Will Wiley
Veteran Member
How did it happen? 12 months ago the thought would have crazy....wouldn't it?
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How did Donald trump become a serious candidate for President?
- Thread starter Will Wiley
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untermensche
Contributor
Trump is winning in the Republican primaries with Republican primary voters.
That is far from being a "serious" candidate.
That is far from being a "serious" candidate.
repoman
Contributor
He knows how to tap into the collective id.
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
The first reason is because the GOP didn't field a candidate with any answers or ideas (I'll get to the obvious in a second). It would have been difficult to have had a greater failure of the imagination when it came to fielding a group of Presidential candidates.
Jeb(!?) was the GOP anointed. I mean fuck, come on. Dubbya anyone? As if the memory of that thickheaded murderer and his cadre of mini-supervillains had faded from memory while the shit they got us into was still going on.
Ted Cruz? I'd never seen actual slime on an actual weasel until 16th Century Ted slithered out of the gutter and onto the national political scene.
Rubio? Too soon for him. This was his "I'm going to be the anointed in 2020 if I don't completely fuck it up" campaign.
Then there was Kucinich, the closest thing to a reasonable conservative as the GOP had, but they backed Jeb(?) instead. Kucinich could have given the Democrats a real run for their money. And with the hostility and general apathy toward Hillary, he may have even won.
Then there were the rest. Enough said about them.
As for Trump, he succeeded by yelling angry stuff. His main ideas--the ones that the rabble are responding to--could ever work or should even be tried, but his message was loud and something the rabble could attach themselves to. He started slinging mud--hell, shooting it out of a fire hose at every other Republican in sight and they just stood there getting covered in it like an old Three Stooges gag. Before they could react and clean themselves off it was too late.
He'll lose, then he'll go away, or form some idiotic third party for a little while, which he'll then abandon for easier and more profitable pastures.
But the scary thing is this: what if the U.S. really was in a massive recession or depression right now? It's frightening that so many could go authoritarian so quickly. We like to think, at least in westernized nations, that that kind of thing is behind us, that we know better. But a good number obviously do not. And if the economy had collapsed completely in 2007, rather than almost going under in 2008, and if Trump or a guy like him would have been in place as a candidate... holy fuck. As a whole, we are far more fragile than we like to believe.
Jeb(!?) was the GOP anointed. I mean fuck, come on. Dubbya anyone? As if the memory of that thickheaded murderer and his cadre of mini-supervillains had faded from memory while the shit they got us into was still going on.
Ted Cruz? I'd never seen actual slime on an actual weasel until 16th Century Ted slithered out of the gutter and onto the national political scene.
Rubio? Too soon for him. This was his "I'm going to be the anointed in 2020 if I don't completely fuck it up" campaign.
Then there was Kucinich, the closest thing to a reasonable conservative as the GOP had, but they backed Jeb(?) instead. Kucinich could have given the Democrats a real run for their money. And with the hostility and general apathy toward Hillary, he may have even won.
Then there were the rest. Enough said about them.
As for Trump, he succeeded by yelling angry stuff. His main ideas--the ones that the rabble are responding to--could ever work or should even be tried, but his message was loud and something the rabble could attach themselves to. He started slinging mud--hell, shooting it out of a fire hose at every other Republican in sight and they just stood there getting covered in it like an old Three Stooges gag. Before they could react and clean themselves off it was too late.
He'll lose, then he'll go away, or form some idiotic third party for a little while, which he'll then abandon for easier and more profitable pastures.
But the scary thing is this: what if the U.S. really was in a massive recession or depression right now? It's frightening that so many could go authoritarian so quickly. We like to think, at least in westernized nations, that that kind of thing is behind us, that we know better. But a good number obviously do not. And if the economy had collapsed completely in 2007, rather than almost going under in 2008, and if Trump or a guy like him would have been in place as a candidate... holy fuck. As a whole, we are far more fragile than we like to believe.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
I know he's not much but you could at least not confuse him with the outspoken democrat that was assed out of his district compliments of the GOP.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
The GOP machine takes advantage of propaganda and demagoguery but a lot of that has been on the fringe but still legitimized covertly by the party. Since it was legitimized, Trump jumped out in the front preemptively overtly supporting all those lies and xenophobia that gets the ordinary Republicans riled up. And because he made the racism and lies an overt part of the platform, the establishment had to disown him. It's sort of like bluffing. He pushed the envelope and then they called him on it. The GOP can't win the general election with an overtly racist, irrational platform.
The other factor that has really helped Trump is his knowledge of business. From that he learned that any news is good news. So he says stupid things so often that it took away other people's air time. He was the only person being covered. So he got tons, billions of dollars of free press.
The other factor that has really helped Trump is his knowledge of business. From that he learned that any news is good news. So he says stupid things so often that it took away other people's air time. He was the only person being covered. So he got tons, billions of dollars of free press.
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AthenaAwakened
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I don't think you meant Kucinich
Dennis John Kucinich (/kuːˈsɪnɪtʃ/; born October 8, 1946) is an American politician. A former U.S. Representative from Ohio, serving from 1997 to 2013, he was also a candidate for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States in the 2004 and 2008 Presidential elections.[1]
He was a member of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce.
From 1977 to 1979, Kucinich served as the 53rd Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, a tumultuous term in which he survived a recall election and was successful in a battle against selling the municipal electric utility before being defeated for reelection by George Voinovich.
Through his various governmental positions and campaigns, Kucinich attracted attention for consistently delivering "the strongest liberal" perspective.[2] This perspective has been shown by his actions, such as bringing Articles of Impeachment against President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, and being the only Democratic candidate in the 2008 election to have voted against invading Iraq.[3] (Eventual nominee Barack Obama also opposed the Iraq War when it started, but he was not yet in Congress at the time.)
PyramidHead
Contributor
delete
lpetrich
Contributor
Colonel Sanders, did you mean John Kasich instead of Dennis Kucinich?
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
Trump is the GOP entertainment arm of their brand coming home to roost.
The Republicans have for decades been sowing fear of foreigners, anger against immigrants (both legal and illegal), American exceptionalism, religious and racial privilege and de-humanizing the other side of the aisle in an unprecedented manner. They also have a very strong authoritarian and anti-intellectual streak. They are an ideological outrage machine that has been running 24/7. AM radio, Fox News, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity etc. Society has been moving on since their "Golden era" of the 50's, and conservatives know it. Racial equality, equality for homosexuals, loss of religious privilege, a woman's right to choose. All these are coming to pass, and the average rank and file, uneducated Republican often has no one left to look down upon to distract them from their shitty lives. In many ways, they are the ones being looked down upon as products of a bygone era; a shameful period of our past.
Also for decades, Republicans have become more and more extreme in order to combat these societal changes, and over and over again they've had very little success. This has all culminated in a party of extreme, right wing ideologues that are anti-intellectual. The party of the far right stupid. This is why we had such a large crop of presidential candidates from their party this last election. It's not (as they would like to believe) because they have such an excess of talent within the party. It's classic Dunning-Krueger. They are all so unqualified for the office that none of them realize how really unqualified for high executive office they really are. They all think they can run the country, yet all they have been able to do for the past 8 years is obstructionism on a grand scale. No big ideas, no sweeping legislation, no inspiration and no leadership. Only fear and anger.
As the more extreme get elected into office, they cooperate less, both with each other and their opponents across the isle. Nothing gets done. They can't reverse society's changes as they promised to do when they were trying to get elected. So the GOP electorate has become more and more disillusioned and disappointed in their candidates. In reaction they push even further to the right, which is even further from goals and priorities of the rest of the country, so they continue to get nothing done.
Instead of blaming themselves and their outdated ideas, (this isn't exclusively Republican of course, but it is more prevalent when authoritarianism and religion is present) they blame everyone else they don't like and have been trained to hate. They watch their leaders being constrained by what's now acceptable and not in society, and call this "political correctness". They hate it. They are angry that their attitudes and beliefs are no longer acceptable in public. Their voices are being silenced, their leaders are impotent even though they promise the moon, and their once privileged position is long gone.
Along comes someone who does not allow himself to be constrained by what is acceptable in society. Bigoted and proud. Reflexively stupid, and he says what the GOP electorate is thinking. He's successful regardless of these attitudes. They flock to him like flies on shit. The more he says that is socially unacceptable, the more they like him. This is why people have time and again said "this time Trump's gone too far and this will surely put and end to his campaign." It will not. Each and every time he goes too far he gains strength. If he were to start capitulating, he would seem weak, hypocritical and cowed. He must keep pushing the envelope or he will lose his supporters. This is why his presidency would be so dangerous. Trump is extremely narcissistic, and to keep himself in the limelight and keep people loving him he will not change just because he's president. He will continue to up the ante. He's not brilliant, he's not trolling the GOP, and he's simply no genius. He's lucky. That's it.
Fortunately for us, he's so narcissistic and stupid he doesn't realize he's king of a small fraction of idiotic, bigoted ideologues. In the general election, he'd normally be trounced soundly. My fear is a major terror attack taking place here, which could cause an ignorant knee-jerk reaction by the electorate. My other fear is Clinton. She's simply unlikable by the general population. Although she's more likable than Trump, it's not by a incredibly large margin. I want as large a margin as possible to keep Trump away form the nuclear weapons.
The Republicans have for decades been sowing fear of foreigners, anger against immigrants (both legal and illegal), American exceptionalism, religious and racial privilege and de-humanizing the other side of the aisle in an unprecedented manner. They also have a very strong authoritarian and anti-intellectual streak. They are an ideological outrage machine that has been running 24/7. AM radio, Fox News, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity etc. Society has been moving on since their "Golden era" of the 50's, and conservatives know it. Racial equality, equality for homosexuals, loss of religious privilege, a woman's right to choose. All these are coming to pass, and the average rank and file, uneducated Republican often has no one left to look down upon to distract them from their shitty lives. In many ways, they are the ones being looked down upon as products of a bygone era; a shameful period of our past.
Also for decades, Republicans have become more and more extreme in order to combat these societal changes, and over and over again they've had very little success. This has all culminated in a party of extreme, right wing ideologues that are anti-intellectual. The party of the far right stupid. This is why we had such a large crop of presidential candidates from their party this last election. It's not (as they would like to believe) because they have such an excess of talent within the party. It's classic Dunning-Krueger. They are all so unqualified for the office that none of them realize how really unqualified for high executive office they really are. They all think they can run the country, yet all they have been able to do for the past 8 years is obstructionism on a grand scale. No big ideas, no sweeping legislation, no inspiration and no leadership. Only fear and anger.
As the more extreme get elected into office, they cooperate less, both with each other and their opponents across the isle. Nothing gets done. They can't reverse society's changes as they promised to do when they were trying to get elected. So the GOP electorate has become more and more disillusioned and disappointed in their candidates. In reaction they push even further to the right, which is even further from goals and priorities of the rest of the country, so they continue to get nothing done.
Instead of blaming themselves and their outdated ideas, (this isn't exclusively Republican of course, but it is more prevalent when authoritarianism and religion is present) they blame everyone else they don't like and have been trained to hate. They watch their leaders being constrained by what's now acceptable and not in society, and call this "political correctness". They hate it. They are angry that their attitudes and beliefs are no longer acceptable in public. Their voices are being silenced, their leaders are impotent even though they promise the moon, and their once privileged position is long gone.
Along comes someone who does not allow himself to be constrained by what is acceptable in society. Bigoted and proud. Reflexively stupid, and he says what the GOP electorate is thinking. He's successful regardless of these attitudes. They flock to him like flies on shit. The more he says that is socially unacceptable, the more they like him. This is why people have time and again said "this time Trump's gone too far and this will surely put and end to his campaign." It will not. Each and every time he goes too far he gains strength. If he were to start capitulating, he would seem weak, hypocritical and cowed. He must keep pushing the envelope or he will lose his supporters. This is why his presidency would be so dangerous. Trump is extremely narcissistic, and to keep himself in the limelight and keep people loving him he will not change just because he's president. He will continue to up the ante. He's not brilliant, he's not trolling the GOP, and he's simply no genius. He's lucky. That's it.
Fortunately for us, he's so narcissistic and stupid he doesn't realize he's king of a small fraction of idiotic, bigoted ideologues. In the general election, he'd normally be trounced soundly. My fear is a major terror attack taking place here, which could cause an ignorant knee-jerk reaction by the electorate. My other fear is Clinton. She's simply unlikable by the general population. Although she's more likable than Trump, it's not by a incredibly large margin. I want as large a margin as possible to keep Trump away form the nuclear weapons.
Jimmy Higgins
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I think this was an inevitability. No one saw it coming, but it seems like it is just fate. The Republicans have no new blood, so they tried to run old blood while there was an asshat running around. What the GOP didn't see coming was that they galvanized the radicals starting in '09 that they couldn't be swayed by anything once they found their man.
A couple Trump supporters called conservative political intellectual whore Michael Medved and Medved kept trying to have the callers explain what made Trump presidential. They could only make the typical pro-Trump vague statements not based on much of anything. So even his supporters can't make a case for Trump, other than Trump! and he is what America needs.
The bullies are tired of not being allowed to bully anymore. And they are taking a stand.
A couple Trump supporters called conservative political intellectual whore Michael Medved and Medved kept trying to have the callers explain what made Trump presidential. They could only make the typical pro-Trump vague statements not based on much of anything. So even his supporters can't make a case for Trump, other than Trump! and he is what America needs.
The bullies are tired of not being allowed to bully anymore. And they are taking a stand.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
Although you won't see me there, try shopping at WalMart on Friday night -- say, about 10:30. You'll see Trump Nation, along with their sleepy-eyed, cranky-as-fuck young-uns, plus eighty year-old Herbert and Ella lugging their 2-gallon dill pickle jar around in their cart. Their pickup will have a Confederate flag and some dumbass decal ("If it has wheels or tits, it's gonna cause problems.")
Speakpigeon
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It seems to have come from nowhere and it was definitely a surprise. However, it's less surprising when you look at the way society is evolving, particularly the possibility for madmen and women to set up shop on the Internet and on television and radio. The standard of political performance is going down everywhere and, like in many things, the U.S. is leading the way. I'd be surprised if he even came close to winning eventually but it's not entirely excluded I guess.
EB
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
Underseer
Contributor
He is winning the primaries. How is that not the very definition of a serious candidate?
Colonel Sanders
Veteran Member
He's a serious candidate in that he's probably going to be the nominee, but he's still only getting around 35-40% of the votes. He's winning by plurality. Usually by now, a frontrunner has gained so much momentum that they're winning majorities.
Underseer
Contributor
Trump should not surprise anyone. All he is doing is saying out loud what all the other Republican politicians merely imply. Decades of Republican rhetoric has trained Republican voters to respond positively to racist messages.
On top of that, the Republican establishment has pissed off the base for a large number of reasons, so even a tiny bit of disingenuous anti-establishment rhetoric will get a large positive response.
The Republican base is angry, but they still haven't figured out the extent to which they have been lied to. If they ever figure out that trickle on economics hurts everyone but the elite, there is going to be hell to pay.
On top of that, the Republican establishment has pissed off the base for a large number of reasons, so even a tiny bit of disingenuous anti-establishment rhetoric will get a large positive response.
The Republican base is angry, but they still haven't figured out the extent to which they have been lied to. If they ever figure out that trickle on economics hurts everyone but the elite, there is going to be hell to pay.
Underseer
Contributor
That's weak. There is not a single Republican candidate getting more votes than him.
What possible objection could any Republican have to him? He is authoritarian, hates dissent, encourages violence, is rich, incompetent, and incredibly racist. Honestly, I have a hard time understanding why his poll numbers aren't even higher.
coloradoatheist
Veteran Member
It's the anti-business positions that he shares with Sanders that would have the pro-business leaders of the Republican party upset.
It really isn't hard to understand if you actually talk to people who live in the middle of the country.
Couple of streams
1. Government is broken on the left and right and is unresponsive to the needs of huge swaths of Americans. This also includes the all forms of mainstream media. These people see themselves as left behind, Trump speaks to that anger.
2. Some people are REALLY sick of the political correctness around many issues. They see Trump as the ultimate troll of the political establishment and press.
3. Some people are supporting Trump because he seems like a giant bomb to blow apart the political establishment in the hope that what comes out of it will be more libertarian vs authoritarian instead of this phony left vs right.
4. Some people just want to put breaks on "progress for the sake of progress" and would like to get back to more traditional values.
Trumps popularity has nothing to do with ideas or policy, it is complete political revenge on the establishment. The funny thing is that once Sanders goes away, you will see some Sanders voters voting for Trump....
I am sure people here completely HATE Milo Yiannopoulus but
he actually explains why people support Trump in this video:
Honestly, the left is as equally guilty as the right in creating Trump.
Couple of streams
1. Government is broken on the left and right and is unresponsive to the needs of huge swaths of Americans. This also includes the all forms of mainstream media. These people see themselves as left behind, Trump speaks to that anger.
2. Some people are REALLY sick of the political correctness around many issues. They see Trump as the ultimate troll of the political establishment and press.
3. Some people are supporting Trump because he seems like a giant bomb to blow apart the political establishment in the hope that what comes out of it will be more libertarian vs authoritarian instead of this phony left vs right.
4. Some people just want to put breaks on "progress for the sake of progress" and would like to get back to more traditional values.
Trumps popularity has nothing to do with ideas or policy, it is complete political revenge on the establishment. The funny thing is that once Sanders goes away, you will see some Sanders voters voting for Trump....
I am sure people here completely HATE Milo Yiannopoulus but
he actually explains why people support Trump in this video:
Honestly, the left is as equally guilty as the right in creating Trump.