Going To Mars

[steve_bank]

How The Universe Works s8 ep5

https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/how...sode-5-season-8/nasas-journey-to-mars/309432/

Watched this last night. There are some show stoppers NASA is working on.

The Martian soil is toxic to humans for one.

Dust storms. It looks lke no matter where solar panels are puit there can be long lasting dust storms blocking light. The Odyssey rover was engulfed in a storm log enough to deplet reserve power and never came back. Plus the abrasion.

Habitat would most likely have to be undergrounds.

The dust is charged and sticks. Difficult to keep out of habitats. Something I did not know is that lunar astronauts got sick from lunar dust. It also created equipment problems.

The soil is toxic so it is hydroponics for food. An experiment will be landed to convert co2 to oxygen with a form of electrolysis. It does not look good even for a 1 year stay with a small number of people. Water is a big problem. The ISS recycles all forms of water but needs a yearly supply of thousands of ponds of water. The first mission would have to have all the water, oxygen, and food needed for the stay.

 

[rjh01]

Issues
- No real reason for humans to go to Mars. Most things can be done a lot cheaper with rovers
- Radiation could kill the people on the way there.
- Radiation could kill the people on the planet.
- The amount of equipment needed would be enormous.

In short I think this century will end before we get a person to land on Mars and back again safely.

 

[DBT]

You never know.....putting humans on the moon seemed exceedingly improbable for 1969. The scale of a Mars expedition appears daunting, yet it is possible. The toxic dust does not bode well for a long term colony.

 

[Elixir]

You never know.....putting humans on the moon seemed exceedingly improbable for 1969. The scale of a Mars expedition appears daunting, yet it is possible. The toxic dust does not bode well for a long term colony.

The "goal" is to put human footprints on Mars in the 2030s. Maybe they'll ... send a human foot?
I think I saw what Steve_Bank saw. It ended with a short caveat that a lunar base, or a base orbiting the Moon will be a prerequisite. IMO, might as well go to Enceladus or Titan or somewhere where humans could possibly survive.

 

[skepticalbip]

Issues
- No real reason for humans to go to Mars. Most things can be done a lot cheaper with rovers
- Radiation could kill the people on the way there.
- Radiation could kill the people on the planet.
- The amount of equipment needed would be enormous.

In short I think this century will end before we get a person to land on Mars and back again safely.

I think you are mistaken. You could be right if we had to depend on government doing the job but there are individuals with the dream and means to accomplish it. Elon Musk has set it as his goal and Richard Branson is determined to do it too. I think there is a good chance that there will be footprints on Mars this decade.

 

[Elixir]

Issues
- No real reason for humans to go to Mars. Most things can be done a lot cheaper with rovers
- Radiation could kill the people on the way there.
- Radiation could kill the people on the planet.
- The amount of equipment needed would be enormous.

In short I think this century will end before we get a person to land on Mars and back again safely.

I think you are mistaken. You could be right if we had to depend on government doing the job but there are individuals with the dream and means to accomplish it. Elon Musk has set it as his goal and Richard Branson is determined to do it too. I think there is a good chance that there will be footprints on Mars this decade.

They better get busy then, if the plans all include a staging facility beyond LEO. Turning the Moon into a tourist trap might be a viable first step.
I've literally had dreams, and MANY daydreams of flying in an enclosed air filled lunar gravity environment, ever since reading about the idea almost 60 years ago in a sci-fi story (Menace from earth or Moon is a Harsh Mistress - I forget). I think it would be a great draw.

 

[skepticalbip]

Issues
- No real reason for humans to go to Mars. Most things can be done a lot cheaper with rovers
- Radiation could kill the people on the way there.
- Radiation could kill the people on the planet.
- The amount of equipment needed would be enormous.

In short I think this century will end before we get a person to land on Mars and back again safely.

I think you are mistaken. You could be right if we had to depend on government doing the job but there are individuals with the dream and means to accomplish it. Elon Musk has set it as his goal and Richard Branson is determined to do it too. I think there is a good chance that there will be footprints on Mars this decade.

They better get busy then, if the plans all include a staging facility beyond LEO. Turning the Moon into a tourist trap might be a viable first step.
I've literally had dreams, and MANY daydreams of flying in an enclosed air filled lunar gravity environment, ever since reading about the idea almost 60 years ago in a sci-fi story (Menace from earth or Moon is a Harsh Mistress - I forget). I think it would be a great draw.

Actually, I am a bit surprised at how fast these private concerns are developing the technology. Musk already has capability that outstrips NASA. His Falcon Heavy has twice the lift capability of NASA's largest, the Delta IV Heavy, and at one third the cost.

These private concerns' plans too are impressive and seem awfully ambitious:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jul/09/richard-branson-virgin-galactic-go-public

...
In December, Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo craft reached the edge of space for the first time, and a test flight in February carried a first passenger – Beth Moses, formerly of Nasa and now Virgin’s chief astronaut instructor.

Branson said the flotation could allow Virgin to invest in more craft, stealing a further march on the tech billionaires also in the space race – albeit ones who are aiming to go further into the final frontier. Blue Origin is targeting the moon for passenger trips by 2024.

Meanwhile, Musk has Mars in his sights, with SpaceX planning its first cargo mission to the red planet in 2022, with a crewed mission to follow two years later.

Musk’s rockets already supply the International Space Station, a destination some way beyond the altitude of Branson’s space flights. SpaceX is also planning a passenger flight around the moon in 2023,
...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm opposed to manned missions other than colonization missions.

 

[steve_bank]

Getting a few people to Mars alive is not the problem. It is surviving a year.

I would have triple redundancy. Three separate ships capable of supporting the entire number of people. The term X Factor came out of experimental flight testing at Edwards. There can always be unexpected variables. Chuck Yeager talked about it in his book.

To fully test environmental systems on the moon would take decades.

 

[DBT]

Given the conditions of toxic soil and radiation on Mars, it looks like finding new real estate when we run out of room or resources on Earth in next few centuries, is going to be a hard task.

 

[bilby]

Solar panels? What, is the plan to send hippies?

If you want reliable electrical power, plus plenty of heat for your Mars mission (and you do), then RTGs are the way to get these things.

Solar panels are a very poor choice for any mission to the surface of a body with an atmosphere and a day-night cycle (including the Earth).

The Curiosity rover is powered by an RTG using less than 5kg of fuel, designed to produce 110W of electrical energy at the start of the mission, and over 100W after its fourteen year minimum lifespan (show me a solar panel that can get close to that longevity and reliability). It also produces 2kW of heat output continuously, which is used to keep the rover at its optimum operating temperature, despite the very cold conditions (show me a solar panel that provides heat and power all night, and regardless of atmospheric dust etc.).

RTGs have also been very successful for power and heat to remote arctic stations in Russia. Anyone planning a manned mission to the Martian surface would be crazy not to include a number of these lightweight, ultra reliable, and long-lived power sources.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Issues
- No real reason for humans to go to Mars. Most things can be done a lot cheaper with rovers

There is one reason I can think of, the asteroid belt and precious metals. Mars could present an opportunity as a mining processing plant. It would be incredibly difficult, but based on the precious metal resources available in the asteroid belt, there is money out there to be had. What I don't know if we can use Mars to sling a ship to an asteroid, do something, and then get back to Mars wherever it is revolution wise in its orbit of the Sun. Or maybe just set up x number of mining facilities which are scheduled to rendezvous with Mars at specific times when the red planet is getting close by.

 

[skepticalbip]

^ ^
Musk's idea is colonization so that Mars becomes a "lifeboat" so humanity doesn't become extinct in a possible global catastrophe (possibly like the one that ended the cretaceous period).

 

[steve_bank]

At a tipping point there cooed be a rapid decline in population.

I think something like that will happen before Mars real estate becomes an option for growth. It is reported in Australia towns are barricading roads to keep outsiders from taking water.

The projections say we are headed towards becoming a net food importer. It does not get attention, we have a water crisis unrelated to a drought. California agriculture is facing water problems already.

 

[Peez]

At a tipping point there cooed be a rapid decline in population.

I think something like that will happen before Mars real estate becomes an option for growth. It is reported in Australia towns are barricading roads to keep outsiders from taking water.

The projections say we are headed towards becoming a net food importer. It does not get attention, we have a water crisis unrelated to a drought. California agriculture is facing water problems already.

 

[steve_bank]

At a tipping point there cooed be a rapid decline in population.

I think something like that will happen before Mars real estate becomes an option for growth. It is reported in Australia towns are barricading roads to keep outsiders from taking water.

The projections say we are headed towards becoming a net food importer. It does not get attention, we have a water crisis unrelated to a drought. California agriculture is facing water problems already.

I will not likely be around as it starts to really worsen affecting water and food supplies for us in the USA and elsewhere in the industrialized world. If you are in your 30s or younger it will be you who will bear the brunt of it.

Laugh it up while you can. Part of the problem is not enough people are taking it seriously. 'What me worry? 'Alfred E Neuman.

 

[DBT]

Some even argue that there is no problem, that everything is under control....so I guess we just strap in and enjoy the ride to whatever eventuates.

 

[bilby]

At a tipping point there cooed be a rapid decline in population.

I think something like that will happen before Mars real estate becomes an option for growth. It is reported in Australia towns are barricading roads to keep outsiders from taking water.

The projections say we are headed towards becoming a net food importer. It does not get attention, we have a water crisis unrelated to a drought. California agriculture is facing water problems already.

I will not likely be around as it starts to really worsen affecting water and food supplies for us in the USA and elsewhere in the industrialized world. If you are in your 30s or younger it will be you who will bear the brunt of it.

Laugh it up while you can. Part of the problem is not enough people are taking it seriously. 'What me worry? 'Alfred E Neuman.

Drinkable water can be had for about $0.50 a cubic metre (265 US gal), from desalination. And that's the price AFTER pumping it to the top of a nearby mountain, so it's available a long way inland if required.

And it could be a lot cheaper with a few existing power, osmosis, pumping, and storage options - but we are not bothering with those improvements, because there's no demand - drinkable water practically falls from the sky for free.

If, as, and when the free stuff ain't available, we are not going to run out. We will barely need to tighten our belts.

Most of Australia's capital cities have desalination plants that are frequently shut down due to insufficient demand for water.

 

[steve_bank]

Some even argue that there is no problem, that everything is under control....so I guess we just strap in and enjoy the ride to whatever eventuates.

Those of us in the powerless masses have always eat, drink, and make the best of it. It seems like the inertia of social and economic forces began back at the beginning of it all.

 

[DBT]

Some even argue that there is no problem, that everything is under control....so I guess we just strap in and enjoy the ride to whatever eventuates.

Those of us in the powerless masses have always eat, drink, and make the best of it. It seems like the inertia of social and economic forces began back at the beginning of it all.

It appears so.