. Neurological disorders of volition are also reviewed. The evidence suggests that movement is initiated in the frontal lobe, particularly the mesial areas, and the sense of volition arises as the result of a corollary discharge likely involving multiple areas with reciprocal connections including those in the parietal lobe and insular cortex.''
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Exactly.
If God said thou shalt not kill, and yet we kill, this proves we are free to disobey.
DBT
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Exactly.
If God said thou shalt not kill, and yet we kill, this proves we are free to disobey.
Goodbye Omniscience. Your god is just as much in the dark as its believers. Plus you still ignore verses to the contrary, claiming god knows the end from the beginning....and of course, how decisions are made, not being separate from the non chosen psychology, character, genetic makeup, environment, etc, of the individual/brain that decides on the basis of a given set of criteria. Sorry, but you have no case to argue.
Exactly.
If God said thou shalt not kill, and yet we kill, this proves we are free to disobey.
Goodbye Omniscience. Your god is just as much in the dark as its believers. Plus you still ignore verses to the contrary, claiming god knows the end from the beginning....and of course, how decisions are made, not being separate from the non chosen psychology, character, genetic makeup, environment, etc, of the individual/brain that decides on the basis of a given set of criteria. Sorry, but you have no case to argue.
god does knows destiny of mankind but he chose not to know single individual destiny
atheist makes god so big that he cant exist
bilby
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Logic makes gods that have to choose between being so big that they can't exist, or so small that they are unworthy of our notice (much less our reverence).
There's no gap left in the middle; a god worthy of the name god needs to be too powerful to be real. That's not the doing of atheists - it's just a sound logical reason for being an atheist.
DBT
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Either god is Omniscient or it is not. It is not atheists who are making the claim. You can't claim that an Omniscient god know x but doesn't know y. That is not Omniscience.
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And yet only one is needed.
Lack of evidence.
Lack of evidence.
the only evidence you will accepted when you met god face to face
James Brown
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That's like saying if somebody thinks that they're Napoleon Bonaparte we should give them control of the French army because their belief in that is sufficient to treat it as factual.
The question is not whether or not people think they have free will or whether or not they can be convinced one way or the other about it, but whether or not they actually do.
he promised one day you will meet him face to face
Ya, and that bitch Jenny Malloy promised me that she'd call me when she has a free evening and we'd get together for a drink. Well, it's been twenty fucking years and I'm supposed to believe that she hasn't had one free evening in all that time? Goddamned whore.
Your Allah is the Jenny Malloy of deities.