Fruits of "defunding police" ...

[Derec]

As violence surges, some question Portland axing police unit

When Penney was killed last summer, unrest was roiling liberal Portland as protesters took to the streets nightly to demand racial justice and defunding police. At the same time, one of the whitest major cities in America was experiencing its deadliest year in more than a quarter-century — a trend seen nationwide — with shootings that overwhelmingly affected the Black community. Responding to the calls for change in policing, the mayor and City Council cut several police programs from the budget, including one Yarborough believes could have saved his nephew. A specialized unit focused on curbing gun violence, which had long faced criticism for disproportionately targeting people of color, was disbanded a month before Penney, a 27-year-old Black man visiting from Sacramento, California, was killed on July 25.
[...]
More people died of gunfire last year in Portland — 40 — than the entire tally of homicides the previous year. The number of shootings — 900 — was nearly 2 1/2 times higher than the year before. The spike has continued this year, with more than 150 shootings, including 45 people wounded and 12 killed so far.
Police had warned of possible repercussions of ending the unit, pointing out cautionary tales in other cities that had made a similar choice.
[...]
Wheeler, who is also police commissioner, announced the unit’s disbanding last June and reassigned its 34 officers to patrol. He described it as an opportunity to reimagine policing and redirected $7 million in police funds toward communities of color.
The push was led by Jo Ann Hardesty, the first Black woman elected to the City Council. She cited a 2018 audit showing nearly 60% of people stopped by the gun violence team were Black — though they make up less than 6% of the city’s population.
Nearly half of the 55 total homicide victims in 2020 were people of color, many of them from Portland’s historically Black neighborhoods, according to city statistics.

Hardesty is an anti-police extremist and Wheeler is a spineless idiot for caving in to her. There is a lot of blood on both their hands.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A trend seen across the nation, regardless of ‘defunding the police’?

 

[Patooka]

If law enforcement can't be effective without killing citizens, then it's doing a shit job.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Elixir]

Why are right wingers so obsessed with fruits?

 

[Trausti]

Why are right wingers so obsessed with fruits?

Why do lefty loonies not care about the foreseeable consequences of their policies?

 

[laughing dog]

Why are right wingers so obsessed with fruits?

Why do lefty loonies not care about the foreseeable consequences of their policies?

Why should they be held to a different standard than retarded righties?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Crime rose across the nation during the Trump Administration, regardless of policing policies. This implies the root cause wasn't the policing policies.

 

[Trausti]

Crime rose across the nation during the Trump Administration, regardless of policing policies. This implies the root cause wasn't the policing policies.

Crime was down then spiked up starting May 2020. What happened in May?

 

[Trausti]

Why are right wingers so obsessed with fruits?

Why do lefty loonies not care about the foreseeable consequences of their policies?

Why should they be held to a different standard than retarded righties?

That defunding police would lead to higher crime was obvious to anyone who hadn’t drank the BLM Kool-Aid.

 

[laughing dog]

Why should they be held to a different standard than retarded righties?

That defunding police would lead to higher crime was obvious to anyone who hadn’t drank the BLM Kool-Aid.

In Mn there was no defunding of the police, just talk of it. So your graphic was misleading. The increased crime rate was not caused by defunding of the police. And as JH pointed out, there was an increase in crime during Trump's presidency. According to the dumbass correlation = causation logic, it is just as likely that your preferred candidate caused that jump.

In Mn, there was a reduced police presence on the streets due to injuries, sickness and retirements which may have influenced the uptick in crime. There is no formal analysis of the influences on those retirements of police. Anecdotal evidence from letters to the editor and editorials written by police suggests there are at least two causes driving the retirements: feelings of lack of support for good policing and feelings of lack of support for racist policies.

 

[TomC]

I still don't see an actual response to this.
[MENTION=236]Elixir[/MENTION];
[MENTION=28]laughing dog[/MENTION]; [MENTION=39]Jimmy Higgins[/MENTION];
?

While I agree with the goal of moving towards a better system of keeping society orderly, for the benefit of those of us that have virtually no violent tendencies, punching holes in the Blue Wall is going to have side effects that are easy to predict.

This is also why I oppose BLM. I believe that their goals and methods will result in more young black men dying violent deaths. Since I believe that black lives matter I don't want to see that.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Why should they be held to a different standard than retarded righties?

That defunding police would lead to higher crime was obvious to anyone who hadn’t drank the BLM Kool-Aid.

In Mn there was no defunding of the police, just talk of it. So your graphic was misleading. The increased crime rate was not caused by defunding of the police. And as JH pointed out, there was an increase in crime during Trump's presidency. According to the dumbass correlation = causation logic, it is just as likely that your preferred candidate caused that jump.

In Mn, there was a reduced police presence on the streets due to injuries, sickness and retirements which may have influenced the uptick in crime. There is no formal analysis of the influences on those retirements of police. Anecdotal evidence from letters to the editor and editorials written by police suggests there are at least two causes driving the retirements: feelings of lack of support for good policing and feelings of lack of support for racist policies.

This was posted while I was writing my own. Sorry.
And, once again, sketchy information. I don't live anywhere near Minneapolis, so I've no handle on the nuances.

But I stand by what I said. If Minneapolis police feel caught between BLM and the city council morale is going to drop. Cops are people too. Lowered morale is going to result in lackadaisical performance. That's not hard to understand.

If the biggest violent threat to black folks is other black folks, and black folks demand that the cops back off, and the city government doesn't support the cops, the cops probably will back off. And that's a bad thing for the peaceable, law abiding, majority of black folks.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In Mn there was no defunding of the police, just talk of it. So your graphic was misleading. The increased crime rate was not caused by defunding of the police. And as JH pointed out, there was an increase in crime during Trump's presidency. According to the dumbass correlation = causation logic, it is just as likely that your preferred candidate caused that jump.

In Mn, there was a reduced police presence on the streets due to injuries, sickness and retirements which may have influenced the uptick in crime. There is no formal analysis of the influences on those retirements of police. Anecdotal evidence from letters to the editor and editorials written by police suggests there are at least two causes driving the retirements: feelings of lack of support for good policing and feelings of lack of support for racist policies.

This was posted while I was writing my own. Sorry.
And, once again, sketchy information. I don't live anywhere near Minneapolis, so I've no handle on the nuances.

But I stand by what I said. If Minneapolis police feel caught between BLM and the city council morale is going to drop. Cops are people too. Lowered morale is going to result in lackadaisical performance. That's not hard to understand.

If the biggest violent threat to black folks is other black folks, and black folks demand that the cops back off, and the city government doesn't support the cops, the cops probably will back off. And that's a bad thing for the peaceable, law abiding, majority of black folks.
Tom

Okay, so we've gone from the defunding of police led (past tense / established causation) to an increase in crime to people aren't being nice enough to the police and that will likely lead to (hypothesized future outcome) an increase of crime.

 

[TomC]

In Mn there was no defunding of the police, just talk of it. So your graphic was misleading. The increased crime rate was not caused by defunding of the police. And as JH pointed out, there was an increase in crime during Trump's presidency. According to the dumbass correlation = causation logic, it is just as likely that your preferred candidate caused that jump.

In Mn, there was a reduced police presence on the streets due to injuries, sickness and retirements which may have influenced the uptick in crime. There is no formal analysis of the influences on those retirements of police. Anecdotal evidence from letters to the editor and editorials written by police suggests there are at least two causes driving the retirements: feelings of lack of support for good policing and feelings of lack of support for racist policies.

This was posted while I was writing my own. Sorry.
And, once again, sketchy information. I don't live anywhere near Minneapolis, so I've no handle on the nuances.

But I stand by what I said. If Minneapolis police feel caught between BLM and the city council morale is going to drop. Cops are people too. Lowered morale is going to result in lackadaisical performance. That's not hard to understand.

If the biggest violent threat to black folks is other black folks, and black folks demand that the cops back off, and the city government doesn't support the cops, the cops probably will back off. And that's a bad thing for the peaceable, law abiding, majority of black folks.
Tom

Okay, so we've gone from the defunding of police led (past tense / established causation) to an increase in crime to people aren't being nice enough to the police and that will likely lead to (hypothesized future outcome) an increase of crime.

A further increase in crime. Most likely a further increase in crimes against black people.
You can blame that on white racists if you want, but I'm not. Just the opposite, I'm blaming it on BLM and SJWs and other folks more interested in PC optics and virtue signalling than results.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

In Mn there was no defunding of the police, just talk of it. So your graphic was misleading. The increased crime rate was not caused by defunding of the police. And as JH pointed out, there was an increase in crime during Trump's presidency. According to the dumbass correlation = causation logic, it is just as likely that your preferred candidate caused that jump.

In Mn, there was a reduced police presence on the streets due to injuries, sickness and retirements which may have influenced the uptick in crime. There is no formal analysis of the influences on those retirements of police. Anecdotal evidence from letters to the editor and editorials written by police suggests there are at least two causes driving the retirements: feelings of lack of support for good policing and feelings of lack of support for racist policies.

This was posted while I was writing my own. Sorry.
And, once again, sketchy information. I don't live anywhere near Minneapolis, so I've no handle on the nuances.

But I stand by what I said. If Minneapolis police feel caught between BLM and the city council morale is going to drop. Cops are people too. Lowered morale is going to result in lackadaisical performance. That's not hard to understand.

I agree. But that works both ways. Lower morale (i.e confidence in the police) by the population will mean more crime. And the MN police department has had a race relations problem for decades and has a poor history of positively interacting with minority populations. Having more police with bad attitudes will only make matters worse.

This is a complex situation and a complex problem that simply sloganeering on any side will only make matters worse.

 

[J842P]

Okay, so we've gone from the defunding of police led (past tense / established causation) to an increase in crime to people aren't being nice enough to the police and that will likely lead to (hypothesized future outcome) an increase of crime.

A further increase in crime. Most likely a further increase in crimes against black people.
You can blame that on white racists if you want, but I'm not. Just the opposite, I'm blaming it on BLM and SJWs and other folks more interested in PC optics and virtue signalling than results.
Tom

The problem with "defund the police" is that it is a slogan and policy that came about in the police/prison abolition movement. Those are people that literally want to abolish police and prisons. Of course, most people of all races do not support that, and do not support decreasing the numbers of police, or even decreasing their funding. So it was a pretty stupid slogan to get behind.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, so we've gone from the defunding of police led (past tense / established causation) to an increase in crime to people aren't being nice enough to the police and that will likely lead to (hypothesized future outcome) an increase of crime.

A further increase in crime. Most likely a further increase in crimes against black people.
You can blame that on white racists if you want, but I'm not. Just the opposite, I'm blaming it on BLM and SJWs and other folks more interested in PC optics and virtue signalling than results.
Tom

You are the one bringing race into this, not me. That'd put you in the SJW corner.

I'd also warn you against hypothesizing causes of future potential increases and maybe take a closer look at determining why the crime rate edged up a bit over the few years, though, honestly, the increase was greatly exaggerated by the right wing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, so we've gone from the defunding of police led (past tense / established causation) to an increase in crime to people aren't being nice enough to the police and that will likely lead to (hypothesized future outcome) an increase of crime.

A further increase in crime. Most likely a further increase in crimes against black people.
You can blame that on white racists if you want, but I'm not. Just the opposite, I'm blaming it on BLM and SJWs and other folks more interested in PC optics and virtue signalling than results.
Tom

The problem with "defund the police" is that it is a slogan and policy that came about in the police/prison abolition movement. Those are people that literally want to abolish police and prisons. Of course, most people of all races do not support that, and do not support decreasing the numbers of police, or even decreasing their funding. So it was a pretty stupid slogan to get behind.

The correct phrase was demilitarize the police.

 

[TomC]

The problem with "defund the police" is that it is a slogan and policy that came about in the police/prison abolition movement. Those are people that literally want to abolish police and prisons. Of course, most people of all races do not support that, and do not support decreasing the numbers of police, or even decreasing their funding. So it was a pretty stupid slogan to get behind.

I agree. The slogan "defund the police" is counterproductive and stupid. More resources, so that they can try different methods without compromising the work they do, is more like it.

"Defund the police" sounds too much like "defund Planned Parenthood". While it might make antiabortion folks feel better to say it, defunding PP will predictably result in more abortions. So, it's a stupid idea.
Tom