Harvard Hit With Racial Bias Complaint

[NobleSavage]

From /.

A coalition of 64 organizations filed a complaint against Harvard on Friday alleging the university discriminates against Asian-American applicants hoping to attend classes there. "Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective 'Holistic' college admissions process." One such study shows Asian-Americans had to score an average of 140 points higher than white students on their SAT test to have an equal chance of getting in. The complaint seeks a federal investigation and demands Harvard "immediately cease and desist from using stereotypes, racial biases and other discriminatory means in evaluating Asian-American applicants.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/05/16/2147201/harvard-hit-with-racial-bias-complaint

http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-a...robe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348

 

[Deepak]

 

[thebeave]

I wonder if the Affirmative Action advocates on this board will finally admit they are racists if/when the Harvard "holistic" admission policy has been found by the court to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm not counting on it, actually.

 

[Metaphor]

From /.

A coalition of 64 organizations filed a complaint against Harvard on Friday alleging the university discriminates against Asian-American applicants hoping to attend classes there. "Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective 'Holistic' college admissions process." One such study shows Asian-Americans had to score an average of 140 points higher than white students on their SAT test to have an equal chance of getting in. The complaint seeks a federal investigation and demands Harvard "immediately cease and desist from using stereotypes, racial biases and other discriminatory means in evaluating Asian-American applicants.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/05/16/2147201/harvard-hit-with-racial-bias-complaint

http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-a...robe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348

I predict a couple of responses from the affirmative action supporters to this:

i) Harvard isn't really discriminating by race, it's just that the non-academic qualities it is looking for happen to be negatively correlated with academic qualities, which is why Blacks are highest in these non-academic qualities and Asians are lowest.

ii) Discriminating by race is necessary until every graduating class in every discipline mirrors the ethnic makeup of the general population and anyone who thinks otherwise is racist.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If the Asians didn't want to be discriminated against, then maybe they shouldn't have spent all those hundreds of years oppressing my white ancestors.

This is what they get.

 

[NobleSavage]

One of the comments at /. was that Cal Tech does not take race into consideration for admissions. As a result their student body is 60% Asian and 1% African American.

 

[Metaphor]

I wonder if the Affirmative Action advocates on this board will finally admit they are racists if/when the Harvard "holistic" admission policy has been found by the court to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm not counting on it, actually.

They can't be racists unless they're White, because no non-White person has ever held any position of power or authority in America.

 

[Metaphor]

One of the comments at /. was that Cal Tech does not take race into consideration for admissions. As a result their student body is 60% Asian and 1% African American.

And when California banned race as an admissions criterion, the number of Asian undergraduates increased.

For the affirmative action supporters, this fact isn't evidence that Asians were discriminated against. Or if they were discriminated against, it's okay because Asians are all the same and have no social or leadership qualities, and how can people trust a doctor that doesn't share their ethnicity?

 

[Deepak]

Turning the thread back to Harvard for a second, considering the demographics of the incoming class for Harvard (12% Black, 20% Asian, 13% Hispanic, 2% Pacific Islander/Native American, and 53% White) how exactly is AA, or admissions preference for Blacks responsible for the situation?

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

 

[Metaphor]

Turning the thread back to Harvard for a second, considering the demographics of the incoming class for Harvard (12% Black, 20% Asian, 13% Hispanic, 2% Pacific Islander/Native American, and 53% White) how exactly is AA, or admissions preference for Blacks responsible for the situation?

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

Huh? Depending on how you define 'White', either 77.7% of the U.S. population is White, or 62.6% if Hispanics who also describe themselves as White is taken out (link).

Are you supposing that an incoming class that mirrors the racial makeup of the general population is a sign that Harvard isn't discriminating by race? Since academic aptitude and achievement differ widely by race, there's no reason at all to expect the incoming class to mirror the racial makeup of the general population.

If Harvard did not discriminate by race, there would be more Asian Americans in Harvard. That's certain.

 

[dismal]

From /.



http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/05/16/2147201/harvard-hit-with-racial-bias-complaint

http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-a...robe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348

I predict a couple of responses from the affirmative action supporters to this:

i) Harvard isn't really discriminating by race, it's just that the non-academic qualities it is looking for happen to be negatively correlated with academic qualities, which is why Blacks are highest in these non-academic qualities and Asians are lowest.

ii) Discriminating by race is necessary until every graduating class in every discipline mirrors the ethnic makeup of the general population and anyone who thinks otherwise is racist.

Nah, the trick now is to count Asians as white.

 

[Deepak]

Turning the thread back to Harvard for a second, considering the demographics of the incoming class for Harvard (12% Black, 20% Asian, 13% Hispanic, 2% Pacific Islander/Native American, and 53% White) how exactly is AA, or admissions preference for Blacks responsible for the situation?

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

Huh? Depending on how you define 'White', either 77.7% of the U.S. population is White, or 62.6% if Hispanics who also describe themselves as White is taken out (link).

Are you supposing that an incoming class that mirrors the racial makeup of the general population is a sign that Harvard isn't discriminating by race? Since academic aptitude and achievement differ widely by race, there's no reason at all to expect the incoming class to mirror the racial makeup of the general population.

If Harvard did not discriminate by race, there would be more Asian Americans in Harvard. That's certain.

That's not the contention I was making - nowhere did I state that the incoming class should be a representative sample of the US demographics.

The question I have is if we're truly living in the post-racial world that AA opponents claim we are, one where 'reverse discrimination' is the primary form of discrimination, what explains the over-representation of whites and under-representation of Asians? Maybe I'm misunderstanding how AA is implemented, but if there's no preferential treatment of whites against Asians (and vice versa) then shouldn't they be similarly represented, or alternatively shouldn't there be a larger contingent of Asians here?

Why is AA even being discussed here, when the issue seems to be preferential admissions of underachieving whites with such a stark (> 2:1) ratio? And more specifically, how is this a real counterargument to AA? Assuming all of the black admittees are AA posts, and replacing them all with Asians we'd still have a large imbalance in the admissions.

 

[Metaphor]

The question I have is if we're truly living in the post-racial world that AA opponents claim we are, one where 'reverse discrimination' is the primary form of discrimination, what explains the over-representation of whites and under-representation of Asians?

What are you talking about? What do you mean by 'over-represented'? In what sense are Whites over-represented in Harvard? In what sense are Asians under-represented?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how AA is implemented, but if there's no preferential treatment of whites against Asians (and vice versa) then shouldn't they be similarly represented, or alternatively shouldn't there be a larger contingent of Asians here?

Huh? AA gives the largest preferences to Black students, followed by Latino/Hispanic students. There is a slight disadvantage to White students, and a much larger disadvantage to Asian students.

Why is AA even being discussed here, when the issue seems to be preferential admissions of underachieving whites with such a stark (> 2:1) ratio?

What on earth are you talking about?

And more specifically, how is this a real counterargument to AA? Assuming all of the black admittees are AA posts, and replacing them all with Asians we'd still have a large imbalance in the admissions.

I think you're very, very confused.

If admissions processes were race blind, the number of Asians in incoming classes would increase sharply, and there'd be a slight increase in White admissions. The number of Latino and Black admissions would fall.

Even with active discrimination against Asian students, they're 'over-represented' at University compared to their percentage in the American population. That's because they have the highest academic aptitude and achievement of any racial group.

 

[Deepak]

What are you talking about? What do you mean by 'over-represented'? In what sense are Whites over-represented in Harvard? In what sense are Asians under-represented?

One such study shows Asian-Americans had to score an average of 140 points higher than white students on their SAT test to have an equal chance of getting in.

One would assume, absent bias, that a higher score would give Asian students a commensurately higher chance of getting in.

Again, assuming that all blacks and Hispanics were AA appointments, and removing them from the incoming class - how is this still not a racial preference for whites? Should we believe that AA is causing the disparity? Because I'm not seeing the case.

 

[Derec]

Again, assuming that all blacks and Hispanics were AA appointments, and removing them from the incoming class - how is this still not a racial preference for whites? Should we believe that AA is causing the disparity? Because I'm not seeing the case.

There is a racial preference against whites but not as much as against Asians. Just because 20°F is warmer than 10°F doesn't mean they are not both below freezing. I think Metaphor is right - you are confused about how AA works.

 

[Metaphor]

One such study shows Asian-Americans had to score an average of 140 points higher than white students on their SAT test to have an equal chance of getting in.

One would assume, absent bias, that a higher score would give Asian students a commensurately higher chance of getting in.

Again, assuming that all blacks and Hispanics were AA appointments, and removing them from the incoming class - how is this still not a racial preference for whites? Should we believe that AA is causing the disparity? Because I'm not seeing the case.

Deepak, I'm at a loss to understand your argument. What are you talking about? How does stopping discrimination against Asians mean a 'racial preference' for Whites?

 

[Deepak]

One would assume, absent bias, that a higher score would give Asian students a commensurately higher chance of getting in.

Again, assuming that all blacks and Hispanics were AA appointments, and removing them from the incoming class - how is this still not a racial preference for whites? Should we believe that AA is causing the disparity? Because I'm not seeing the case.

Deepak, I'm at a loss to understand your argument. What are you talking about? How does stopping discrimination against Asians mean a 'racial preference' for Whites?

Let's break this down - is AA a factor between Asians and whites only (completely leaving out Hispanics and Blacks)? Meaning, do white students get a preference on the grounds of AA?

My understanding is not.

So failing that, what can be concluded about the statement I quoted above? What's causing white students to be admitted 2:1 when neither group is preferentially treated under the purview of AA?

 

[Metaphor]

Let's break this down - is AA a factor between Asians and whites only (completely leaving out Hispanics and Blacks)? Meaning, do white students get a preference on the grounds of AA?

Huh?

My understanding is not.

So failing that, what can be concluded about the statement I quoted above? What's causing white students to be admitted 2:1 when neither group is preferentially treated under the purview of AA?

I don't understand anything you're saying. What do you mean by White students being admitted 2:1? What are the groups in your ratio?

 

[barbos]

One of the comments at /. was that Cal Tech does not take race into consideration for admissions. As a result their student body is 60% Asian and 1% African American.

this effect could be amplified by the fact that applicants know this and file their applications accordingly.
I mean Asians apply to places where they have better chances to be admitted and blacks don't because they have lower chances. So in reality disparity is lower.

 

[Deepak]

Huh?

My understanding is not.

So failing that, what can be concluded about the statement I quoted above? What's causing white students to be admitted 2:1 when neither group is preferentially treated under the purview of AA?

I don't understand anything you're saying. What do you mean by White students being admitted 2:1? What are the groups in your ratio?

The question is about as basic as it gets. Do either group get preferential treatment under AA? If not then how is AA a factor?