How are various religions and cultures coexisting so relatively well in the Americas and much of Europe?

[ryan]

For example, why aren't Sunnis and Shiites fighting each other here? And the most obvious, how are Islamic and Christian people living so peacefully together. It's a fortunate mystery, but it's one that I think is important to understand.

The news reminds us everyday of what could be from such a diversity of cultures and religions. How is it that there is little to no religiously fueled conflict in the Americas?

Hundreds of years from now, what will the historians and sociologists say are the reasons for this fortunate pocket of peace that we enjoy?


My Two Bits

I would like to think that the Western governments have their countries on ingeniously nonintrusive but effective patrols. But this just isn't the case. It would be just too easy for a would-be suicide bomber to get his or her hands on a simple and effective bomb using diesel fuel or pressure cookers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[rousseau]

Law and jails?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Hundreds of years from now, what will the historians and sociologists say are the reasons for this fortunate pocket of peace that we enjoy?

Lawyers.
You don't need to firebomb your opponent if you can just sue them out of business. Or write laws to drive them away.

There's just as much conflict, but it takes place in well-lit rooms with suits and money.

 

[ryan]

Law and jails?

What law or jail will detour suicide bombers from blowing themselves up in order to please their god?

 

[ryan]

Hundreds of years from now, what will the historians and sociologists say are the reasons for this fortunate pocket of peace that we enjoy?

Lawyers.
You don't need to firebomb your opponent if you can just sue them out of business. Or write laws to drive them away.

There's just as much conflict, but it takes place in well-lit rooms with suits and money.

You can't sue a Sunni for being on the "wrong" side of the Islamic faith, at least not that I know. And a lawyer won't get you right with God.

 

[abaddon]

Secular democratic government. So long as no king or would-be king says "This is the religion of the land" there won't be fighting among the sects.

Not "law and jails". All countries have those, they could just as well be used to justify slaughtering people of the wrong religious or secular ideology.

I don't feel like researching it further, for what current scholars say. But, I don't think it's a mystery that will be solved by either chitchat on the Net or by future scholars. IOW, if my answer's not the right one then there already is an answer (or answers) currently, to be found by reading up.

 

[rousseau]

Law and jails?

What law or jail will detour suicide bombers from blowing themselves up in order to please their god?

Quality education systems?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Lawyers.
You don't need to firebomb your opponent if you can just sue them out of business. Or write laws to drive them away.

There's just as much conflict, but it takes place in well-lit rooms with suits and money.

You can't sue a Sunni for being on the "wrong" side of the Islamic faith, at least not that I know.

No, and you can't sue Catholics or Baptists for being on the wrong side of evolutionary theory. But what i'm saying is that for whatever reason, the arena for our conflicts has, for the most part, moved into courtrooms and congress.

I don't think history will look at the current furor over abortion rights, gay rights, evolutionary theory, and space exploration ( http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...e-going-to-hell-anyway/#.U81jU4pmYAg.facebook ) and say we were without conflict. Just that we threw writs and surveys of voters at each other, rather than pipe bombs.

 

[fromderinside]

WTF.

Most of those who live here originally came from people who chose to live here with one major and a few minor exceptions. We're not here for the money, for the the comradeship of faith, for the elitism of superiority, or even for the opportunities. We're here because we believe we have an opportunity to act freely, think freely, move about freely and, in most cases, be considered on most things equally. We are free to start again.

None of those strictures of culture, faith, hatred, dominate. They're just irritations that spice up mostly non-violent disagreements. What matters is that, for the most part, each one of us believes we are important, we will be listened to, we can act as long as we don't inflict ourselves physically on others, as free and more or less equal persons.

We're not the best educated nor do we have the best educations system, the best government, the best marketplace, the most opportunity, the corner on the right faith. We have a bull market on the understanding that we are free and more or less equal.

 

[doubtingt]

Secular democratic government. So long as no king or would-be king says "This is the religion of the land" there won't be fighting among the sects.

Not "law and jails". All countries have those, they could just as well be used to justify slaughtering people of the wrong religious or secular ideology.

^^^THIS^^^

Secularism has been key to most social, moral, and technological advancements in the last few centuries. Laws and jails do no reduce violence in themselves, they can reduce or increase it depending on what determines those laws. Secularism means that no religion can gain control over the powers of the state and use as a weapon against others, which is something that all of the 3 Abrahamic religions ultimately promote because they are tribalistic, authoritarian, and intolerant worldviews that can only be promoted and defended by coercion and violence since they are rationally indefensible. By limiting the use of the politically machinery by religious sects, secularism directly reduces sectarian violence, but also does so indirectly by reducing the strength of people's religious beliefs and thus their desire to use violence to promote or defend them. Since religious beliefs spread via coercion and force, limiting how those can be used limits how well religious beliefs can be imparted and defended against alternative views and information (like science) that conflicts with them. Over time this will weaken the strength of religious beliefs, such that, as we see know, most people who label as being in X type of religion don't actually believe in most of what the religion claims and what they do believe, they are not very sure about. True belief prompts action. Most adherents in secular society don't really act like believers because they don't truly believe enough to motivate action.
I person in Chicago who says they think Jesus is the only way can live and closest friends with a neighbor that says that Jesus was just a prophet and that the true Messiah is still to come. They can do this mostly because neither one really believes those words and don't truly think that it matters one way or the other, although they might be willing to vote against a Jew or against gay rights, thats a rather passive act and takes little commitment.

That said, make no mistake that a large % of Americans, mostly conservative Republicans and especially Tea Partiers do want a religious war in the US and are trying hard (and in some place succeeding) to use the power of the state as a weapon of violence and force against non-believers and other religions. That is why I will always vote against any candidate tied to any party that has those people as their primary base, and wholly reject nonsense that the Democrats are "just as bad" of an option, despite their many many flaws and ties to some of the faith-based anti-science leftist activism that I often wind up fighting on these boards.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe because the conflicts aren't actually about religion.

 

[ryan]

What law or jail will detour suicide bombers from blowing themselves up in order to please their god?

Quality education systems?

Please excuse what I said about your first suggestion. For all I know you were right or at least in part. I guess I was hoping for some kind of definitive answer. But the more I think about this, the more I am realizing that it could be almost anything or everything.

 

[ryan]

Thanks everyone for your replies. They are interesting, and I enjoy reading them.

 

[credoconsolans]

For example, why aren't Sunnis and Shiites fighting each other here? And the most obvious, how are Islamic and Christian people living so peacefully together. It's a fortunate mystery, but it's one that I think is important to understand.

The news reminds us everyday of what could be from such a diversity of cultures and religions. How is it that there is little to no religiously fueled conflict in the Americas?

Hundreds of years from now, what will the historians and sociologists say are the reasons for this fortunate pocket of peace that we enjoy?

Lack of power.

Christianity dominates totally right now. Islam gets along with Christianity because they don't have any numbers behind them, so they basically lay low and put up with a lot.

If you have the numbers of Islam, Sunni or Shiite or hell, Druze, start growing, you will start seeing conflict.

Right now you have some Christians saying their faith is above the law and their morality should be in schools, courts and government. They are usually shouted down and made to feel stupid and saner heads prevail.

Let a population grow of some people who, like evangelicals, are not only strict with their religion, but their religion is also a social structure, but, unlike Christians, are not hemmed in by 'turn the other cheek' and then you will start seeing major problems.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another factor:

Those that move to distant lands tend to be above average people--they're willing to trust in themselves enough to think they can make it in somewhere else where they don't have relatives to fall back on and connections to help them.

Thus the ones that have moved out of Muslim lands tend to be at least somewhat different than those who have stayed behind.

When there is substantial migration it causes major problems for the areas they are moving from. Since it's generally the above average that leave the average of those that remain must fall. As the place they are coming from goes downhill because of this the effect is even stronger. In practice this means that any area with major voluntary emigration (forced relocation is a different matter) is going to be a pretty poor place.

 

[rjh01]

I think credoconsolans is pretty close to the truth. It is pointless for small minorities to start violence or other illegal activities. They will be the main loser. What they might do is fight overseas. Plus most people have access to alternative points of view. This means that radial points of view will only get a small audience.

 

[fromderinside]

Lack of power.

Christianity dominates totally right now. Islam gets along with Christianity because they don't have any numbers behind them, so they basically lay low and put up with a lot.

If you have the numbers of Islam, Sunni or Shiite or hell, Druze, start growing, you will start seeing conflict.

Right now you have some Christians saying their faith is above the law and their morality should be in schools, courts and government. They are usually shouted down and made to feel stupid and saner heads prevail.

Let a population grow of some people who, like evangelicals, are not only strict with their religion, but their religion is also a social structure, but, unlike Christians, are not hemmed in by 'turn the other cheek' and then you will start seeing major problems.

Yet, even with power Christians are only marginally successful in getting doctrinal positions in law and social order here in the US of A-ah. It is certainly not the other cheek that's hindering them since there is ample evidence hatred can turn the cheek into a retaliatory fist among Christians.

Its the explicit secular arrangement of governance that keeps the Huns from the legal gates.

I'm also correcting my earlier post which emphasized freedom over opportunity as the primary pillar of US difference tolerance.

My bride, an immigrant, tells me that freedom never entered her mind when she sought to come to the US as a teen. It was only the history of opportunity and access that motivated her. So I'm adding opportunity to freedom and secularist system design as the pillars for US tolerance.


Happy six hundred to me, happy six hundred to me.......

 

[ryan]

Yet, even with power Christians are only marginally successful in getting doctrinal positions in law and social order here in the US of A-ah. It is certainly not the other cheek that's hindering them since there is ample evidence hatred can turn the cheek into a retaliatory fist among Christians.

Its the explicit secular arrangement of governance that keeps the Huns from the legal gates.

I'm also correcting my earlier post which emphasized freedom over opportunity as the primary pillar of US difference tolerance.

My bride, an immigrant, tells me that freedom never entered her mind when she sought to come to the US as a teen. It was only the history of opportunity and access that motivated her. So I'm adding opportunity to freedom and secularist system design as the pillars for US tolerance.


Happy six hundred to me, happy six hundred to me.......

Happy six hundred! and six hundred more!

Why does opportunity equal peace?

 

[Malintent]

Maybe because the conflicts aren't actually about religion.

EXACTLY!

Suicide bombers are taking the most profitable (or only) course to feed their family. They get paid to blow themselves up and they are so economically depressed, it is better to die that way and feed your family, than for the whole family to die of starvation together.

Hobby Lobby wasn't about right and wrong in a religious sense.. it was about a company that wanted to avoid the cost of healthcare coverage for their employees

The holocaust was not about the "Jews being in the wrong religion". It was about them taking resources as they migrated into Europe.

It's all aobut money. Religion is the excuse used to avoid "greed" as the lable.

 

[ryan]

Maybe because the conflicts aren't actually about religion.

EXACTLY!

Suicide bombers are taking the most profitable (or only) course to feed their family. They get paid to blow themselves up and they are so economically depressed, it is better to die that way and feed your family, than for the whole family to die of starvation together.

Hobby Lobby wasn't about right and wrong in a religious sense.. it was about a company that wanted to avoid the cost of healthcare coverage for their employees

The holocaust was not about the "Jews being in the wrong religion". It was about them taking resources as they migrated into Europe.

It's all aobut money. Religion is the excuse used to avoid "greed" as the lable.

I agree that this is partly true, but let me tell you a story.

I was in my early twenties, and a perfect storm of drugs, partying and laziness sent me into a severe depression. I was too scared to kill myself even though I came close a few times. Feeling that I had exhausted all options to escape the depression, I suddenly started to gravitate to the bible; being raised Catholic, I naturally began with the New Testament.

What started off as a casual read, soon became studying and rereading until I could make sense of it. I decided, after a few weeks of rigorous study, what it all meant; and to this day I understand it at level that most people don't. Jesus was much more strict than I had ever imagined, but being totally committed to gaining entry into heaven, I was willing to do anything. I gave away all of my possessions and even my savings. But I still felt unworthy, and rightfully so given the great demands of Jesus.

However, I did know one way to get into heaven but only as a last resort. In the back of my mind there was a quote from Jesus lingering that guarantees passage through the gates. Jesus explains that giving one's life in his name will gain a life for that person in heaven, and those who don't will lose their life after death which basically means that you go to hell if you have a chance to die for his cause but choose not to take it.

So I thought that the best way to get into heaven would be to go to some strict Islamic country and spread the words of Jesus until I am put to death or die in jail trying. I tried really hard to gain the courage to do it. I spent a lot of time planning it.

Needless to say, I couldn't do it. The day that I decided not to was a very disturbing scene. My parents came home, as I was living with them by then, and they saw me whaling on the ground. I remember feeling this overwhelming pain. It was pain from the decision to live and risk eternal life in hell. I did not sleep for 3 days, and the pain was with me for all three of them. The pain was constant; it actually felt like cold water shocking my body after a hot bath. I eventually got psychiatric help, but I was only diagnosed with depression.

I wish that I could tell you that I am cured from the thought of living in hell for eternity, but it probably won't ever fully leave me. Every once in a while I will do something that Jesus would want me to do; I guess that I do it in hopes that I will somehow get a less cruel hell.

There is something very powerful about religion, especially when one is raised with religion; keep in mind that my parents took the typical approach to practicing Catholicism which is to go to church every Christmas and not eat meat on Good Friday - if someone remembers.