Got laid off due to corona - feel like suing

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I just got laid off because my boss fears the worst from the corona virus. Offices are in Washington State, which is an “at-will” state, so not sure if I have any leg to stand on. Any lawyers in the house?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

PA is also an "at will" state, at least the last company I worked for reminded us of that from time to time.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sue for what? I see no unjust dismissal. Shutdowns are going to be a serious problem for a lot of businesses. We are going to see a lot of people laid off because businesses don't have the cash to keep paying them.

 

[Tharmas]

Sue for what? I see no unjust dismissal. Shutdowns are going to be a serious problem for a lot of businesses. We are going to see a lot of people laid off because businesses don't have the cash to keep paying them.

I agree. I only work part time and don't really need the money, but in any case my boss told me the other day that I can expect to be laid off sometime in the next few weeks, hopefully just on a temporary basis. It's a company that sells a lot of non-essential retail goods and their sales are understandably dropping like the old rock.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Sue for what? I see no unjust dismissal.

He laid me (and others) off based on fear, not facts. It had nothing to do with my performance. Nothing to do with me at all, actually, other than I was recently hired.

Shutdowns are going to be a serious problem for a lot of businesses.

When it actually becomes a problem, not as a pre-emptive measure based on nothing more than his own hunch.

A hunch that is ironically contradicted by his own business model, as the largest revenue generating part of his organization will only thrive in response to other Americans getting laid off/going into debt AND the product I was hired to develop/market/sell would likewise benefit significantly from a switch to remote workforces.

Unfortunately this all adds up to him being a bad businessman ironically not understanding his own business, or where I can take it, but, again, that's why I need a lawyer.

In short, his actions are not being motivated out of justifiable business concerns. Quite the opposite in fact. And he has partners, so there is the question of unilateral action and whether or not he had the power to act as he has and whether or not I could show his emotion-based actions were detrimental to the company.

We are going to see a lot of people laid off because businesses don't have the cash to keep paying them.

Again, in the future, and then, again, as a matter of demonstrable fact, not pre-emptive irrational fear.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've never heard of being able to sue due to a layoff, but I'm no lawyer. I've almost always lived in an at will state and employers can fire you for no reason in such states, as long as it's not due to anything that violates federal law, like gender or age. But, my sister is an HR expert and she said that filing discrimination suits claims is a joke. The employer almost always wins. Maybe this mess will be short and they will call you back to work soon. If you're an employee and not a contractor, you can at least file for unemployment. I was a contractor in my last job prior to retirement so I had no recourse if they decided they didn't like my work.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I've never heard of being able to sue due to a layoff, but I'm no lawyer.

Me either on both counts, hence the post and the musings and the hope that we have an actual lawyer around that might be able to chime in.

I doubt I'd actually sue, btw. I'm just exploring it because, well, I've now got some unexpected time on my hands.

Maybe this mess will be short and they will call you back to work soon.

I've thought about that, too, though I keep coming back with, other than money, why would I want to work for someone who just shot me in the head, before anything dire actually happened to justify shooting anyone in the head?

And not something less drastic, like half pay or promising I still have a job, but they need to suspend salary for a month or the like, to see what happens. Etc.

Not to mention--but I have--that his businesses will actually thrive in a distressed economy (the primary affiliate is a debt recovery company; my company sells SaaS that helps train call center workforces--among other functions--and I literally just came up with a component that will increase its effectiveness by some 50% with a direct application to remote workers).

So it's not just a capricious, emotion-based move on his part--and bad business sense--it's actually demonstrably detrimental to the parent company and his partners.

 

[Tharmas]

I've never heard of being able to sue due to a layoff, but I'm no lawyer. I've almost always lived in an at will state and employers can fire you for no reason in such states, as long as it's not due to anything that violates federal law, like gender or age. But, my sister is an HR expert and she said that filing discrimination suits claims is a joke. The employer almost always wins. Maybe this mess will be short and they will call you back to work soon. If you're an employee and not a contractor, you can at least file for unemployment. I was a contractor in my last job prior to retirement so I had no recourse if they decided they didn't like my work.

In my state (Texas) you can certainly qualify for unemployment if you're a contractor. I've been a contractor for the last 10-15 years and have collected unemployment between gigs all the time.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

As I understand it, as a contractor you need to make sure to pay into you state's unemployment fund in order to get benefits. Not sure exactly what that entails by state.

 

[Tharmas]

As I understand it, as a contractor you need to make sure to pay into you state's unemployment fund in order to get benefits. Not sure exactly what that entails by state.

Yes. I've always worked as a "W2" contractor, through an agency. If I went on a 1099 I would have had to pay in myself.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've never heard of being able to sue due to a layoff, but I'm no lawyer. I've almost always lived in an at will state and employers can fire you for no reason in such states, as long as it's not due to anything that violates federal law, like gender or age. But, my sister is an HR expert and she said that filing discrimination suits claims is a joke. The employer almost always wins. Maybe this mess will be short and they will call you back to work soon. If you're an employee and not a contractor, you can at least file for unemployment. I was a contractor in my last job prior to retirement so I had no recourse if they decided they didn't like my work.

In my state (Texas) you can certainly qualify for unemployment if you're a contractor. I've been a contractor for the last 10-15 years and have collected unemployment between gigs all the time.

That's interesting. In Georgia, contractors have no rights at all. I only chose to work as a contractor for psychological reasons. The people I worked for are disgusting people, and I didn't want to feel that they had any control over me, but I loved the work, and my patients loved me, so I worked there part time for 18 years. I didn't really have to work and I knew as an RN that I could find another job in days if I wanted to keep working.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He laid me (and others) off based on fear, not facts. It had nothing to do with my performance. Nothing to do with me at all, actually, other than I was recently hired.

Layoffs are never about the worker, but about the situation. If he thought you were a bad worker you would have been fired, not laid off.

When it actually becomes a problem, not as a pre-emptive measure based on nothing more than his own hunch.

You're assuming nothing has happened yet--but markets have been crashing all over the place, why do you assume he doesn't see anything? It might not be visible to you--for example, a decline in orders even though production is still dealing with existing orders.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Layoffs are never about the worker, but about the situation.

True, but the "situation" is usually business related, not irrational-fear of an unknown situation.

You're assuming nothing has happened yet

Nothing that would adversely impact his business has happened yet. Including market fluctuations. Nor would it.

It might not be visible to you--for example, a decline in orders even though production is still dealing with existing orders.

I was at the executive level and know first hand exactly what the existing and pending orders were. Plus, as I've mentioned several times now, both his primary business (debt recovery) and his affiliated business (which I was the Director of Strategy & Development for) will likewise only benefit from the dramatic shift to remote workforces. The software we produce--in particular with the modification I just came up with and implemented--is uniquely suited to both monitor and train at-home workforces.

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

 

[J842P]

True, but the "situation" is usually business related, not irrational-fear of an unknown situation.



Nothing that would adversely impact his business has happened yet. Including market fluctuations. Nor would it.

It might not be visible to you--for example, a decline in orders even though production is still dealing with existing orders.

I was at the executive level and know first hand exactly what the existing and pending orders were. Plus, as I've mentioned several times now, both his primary business (debt recovery) and his affiliated business (which I was the Director of Strategy & Development for) will likewise only benefit from the dramatic shift to remote workforces. The software we produce--in particular with the modification I just came up with and implemented--is uniquely suited to both monitor and train at-home workforces.

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

From what I understand, in at will states, it doesn't matter at all. As long as you cannot show that you were fired for being a member of a protected group, then they can fire you just because they don't like you. Or for whatever whim the owner has.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

True, but the "situation" is usually business related, not irrational-fear of an unknown situation.



Nothing that would adversely impact his business has happened yet. Including market fluctuations. Nor would it.

It might not be visible to you--for example, a decline in orders even though production is still dealing with existing orders.

I was at the executive level and know first hand exactly what the existing and pending orders were. Plus, as I've mentioned several times now, both his primary business (debt recovery) and his affiliated business (which I was the Director of Strategy & Development for) will likewise only benefit from the dramatic shift to remote workforces. The software we produce--in particular with the modification I just came up with and implemented--is uniquely suited to both monitor and train at-home workforces.

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

From what I understand, in at will states, it doesn't matter at all. As long as you cannot show that you were fired for being a member of a protected group, then they can fire you just because they don't like you. Or for whatever whim the owner has.

Evidently the case.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

True, but the "situation" is usually business related, not irrational-fear of an unknown situation.



Nothing that would adversely impact his business has happened yet. Including market fluctuations. Nor would it.

It might not be visible to you--for example, a decline in orders even though production is still dealing with existing orders.

I was at the executive level and know first hand exactly what the existing and pending orders were. Plus, as I've mentioned several times now, both his primary business (debt recovery) and his affiliated business (which I was the Director of Strategy & Development for) will likewise only benefit from the dramatic shift to remote workforces. The software we produce--in particular with the modification I just came up with and implemented--is uniquely suited to both monitor and train at-home workforces.

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

"Software we produce"--you realize this is going to trash the economy and thus cut capital investment??

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

"Software we produce"--you realize this is going to trash the economy and thus cut capital investment??

You realize I JUST explained precisely why trashing the economy will benefit his companies and actually encourage “capital investment” in them during a time when other companies would suffer, but not his??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iow, the situation we are in due to the coronavirus will only increase his profitability--by a huge factor--not decrease it.

"Software we produce"--you realize this is going to trash the economy and thus cut capital investment??

You realize I JUST explained precisely why trashing the economy will benefit his companies and actually encourage “capital investment” in them during a time when other companies would suffer, but not his??

You're assuming more debt collection = more money. I suggest looking up the blood content of turnips.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You realize I JUST explained precisely why trashing the economy will benefit his companies and actually encourage “capital investment” in them during a time when other companies would suffer, but not his??

You're assuming more debt collection = more money.

You're not understanding how debt recovery works.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You realize I JUST explained precisely why trashing the economy will benefit his companies and actually encourage “capital investment” in them during a time when other companies would suffer, but not his??

You're assuming more debt collection = more money.

You're not understanding how debt recovery works.

The demand for debt collection will go up but that doesn't mean the amount collected will go up.