Goddammit, Microsoft.

[ZiprHead]

I had to restore my Win 10 laptop yesterday. I did a restart and it wouldn't boot to windows. I suspected a bad update. So today it wanted to update again. Same thing. Now I'm sure it was a bad update from Microsoft.

I turned off updates completely.

 

[steve_bank]

That is why I keep update service turned off. I have to check it because Windows will turn it back on.

There are no Windows apps I use so I do not need updates.

All I care about is the software I use runs, which it does.

I have the home addition abd I think the higher version can permanently disable update.

When I had to reinstall Windows it immediately wanted to do updates.

 

[bilby]

There are no Windows apps I use so I do not need updates.

??

If you use Windows at all, you need updates, to prevent some teenager in Russia from turning your computer into a spam server or bitcoin mine.

If you use your computer for anything that you even vaguely would prefer to be private and/or secure, from surfing porn that you would rather your friends and family didn't know about, through to paying the occasional bill or checking your bank balance, then you need updates to avoid being robbed and/or blackmailed and/or publicly ridiculed.

If you use computers, of any kind, that are connected to the Internet, you need updates. Windows computers doubly so.

An unpatched computer connected to the Internet is an invitation to criminals. An unpatched computer running Windows is a magnet for them.

The reason why MS make it so difficult NOT to update your OS is that it covers their arses when (not if) you get robbed or otherwise attacked by cyber criminals - You can't blame their poor security for your woes, if you explicitly stopped them from securing your machines for you.

The reason why MS makes the whole process automatic, is that they know their userbase is full of blithering idiots who genuinely believe utter drivel such as "There are no Windows apps I use so I do not need updates".

 

[ZiprHead]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

 

[Jarhyn]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux. Windows has a tendency to brick itself with updates even when the updates are compatible with the system being updated.

I've had to burn a recovery image and do registry editing before to unfuck updates that fucked up.

 

[Hermit]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux. Windows has a tendency to brick itself with updates even when the updates are compatible with the system being updated.

I've had to burn a recovery image and do registry editing before to unfuck updates that fucked up.

Not my experience.

The problem with Linux is that none of its variants are turnkey systems. You basically have to become a mechanic once you want to go beyond the basic stuff like surfing the internet, emailing, spreadsheeting and doing standard office type tasks.

I tried Linux Mint for a couple of years. Connecting my NAS took half an hour of research and another half hour to follow the procedure necessary to actually effect the connection - which was irretrievably broken when I upgraded from v18 to 19. Even before the upgrade the connection was flaky. It regularly froze. Not only that, it actually froze everything and could only be reactivated by a hard reboot of the computer. By contrast, connecting the NAS with MS-Windows took less than five minutes and the connection never broke. Also, I never managed to get my Linux box to speak with my printer! At one point it actually saw it, but that was as far as it went. All attempts to make it as much as printing out a test page failed.

Linux is not a suitable product for the masses. That is why it owns 2.8% of the global desktop operating system market despite being freeware. Apple's OS has 14.5% and Microsoft's share is 75.3%. (Link)

 

[Jarhyn]

Ubuntu is a lot more turnkey than most, and mint has gotten better, but yes, having a system that always works well with no maintenance is not going to happen. It's not even really possible.

4 billion years of evolution didn't bring us that.

7 billion people working in parallel towards turnkey systems didn't bring us that.

You will not find it because it cannot exist.

It cannot exist because adversarial challenge exists. To have a general turnkey system, you have to upgrade the hardware against issues and remove deprecated stuff. This means obsolescence of hardware. Period.

Only when you get into non-turnkey "mechanic" systems does interest abound in solving just your problem or the vulnerabilities of old hardware, and that interest does not coincide with the turnkey ecosystem.

Ala Carte just doesn't mesh well with Simple Menu. It's a mutually exclusive difference, in fact.

So either you accept buying new machines and chucking the old ones, or you accept being part of the Mechanic's ecosystem.

 

[steve_bank]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

Search on windows selective update.

 

[Hermit]

Compared to the offerings of Microsoft and Apple none of the Linux variants are anywhere near turnkey systems. Until they are they will remain on the fringe. People don't want to become computer mechanics in order to do stuff.

 

[Jarhyn]

Compared to the offerings of Microsoft and Apple none of the Linux variants are anywhere near turnkey systems. Until they are they will remain on the fringe. People don't want to become computer mechanics in order to do stuff.

My point was that the stuff they are asking to do only exists on the far side of the valley from where they stand.

You can't both have the luxury of a 'turnkey' system, and the affordability and long-term usefulness of a system that is maintained skillfully.

These are mutually exclusive requests.
It's a lot like living in apartments vs having a mortgage. You're not going to find an apartment that has no "apartment problems", because one of those problems is you don't get to maintain it yourself... but you avoid being responsible to fix them, and do none of that work. OR you can have a mortgage where all the problems can be fixed... By you, or someone you hire to fix them.

 

[Hermit]

You can't both have the luxury of a 'turnkey' system, and the affordability and long-term usefulness of a system that is maintained skillfully.

These are mutually exclusive requests.

Most home users opt for the turnkey systems because they are unwilling to become mechanics. That is the brute reality reflected by the market shares of the various operating systems. Telling anyone of the 75.3% people whose computers run MS Windows to switch to Linux founders on that. Unix and its many Linux offshoots are vastly more robust and secure OSs, but until they become more consumer friendly - that is to say turnkey systems - are going to remain on the fringe of the market. You are not going to convince many home users to switch to Linux if it means they have to become mechanics and spend hours getting their hands dirty working under the hood.

 

[Jarhyn]

You can't both have the luxury of a 'turnkey' system, and the affordability and long-term usefulness of a system that is maintained skillfully.

These are mutually exclusive requests.

Most home users opt for the turnkey systems because they are unwilling to become mechanics. That is the brute reality reflected by the market shares of the various operating systems. Telling anyone of the 75.3% people whose computers run MS Windows to switch to Linux founders on that. Unix and its many Linux offshoots are vastly more robust and secure OSs, but until they become more consumer friendly - that is to say turnkey systems - are going to remain on the fringe of the market. You are not going to convince many home users to switch to Linux if it means they have to become mechanics and spend hours getting their hands dirty working under the hood.

My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.

 

[Hermit]

My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.

Your original point was this:

If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux.

I replied by pointing out why nobody takes heed of your recommendation.

 

[Jarhyn]

My point is that here, someone asked for "mechanic" powers without being willing to do "mechanic" work. My point, my only point really, was to point out the valley and why it's not such an easy problem, and that the path forward on their side of the divide is "buy new and accept updates."

If it is required to not buy new and not have automatic updates, then it is required to be a mechanic. It takes more skill, and more bullshit non-generalizable skill to hack around in Windows to do shit like that than it takes to learn basic mechanics of a Linux system.

Your original point was this:

If you really want a system which doesn't break when it updates, move to Linux.

I replied by pointing out why nobody takes heed of your recommendation.

And why I say "if you want that feature, be a mechanic. Otherwise..." Is because I don't expect people to "heed" my rhetorical "recommendation" because it's more a statement that their option is most likely going to only be "buy new hardware".

Hence why I point out the valley where, on this side of the valley, high in the peaks, lives The City of Deprecated Hardware.

It's either updates+EoS, mechanics, or the badlands.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

That is why I keep update service turned off. I have to check it because Windows will turn it back on.

There are no Windows apps I use so I do not need updates.

All I care about is the software I use runs, which it does.

I have the home addition abd I think the higher version can permanently disable update.

When I had to reinstall Windows it immediately wanted to do updates.

Can one set up a firewall to dump Microsoft updates to the bit bucket? Since I don't use Mickeysoft, I don't know. I am too lazy to google for this.

 

[lpetrich]

I'm a user of Apple and Android, and these platforms make upgrading voluntary. My iPad won't upgrade unless it is either more than half-charged or plugged into a charger.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

After a brief google, a popular way of dealing with internet garbage is Pihole. A firewall running on a Raspberry Pi. Pihole can blacklist MS updates and send them to the bit bucket.

My brother has a Raspberry Pi which he gave up on. I might grab it to kill offensive ads, etc.

 

[ZiprHead]

After a brief google, a popular way of dealing with internet garbage is Pihole. A firewall running on a Raspberry Pi. Pihole can blacklist MS updates and send them to the bit bucket.

My brother has a Raspberry Pi which he gave up on. I might grab it to kill offensive ads, etc.

I've heard pihole works great at killing youtube ads.

 

[ZiprHead]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

Search on windows selective update.

I don't think that's going to help. I can't know an update will trash my system until I install it.

 

[steve_bank]

Bilby, I understand the reasoning behind the automatic updates. But I don't see how I can skip just this one and move onto the next, which would most likely require this one to work.

Search on windows selective update.

I don't think that's going to help. I can't know an update will trash my system until I install it.

I am no longer current, bu that is why you need to establish a restore point.

That is the problem, you can't know until you install it.

Windows is a complex asynchronous system. It is very difficult to test it. I am sure MS has a test and release process, but it is impossible to test all possibilities.

Update shoud allow you to go back to tye previous state.

As always back up data before an update....