Hezbollah’s Exploding Electronics

[Elixir]

WTF??!!!

“With their pagers out of action after being blasted into tiny pieces on Tuesday, members of Hezbollah were forced to communicate via hand-held radios. Those devices also exploded Wednesday in a devastating one-two punch.“

How the hell? Which one of y’all made this happen, and HOW? (Looking at Loren)
This has to represent a severe impediment to any Hezbollah plans for the near future.
Have they contacted the mfr about their warranties? The people in the supply chain are all playing dumb.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard that they bought the pagers from Boeing.

That said, the death toll and the number injured seems awfully maldistributed. Is Hezbollah not indicating deaths among their ranks and only civilian related collateral damage? Because otherwise, 12 or so including civilians killed seems awfully low. Especially for the alleged number hurt. Yes, I get they exaggerate these numbers, but the death toll isn't is the same ballpark (or even sport) as the number hurt.

The other question is who fed them the line about the cell phones being a problem. I'm wondering if Israel successfully trolled Hezbollah into swapping phones for pagers... and then did this, or whether they got word of the shift in plans by Hezbollah and a light bulb went off.

The great thing here is that Hezbollah has to quadruple think buying any electronic communication device now. It sounds like Israel achieved more in this maneuver than they have in 11 months in Gaza against Hamas. And with a substantially muted amount of collateral damage.

I hope that this isn't something Iran can easily try themselves, regarding miniaturized explosives, not pagers. No one uses those.

 

[Elixir]

That said, the death toll and the number injured seems awfully maldistributed. Is Hezbollah not indicating deaths among their ranks and only civilian related collateral damage? Because otherwise, 12 or so including civilians killed seems awfully low.

Yup. For that to make sense you have to visualize hundreds of Hezzies simultaneously saying "hey, would you hold my pager?"
I doubt that the explosions could be deadly to more than a fraction of people NOT holding the pager.
Nonetheless it certainly would make most of them want to dispose of their comms devices.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And more electronics are exploding in Lebanon.

Explosions went off in Beirut and multiple parts of Lebanon in an apparent second wave of detonations of electronic devices, Hezbollah officials and state media said Wednesday, reporting walkie-talkies and even solar equipment being targeted a day after hundreds of pagers blew up. At least nine people were killed and 300 were wounded, the Health Ministry said.

Several blasts were heard at the funeral in Beirut for three Hezbollah members and a child killed by exploding pagers the day before, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene. An AP photographer in the southern coastal city of Sidon saw a car and a mobile phone shop damaged after devices exploded inside of them.

A Hezbollah official told the AP that walkie-talkies used by the group exploded. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. Lebanon’s official news agency reports that solar energy systems exploded in homes in several areas of Beirut and in southern Lebanon, wounding at least one girl.

Wow! And the IDF is now kind of implying this is a new wave. It seemed like Hezbollah was going to have to wonder where they'd get new stuff. Problem updated in that the problem is they need to wonder about any of the stuff they have now!

This is going to create a blackout on communications for Hezbollah, making one wonder what Mossad has in mind unless, they are just happy making Hezbollah wonder about how safe anything with a chip in it is in their possession.

 

[steve_bank]

War brings out creativity and ingenuity.

To me it says Israel is worried and getting desperate. They can not achieve goals despite mass bombings and killings.

From reporting Hezbollah is well armed and trained, in a fill scale war Israel would not have it so easy. And that Hezbollah has large stockpiles of misses and rockets.

A supersonic missile supplied to Yemen penetrated Israeli air defenses. Who knows what Hezbollah has.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/missile-fired-yemen-set-off-sirens-central-israel-military-says-2024-09-15/

JERUSALEM, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would inflict a "heavy price" on the Iran-aligned Houthis who control northern Yemen, after they reached central Israel with a missile on Sunday for the first time.
Houthi military spokesman Yahya Sarea said the group struck with a new hypersonic ballistic missile that travelled 2,040 km (1270 miles) in just 11 1/2 minutes.
An Israeli military official said the missile was hit by an interceptor and fragmented in the air, rather than being completely destroyed.

How many combat troops does Israel have?
169,500

Estimates vary widely, but as of October 2021, Hezbollah's leader Hassan Nasrallah claimed his organization has 100,000 trained fighters.

I think Israel is sowing the seeds of its own destruction.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

War brings out creativity and ingenuity.

To me it says Israel is worried and getting desperate. They can not achieve goals despite mass bombings and killings.

What are you talking about? They are managing to take out a decent number of Hezbollah folks with virtually no risk to Israeli forces, and relatively small collateral damage. As I noted, this surgical effort likely accomplished more than the IDF has accomplished in 11 months in Gaza! We want surgical and strategic, not blunt and widespread. I imagine Hezbollah are in a panic state at the moment, questioning every single piece of electronic equipment they have.

From reporting Hezbollah is well armed and trained, in a fill scale war Israel would not have it so easy. And that Hezbollah has large stockpiles of misses and rockets.

A supersonic missile supplied to Yemen penetrated Israeli air defenses. Who knows what Hezbollah has.

Too close proximity to Israel to make it useful?

I think Israel is sowing the seeds of its own destruction.

I think Israel is effectively managing a reasonable threat to their security with little in the way of collateral damage. Yes, people have been killed but the numbers are much much smaller.

 

[steve_bank]

Israel is killing a lot of people but seems to me to be sprung its wheels. The beeper bombs to me says desperation. Netanyahu faces prosecution when he is out of office, it is in his interest to keep the war going. But it has backfired, the war is not ending and there is growing demand he step down.

In Vietnam it went to retorting body counts implying we were killing more VC and NVA than they could replace. We lost despite superior weapons. We were always 'winning'.

Israel's treatment of Palestinians created the threat in the first place.

We are mainly hearing the conservative Israeli narrative over here not the Israeli opposition to settlements.

Even as this is all going on Israelis are moving into and occupying Palestinian land.

At his point I see no moral high ground for Israel.

 

[LoAmmo]

If nothing else, maybe the silver lining here is that people will FINALLY slow down and read all the fine print in those “terms and conditions” blurbs instead of just scrolling straight to the bottom to click “Accept.”

 

[ZiprHead]

Well supposedly the devices were built in Orban's Hungary under licence from a Taiwanese company. The manufacturing location, however, turns out to be a just a postal drop with the name of the company scribbled on a piece of paper and taped to the door.

Pretty ingenious idea, though, I must say. They went to pager and walkie talkey use because cell phones can be tracked and targeted.

 

[Rhea]

I’m not following your conclusions here, Jimmy

They are managing to take out a decent number of Hezbollah folks with virtually no risk to Israeli forces, and relatively small collateral damage.

The collateral damage being reported is bigger than than what listed in this thread. And I cannot imagine what Israel thinks they will gain. They killed children by setting off bombs in places where they NO control - making it clear that they did not care if these blew up ~whoever~. I do not see Israel gaining security from this. I see more people hating them for killing civilians, and not caring about it.

 

[Rhea]

From bbc - the number of dead is low, it, it was the number of wounded - some, including more children, severely

Lebanon’s health minister says the number of people killed when pagers used by members of the armed group Hezbollah exploded on Tuesday has risen to 12, including two children and four healthcare workers.

But of the dead, it looks like 50% children and healthcare workers?

Ms Chamoun said the pagers had “emitted a sound before being detonated to encourage people to take them out of their pockets or from their desks and lift them to their heads”.

This is so cold. It’s like ambushing someone from cover in their own town. This beep is what made innocents pick up the devive to hand it to the owners. This beep maximized civilian deaths, instead of making it go off when it was being used.


I just don’t see this as helping Israel’s wish to end fighting.

 

[Elixir]

I imagine Hezbollah are in a panic state at the moment, questioning every single piece of electronic equipment they have.

They'll probably load all their comms devices onto a missile and send it into Israel...

I just don’t see this as helping Israel’s wish to end fighting.

I don't see much indication at all, that "Israel" (Netanyahu) has any such wish.

 

[Bullmoose Too]

I’m not following your conclusions here, Jimmy

They are managing to take out a decent number of Hezbollah folks with virtually no risk to Israeli forces, and relatively small collateral damage.

The collateral damage being reported is bigger than than what listed in this thread. And I cannot imagine what Israel thinks they will gain. They killed children by setting off bombs in places where they NO control - making it clear that they did not care if these blew up ~whoever~. I do not see Israel gaining security from this. I see more people hating them for killing civilians, and not caring about it.

Couldn’t the case be made that Israel committed an act of terrorism?

If Hezbollah, or Hamas for that matter, managed to do something like this, it would be swiftly called terrorism. And rightfully so.

 

[Rhea]

Couldn’t the case be made that Israel committed an act of terrorism?

If Hezbollah, or Hamas for that matter, managed to do something like this, it would be swiftly called terrorism. And rightfully

I agree. If anyone did this it would be an acto of terrorism, and Rightfully So. How is this different than placing land mines?

 

[Derec]

Couldn’t the case be made that Israel committed an act of terrorism?

No. It is a strike against members of a terror organization. No different in principle than droning Al Qaeda or ISIS members, but with less potential for collateral damage because of much smaller explosive charges.

If Hezbollah, or Hamas for that matter, managed to do something like this, it would be swiftly called terrorism. And rightfully

Being terrorists, they would do it with terrorist intent, so duh!

I agree. If anyone did this it would be an acto of terrorism, and Rightfully So.

Whether it is terrorism depends on the choice of targets. Hezbollah indiscriminately targeting Israeli people is terrorism. Israel targeting Hezbollah members is not.

How is this different than placing land mines?

Land mines are generally placed to slow down progress of infantry or armor.
These is a targeted strike against members of an extremst Islamic terror group.
How are these two things alike at all except that they both contain explosive material?

 

[Derec]

They'll probably load all their comms devices onto a missile and send it into Israel...

I know you are probably joking, but it would not be an effective warhead at all. The mass fraction of explosives in these devices is very small.

I don't see much indication at all, that "Israel" (Netanyahu) has any such wish [to end fighting].

Disagree. But neither does Netanyahu want a rotten deal that would involve Israel giving up thousands of imprisoned terrorists in order to free hostages, and with Hamas still in power in Gaza and Hezbollah still threatening from the North.

 

[laughing dog]

Couldn’t the case be made that Israel committed an act of terrorism?

No. It is a strike against members of a terror organization. No different in principle than droning Al Qaeda or ISIS members, but with less potential for collateral damage because of much smaller explosive charges.

If Hezbollah, or Hamas for that matter, managed to do something like this, it would be swiftly called terrorism. And rightfully

Being terrorists, they would do it with terrorist intent, so duh!

I agree. If anyone did this it would be an acto of terrorism, and Rightfully So.

Whether it is terrorism depends on the choice of targets. Hezbollah indiscriminately targeting Israeli people is terrorism. Israel targeting Hezbollah members is not.

How is this different than placing land mines?

Land mines are generally placed to slow down progress of infantry or armor.
These is a targeted strike against members of an extremst Islamic terror group.
How are these two things alike at all except that they both contain explosive material?

If they targeted against members of a terrorist group, no noncombatants are injured. Neither land mines nor explosive communication devices discriminate among combatants and noncombatants. That is how they two are alike.

 

[Derec]

From bbc - the number of dead is low, it, it was the number of wounded - some, including more children, severely

How many children as fraction of the total? And how many were actual children vs. say 16 or 17 year old Hezbollah recruits?
Like the kid on the left, killed during the 2nd wave it seems.

This website identifies him as being born in 2008, which would make him 15 or 16. So he would be classified as "child" when counting casualties, even though he was a Hezbollah terrorist.

I know one of the fatalities of the first wave (pagers) was an actual child - an 8 year old girl. I wonder if she was playing with daddy's Hezbollah-issued pager or what. Note, every military operation has potential for collateral damage. However, this operation most likely caused far less collateral damage than intensive air strikes against Hezbollah would.
The reason there are few deaths compared to injuries is that the explosive charge in the pagers was quite small. Pagers are tiny to begin with, so you can't get much more than a couple of grams.
The second wave, on Wednesday, was more deadly on percentage basis but far fewer devices seem to have been affected. That tracks - the Wednesday wave affected larger devices like walkie talkies and laptops where you can hide bigger charges.

But of the dead, it looks like 50% children and healthcare workers?

I can see how children run some risk if they have the habit of playing with daddy's Hezbollah issued devices. But the effective radius is quite small. You could see it the grocery store footage - people standing next to the target when his pants exploded were completely unscathed. So if healthcare workers died, that means they were using Hezbollah pagers; which means, they were most likely Hezbollah operatives in addition to being healthcare workers.

Ms Chamoun said the pagers had “emitted a sound before being detonated to encourage people to take them out of their pockets or from their desks and lift them to their heads”.

Yes. Which is why there are many injuries to the face, eyes and hands. Lebanese ophthalmologists, maxilofacial and ortho surgeons will be busy a little while. Even Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, who was heavily involved in handling Iranian Hezbollah vassals, reportedly lost an eye.
Iran’s Ambassador to Lebanon Is Injured in Pager Attack, State Media Reports
The whole thing is ingenious really, you take the targets effectively out even if they don't die.
Plus, everybody is now on edge and does not trust their com devices.

This is so cold. It’s like ambushing someone from cover in their own town. This beep is what made innocents pick up the devive to hand it to the owners. This beep maximized civilian deaths, instead of making it go off when it was being used.

They are terrorists. I do not feel bad at all about them being ambushed.
As far as innocents, that is always a risk in operations. Pagers are generally one way devices. You use them by reading messages when they beep (hence the mokiner "beeper").

I just don’t see this as helping Israel’s wish to end fighting.

It significantly weakens Hezbollah. In addition to taking out fighters, the communication among operatives is severely hampered. This may avoid a full out war in the North, or if it comes to pass, it will likely make it shorter.
In any case, this whole thing is on Hezbollah. They decided it was a good idea to start shooting rockets into Israel after the 10/7 massacre.

 

[Derec]

If they targeted against members of a terrorist group, no noncombatants are injured.

Bullshit! No operation is perfect. There is always some collateral damage.

Neither land mines nor explosive communication devices discriminate among combatants and noncombatants. That is how they two are alike.

The big problem with landmines is when they persists after the hostilities are over. That is especially true if no good mapping was done and they were not appropriately removed from the battlefields.
This was a shipment of pagers distributed to Hezbollah members which went off in a coordinated fashion. There will be no exploding pagers left over to step on years or decades later.

 

[Derec]

The collateral damage being reported is bigger than than what listed in this thread.

What percentage of the total is it?

And I cannot imagine what Israel thinks they will gain.

Hezbollah is far weaker now than it was on Monday. That's a win.

They killed children by setting off bombs in places where they NO control - making it clear that they did not care if these blew up ~whoever~.

There is always a danger of collateral damage. But these explosive charges were quite small - even in Wednesday's wave, although they were bigger than the tiny charges set off on Tuesday. That reduces collateral damage. You have to handle these devices yourself to be injured or killed.

I do not see Israel gaining security from this.

Hezbollah cannot communicate effectively. Many of its operatives are in hospital to injures to face and hands or thighs and abdomen, and are effectively taken off the chessboard, at least for a time.
How is that not gaining security for Israel?

I see more people hating them for killing civilians, and not caring about it.

People, especially Lebanese people, should be hating Hezbollah. Hezbollah has brought much misery to Lebanon. Hezbollah decided to continuously shoot rockets at Israel for the last 11 months, and have thereby made Lebanon a legitimate target for IDF. And there is still danger of a more intensive war there. This would cause much more collateral damage than a few family members of Hezbollah terrorists who pick up Hezbollah-issued devices.