Health eating isn't always healthy

[Playball40]

There are so many things I would like to scream from the rooftops, but no one really listens. In out 'health, weight obsessed' society (constantly manipulated by the food and diet industry as well as the health insurance agencies), no one really wants to listen. How could they? Our society is "too fat" "eats too much sugar" "eats too much meat" "eats too many carbs" blah blah blah blah blah.............Actually most of the 'science' behind this is BULLSHIT. Even this board, that is obsessed with science, dismisses it and completely buys into the load of CRAP being handed. Doctors aren't always much better. They bought into the BMI myth just like the rest of the population. BMI was never created or intended to be a MEASURE OF HEALTH. It is also changed on a frequent basis so that people 10 years ago with what is considered a "health BMI" are now considered "overweight". Oh, so now the insurance companies can charge you more........see the pattern/correllation? They say you will DIE if your BMI is too high......when actually people with a BMI of 24-26 actually have the greatest longevity statistically. The other nonsense claim is.....oh well his/her BMI is 19 so she's NORMAL AND HEALTHY.....uh no. Not always. Our bodies tend to have a genetic BMI/Weight that is RIGHT FOR THEM. Trying to alter it by too much is going to lead to yo yo dieting, obsessive behavior and more often than not disordered eating and thinking and could lead to even more dangerous and deadly conditions. We all know someone that is morbidly obese. Chances are good this is not due to overindulging or willpower, but rather some underlying condition. If you have a BMI of 20 you are NOT, I repeat, NOT somehow superior, physically or morally to someone else. And maybe, just maybe if we could stop ramming this false information down our youths' throats, the incidence of DEADLY eating disorders will start to diminish instead of continuing to INCREASE.

FTR, EDs kills more people than ANY OTHER MENTAL ILLNESS, including depression.

http://wholewoman.com.au/matters-of-the-heart/when-healthy-thoughts-turn-unhealthy

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

It is a bit of a sick obsession. Dangerous too. Seems its becoming - or has become - endemic. Is it something more than the vulnerable being exploited? Certainly I don't recall hearing of anyone who went on one dietary programme and that was that, ie. they were sorted. It seems that the same people are constantly on one diet or another. Endlessly cycling through one fad after another. Eat less and do some exercise...and keep your mind active...there isn't a great deal more to it I don't think. It needs investment of effort....is it a part of the "I must have it now" reality and that by paying out now it can somehow come magically to fruition? And when it doesn't the process gets repeated in the vain hope that somehow it will be different this time round.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not that 24-26 actually is the best BMI, but that the data is skewed by those with low BMIs from medical problems.

There is also the problem that BMI does not consider build. I'm built large (13EEEE shoes, XXL gloves), my wife is built tiny (she considers rolling up sleeves to make something fit normal. Some T-rex in her ancestry, perhaps?)--it would be unreasonable to expect the same BMI.

 

[bilby]

The slightest familiarity with dimensional analysis would tell anyone who cared that BMI is valueless. kg/m² is not a useful unit when measuring humans. (and BMI is almost always expressed as though it were a unitless index. Presenting figures stripped of their units is a dead giveaway that someone is bullshitting).

 

[Speakpigeon]

I'm good, thanks.

Height: 1.87 meters

Weight: 82 kilograms

Your BMI is 23.4, indicating your weight is in the Normal category for adults of your height.

For your height, a normal weight range would be from 64.7 to 87.1 kilograms.

Maintaining a healthy weight may reduce the risk of chronic diseases associated with overweight and obesity.

For information about the importance of a healthy diet and physical activity in maintaining a healthy weight, visit https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/prevention/index.html.

I'm NORMAL!!!

I knew it!

Well, my weight certainly is normal.

I could even gain five kilos and still be Ok. Arf.


Wait, 65 kilograms would also be Ok!?

No, no way. I weighted 67 when I was a young man (a long time ago) and it wasn't Ok at all.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

The slightest familiarity with dimensional analysis would tell anyone who cared that BMI is valueless. kg/m² is not a useful unit when measuring humans. (and BMI is almost always expressed as though it were a unitless index. Presenting figures stripped of their units is a dead giveaway that someone is bullshitting).

You say that because your BMI is not good.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

It's not that 24-26 actually is the best BMI, but that the data is skewed by those with low BMIs from medical problems.

There is also the problem that BMI does not consider build. I'm built large (13EEEE shoes, XXL gloves), my wife is built tiny (she considers rolling up sleeves to make something fit normal. Some T-rex in her ancestry, perhaps?)--it would be unreasonable to expect the same BMI.

Best BMI is a range, and a large one. I take this to accommodate for built.

But, you can take it as you like.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

I'm good, thanks.

Height: 1.87 meters

Weight: 82 kilograms

Your BMI is 23.4, indicating your weight is in the Normal category for adults of your height.

For your height, a normal weight range would be from 64.7 to 87.1 kilograms.

Another website says my normal weight range would be from 76 to 93 kilograms.

I'm starting to worry you might be right!
EB

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The slightest familiarity with dimensional analysis would tell anyone who cared that BMI is valueless. kg/m² is not a useful unit when measuring humans. (and BMI is almost always expressed as though it were a unitless index. Presenting figures stripped of their units is a dead giveaway that someone is bullshitting).

Actually, it's a pretty good indication for an average person. The problem is those who aren't average will be mismeasured.

 

[bilby]

The slightest familiarity with dimensional analysis would tell anyone who cared that BMI is valueless. kg/m² is not a useful unit when measuring humans. (and BMI is almost always expressed as though it were a unitless index. Presenting figures stripped of their units is a dead giveaway that someone is bullshitting).

Actually, it's a pretty good indication for an average person. The problem is those who aren't average will be mismeasured.

Nobody is average.

The people who developed the BMI measure were explicit that it was only useful for judging health at the population level, and was useless for individuals.

I suspect that they were over optimistic, and that it is not sufficiently useful at the population level as to outweigh the harm done by is misapplication to individuals by idiots and charlatans. It should be scrapped - loudly and publicly.

 

[Emily Lake]

I've never really understood the need for such an inflexible measure.

If you look at me, I'm fat. Doesn't really matter what the metric says - it's clear and obvious. Given my height, I could stand to lose a solid 30 lbs.
My spouse looks pretty good. He's got some cushion around the middle, but he doesn't really look obese - he's a big guy with broad shoulders and a barrel chest. He looks like he's overweight. He could probably stand to lose about 15 lbs.

But if you look at BMI calculations, our BMIs are within 0.2 of each other. How does that make sense?

For comparison... my vet has a chart on her wall of what a healthy cat looks like. It's got general shape examples from underweight to obese. That seems pretty sufficient to me. Why don't we just do that? Visual inspection - Girl, you are FAT. Start exercising... Honey, you are looking GOOD! All done, easy-peasy.

 

[Playball40]

Because truly healthy is what your brain already has programed for you. I know people that "look like they could stand to lose weight" that are VERY healthy and I've seen people that are a size two that are EXTREMELY unhealthy. There is a genetic barometer for weight in your brain and you will be hard pressed to considerably deviate from that without adversely affecting your health.

I've never really understood the need for such an inflexible measure.

If you look at me, I'm fat. Doesn't really matter what the metric says - it's clear and obvious. Given my height, I could stand to lose a solid 30 lbs.
My spouse looks pretty good. He's got some cushion around the middle, but he doesn't really look obese - he's a big guy with broad shoulders and a barrel chest. He looks like he's overweight. He could probably stand to lose about 15 lbs.

But if you look at BMI calculations, our BMIs are within 0.2 of each other. How does that make sense?

For comparison... my vet has a chart on her wall of what a healthy cat looks like. It's got general shape examples from underweight to obese. That seems pretty sufficient to me. Why don't we just do that? Visual inspection - Girl, you are FAT. Start exercising... Honey, you are looking GOOD! All done, easy-peasy.

 

[barbos]

Because truly healthy is what your brain already has programed for you.

Unfortunately this is not true. Brain is programmed to get you fat.
And yes, statistics is lying when it says BMI=25 is the healthiest. The healthiest BMI is ~22.
It's just sick people tend to lose weight and distort statistics because of that.

 

[Playball40]

Nope, you're not correct. You have a genetic weight that is normal/healthy for you. Attempting to deviate too much from that will either way will end up creating unhealthy situations. And BMI is NOT A MEASURE OF HEALTH so your second sentence is just ludicrous.

It's right up there with 'red haired' people are the most beautiful. All subjective and not true.

Because truly healthy is what your brain already has programed for you.

Unfortunately this is not true. Brain is programmed to get you fat.
And yes, statistics is lying when it says BMI=25 is the healthiest. The healthiest BMI is ~22.
It's just sick people tend to lose weight and distort statistics because of that.

 

[J842P]

Because truly healthy is what your brain already has programed for you. I know people that "look like they could stand to lose weight" that are VERY healthy and I've seen people that are a size two that are EXTREMELY unhealthy. There is a genetic barometer for weight in your brain and you will be hard pressed to considerably deviate from that without adversely affecting your health.

What exactly do you mean here? That if you just let people eat whatever they want, it will be difficult for them to deviate from a healthy state? That is clearly contradicted by the epidemic of chronic diseases that are totally preventable (and mostly reversible) by changing diet.

 

[untermensche]

How anybody can think useless body fat is a good thing is beyond me.

Obesity tends to lead to hypertension and diabetes.

It should be avoided.

Anorexia is a psychological problem probably more related to constant advertising and choices for entertainment than BMI indexes.

 

[barbos]

Nope, you're not correct. You have a genetic weight that is normal/healthy for you. Attempting to deviate too much from that will either way will end up creating unhealthy situations. And BMI is NOT A MEASURE OF HEALTH so your second sentence is just ludicrous.

BMI=30 is not healthy no matter what. And yes, I am correct. Any animal will get fat if they are allowed to eat as much as they want. That's evolutionary advantageous when food is scarce which has been the case until recently.

 

[Juma]

How anybody can think useless body fat is a good thing is beyond me.

Obesity tends to lead to hypertension and diabetes.

It should be avoided.

Anorexia is a psychological problem probably more related to constant advertising and choices for entertainment than BMI indexes.

Obesity in itself is not unhealthy (except that extreme obesity gives direct physical issues).
It is bad diet and little physical training that is the problem. Not the amount if fat.

 

[humbleman]

I eat home made food as daily consumption. In my house we used to have a day (Friday) which was called "Junk Food Day", where we bought McDonalds for breakfast and some fried chicken or sandwich for lunch.

The breakfast caused me symptoms like diarrhea, well, I wasn't the only one at home suffering the same. It was like our weekly laxative. Somehow bacteria or some ingredient in that food caused me to have such reaction.

Junk Food Day was necessary, because the body must get used to junk food. You are always exposed to eat junk food when you travel driving a car, when you are with friends going out, etc.

So, to prevent a unfavorable reaction, the body must have some knowledge of that kind of food.

On the other hand, a glass of juice has way more sugar than a soda. Lots of vegetables in restaurants have been sprayed with additives to maintain them fresh. Who knows how long ago the delicious chicken soup has been prepared in a restaurant.

In other words, eating healthy really requires lots of care, taking your own food for lunch time at work, and things like that.

But, lets go further. The chicken you buy at the market is a genetically modified chicken produced in miles long underground factories. These chicken never see sun light, live in cages, fed on food running in a feeder canal in front of them, the poo poo of these chicken goes to a river running under the cages, the poo poo goes to a processor machine which separates 65% of it to be mixed with additives and return back to the feeder canal.

This is how healthy is the chicken sold in most of the USA.

About fish... the same. Growth in pools, where even with the most care, they will end eating their own excrement, plus the water is not purified properly, in other words, that fish is completely different than the one from a natural environment. For example, Salmon from the river has the flesh orange going to red. The fish is not "fat" because travels a lot and the body is "fit", and, of course, "smells".

On the other hand, salmon from pools, are fat, the flesh is from orange to white, and it doesn't have strong smell.

You must pay "extra" to eat "healthy fish".

About fruits, for example. The worst that the food industry has made is producing fruits without seeds. You have no idea how bad becomes eating seedless fruits. You think you are eating "healthy" but seedless fruits lack of ingredients which by nature serve as protectors of your health. When you eat seedless fruits you are eating sugary food only, the natural protection against some diseases is missed.

The food industry practically has destroyed the meaning of "healthy food". The worst is that our bodies get used to junk food and demand the "drug" and reject healthy food. Children will prefer a soda over having a fresh made lemonade or orange juice made with fruits with seeds. As snack sweet cookies will be over an apple, or Doritos over a healthy sandwich with lettuce and tomatoes included.

And about bodies and health.

As long as the individual is not obese, being overweight is not unhealthy. In many cases a heavy body is by inheritance, and there is nothing wrong with the individual but was born with heavy bones and require of more flesh surrounding it. As long as walking, running, playing a sport is a routine, being overweight is not much an issue.

Main thing is what we eat. I myself don't follow rigorously a healthy food consumption, but I don't abuse eating junk food.

I can just suggest you to please yourself considering that what you eat will cause consequences in your body, and if not today, then later on, you will suffer a lot because the poor health in your latter years.

At least, think about it.

 

[Speakpigeon]

How anybody can think useless body fat is a good thing is beyond me.

Obesity tends to lead to hypertension and diabetes.

It should be avoided.

Anorexia is a psychological problem probably more related to constant advertising and choices for entertainment than BMI indexes.

Obesity in itself is not unhealthy (except that extreme obesity gives direct physical issues).
It is bad diet and little physical training that is the problem. Not the amount if fat.

The fat will decide how quickly you'll get eaten by predators.

If you're a predator, then it's normally self-regulating. If you're too fat, it gets tricky to catch you next meal that's usually running away.

Still, doesn't work in our case.
EB