How do You Deal with Christmas?

[bilby]

We have Halloween, which seems to have managed to save us from Xmas sprawl into September. Not certain how, but it has. Maybe it really is Satan's holiday.

YOU Have Halloween. It remains very much an American thing though, despite attempts by retailers to export it to the rest of the English speaking world.

That's what I said. WE. And though Halloween itself has sprawled into September and even August... it is holding back Xmas like a solid dam. Not even Thanksgiving could hold off Xmas... and T-Day was sort of invented to promote Xmas shopping!

So I recommend adopting this. There is no music, so it is still safe to venture to stores.

Well they're basically the same thing anyway, as any computer scientist can tell you.

OCT 31 = DEC 25

 

[senor boogie woogie]

Probably many of you know this but Christmas came about as the celebration of the birth of Christ. In the Roman Empire, there was a holiday called Saturnalia, which worshipped a diety called Mithras which had many of the same storyline as Christ, but it was a holiday where people had a big feast, drank and gave away presents. The Christians wanted followers, and instead of telling potential converts that they could not celebrate this fun holiday, just basically took it over.

Most cultures have a after harvest, mid winter major holiday. It came from ancient people who after the crops came in, and they made their money, are sitting in their houses with nothing to do, and its cold outside, invite some friends and family over with a jug of wine to shoot the shit, drink and have a good time. Partying has been around for a long time.

In the Book of Jeremiah, there is a passage about pagans cutting down a tree, decorating it in their homes for their religion, and the Bible basically called it an abomination. I do know that in the 1600's in Colonial America that the Puritans and other groups outlawed Christmas because people basically did then what they do now, buy presents, and then have a party, eat too much and drink wine until they hit the floor. Cant have that. These were the idiots who believed witches existed and no one stood up and went "Uh, there is no such thing as witches." Even if someone did, they would be branded as a witch. But it was 1692, and guess what, after my hard labors just living life back then, I am going to get a jug, invite some friends (especially those who can play instruments), have a nice fire and party like its 1699.

 

[bilby]

Probably many of you know this but Christmas came about as the celebration of the birth of Christ. In the Roman Empire, there was a holiday called Saturnalia, which worshipped a diety called Mithras which had many of the same storyline as Christ, but it was a holiday where people had a big feast, drank and gave away presents. The Christians wanted followers, and instead of telling potential converts that they could not celebrate this fun holiday, just basically took it over.

Most cultures have a after harvest, mid winter major holiday. It came from ancient people who after the crops came in, and they made their money, are sitting in their houses with nothing to do, and its cold outside, invite some friends and family over with a jug of wine to shoot the shit, drink and have a good time. Partying has been around for a long time.

In the Book of Jeremiah, there is a passage about pagans cutting down a tree, decorating it in their homes for their religion, and the Bible basically called it an abomination. I do know that in the 1600's in Colonial America that the Puritans and other groups outlawed Christmas because people basically did then what they do now, buy presents, and then have a party, eat too much and drink wine until they hit the floor. Cant have that. These were the idiots who believed witches existed and no one stood up and went "Uh, there is no such thing as witches." Even if someone did, they would be branded as a witch. But it was 1692, and guess what, after my hard labors just living life back then, I am going to get a jug, invite some friends (especially those who can play instruments), have a nice fire and party like its 1699.

Probably you already know this, but the stories you are telling are at best 'based on a true story', and represent a very parochial and distorted view of reality.

All of what you say is truthy. Some of it is not utter nonsense. But I doubt that you know what parts are drivel, nor care much for whether your claims are accurate.

Your beliefs are noted. They're also worthless and internally contradictory.

 

[senor boogie woogie]

Instead of being an insulting, pretentious clown, tell me how I am wrong.

 

[bilby]

Instead of being an insulting, pretentious clown, tell me how I am wrong.

Life is too short.

Particularly as you don't take your own advice.

You are fractally wrong. It would require half a lifetime of replacing your beliefs in dumb American propaganda with the education you have obviously missed. I sure as shit have better things to do.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

If your nativity does not have dinosaurs, you are doing it wrong.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Instead of being an insulting, pretentious clown, tell me how I am wrong.

"Christmas" is just the christian celebration of the Winter Solstice. The Winter Solstice is the reason for all the celebrations that occur at this time of the year in these latitudes. People celebrated the return of the sun, literally, as it stopped moving south across the horizon since the Summer Solstice, stopped it's movement for a few days, then began to "return." That's it. Our ancestors associated this cycle with their survival and they were absolutely correct about what it meant.

I watch this cycle every year as I am perched on a hilltop and can watch the sun make its journey south on the horizon. I don't think most people appreciate this fact or have ever watched the sun make its journey. We're pretty detached from the rest of nature generally speaking but our ancestors realized this connectedness because they didn't have electric stoves and gas furnaces. Their survival was at stake. Sun worship was quite understandable.

Raised Catholic and having attended these midnight services on the Winter Solstice/Christmas Eve, I never realized why exactly these practices occurred. I was just as dumb as everyone else and thought it was about your standard dying rising demigod who brings "light" back into the world. That's hokum horseshit. It's about the sun itself and how dependent we are on the natural cycles. If you've never attended one of these midnight services you won't bee able to appreciate how they came to be and how they match sun worship.

 

[Tharmas]

My kids are both grown now. When they were little we did a normal Christmas - tree, presents, stockings, etc., but no religion.
When my daughter was in her twenties she told me she had never believed in Santa. When I turned to her older brother, who was something of a stoner, he said "you mean Santa's not real?"
Now I've got grandchildren and this Christmas I'll have to ask my daughter how she handles it with them.

 

[rousseau]

The religious aspect surrounding Christmas isn't much of a thing here. When I was growing up we'd attend mass on Christmas Eve, but it was primarily for the display/music etc. My parents told us Santa was real when we were little, but I don't recall there being much magic to it. It was essentially just them lying to us, and my brother and I believing them because we were young.

Our boys are still small enough that Santa isn't relevant yet, but my wife and I have discussed it briefly and will likely ignore the whole thing. We'll explain the tradition, but let them know it's just make believe. We're not that opinionated about it, we really just don't see the point.

Crossing the border into Michigan Christmas / Santa seems to be a different story.

 

[Politesse]

Crossing the border into Michigan Christmas / Santa seems to be a different story.

Particularly in Frankenmuth.

 

[rousseau]

Crossing the border into Michigan Christmas / Santa seems to be a different story.

Particularly in Frankenmuth.

We've been! IIRC, this was back in our pre-engagement days, so winter of 2015. We stayed in a nice little B&B in Bay City, and had to drive through a snowstorm on unfamiliar roads in a rental vehicle to get there.

Definitely a different .. culture there.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

This year, put a little Krampus in your Soltice celebration.

 

[TomC]

I believe in Santa Claus. Took me years, but I do.

When I was a tot I believed in the existence of a magical guy in the red suit. But I was still in single digits when I started doing some critical thinking. No Santa.

It took decades for me to come around. But eventually I did. Nothing to do with his physical existence. But as the personification of a spirit, I believe. Santa Claus is the symbol of a spirit of generosity and comradery and warmth. He comes at the time of year when the outside world is hostile, cold and dark. (At least here in decent places )

That Santa I believe in.

I had a similar trajectory concerning Jesus.

Tom

 

[Tharmas]

My kids are both grown now. When they were little we did a normal Christmas - tree, presents, stockings, etc., but no religion.
When my daughter was in her twenties she told me she had never believed in Santa. When I turned to her older brother, who was something of a stoner, he said "you mean Santa's not real?"
Now I've got grandchildren and this Christmas I'll have to ask my daughter how she handles it with them.

I believe in Santa Claus. Took me years, but I do.

When I was a tot I believed in the existence of a magical guy in the red suit. But I was still in single digits when I started doing some critical thinking. No Santa.

It took decades for me to come around. But eventually I did. Nothing to do with his physical existence. But as the personification of a spirit, I believe. Santa Claus is the symbol of a spirit of generosity and comradery and warmth. He comes at the time of year when the outside world is hostile, cold and dark. (At least here in decent places )

That Santa I believe in.

I had a similar trajectory concerning Jesus.

Tom

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have Halloween, which seems to have managed to save us from Xmas sprawl into September. Not certain how, but it has. Maybe it really is Satan's holiday.

YOU Have Halloween. It remains very much an American thing though, despite attempts by retailers to export it to the rest of the English speaking world.

That's what I said. WE. And though Halloween itself has sprawled into September and even August... it is holding back Xmas like a solid dam. Not even Thanksgiving could hold off Xmas... and T-Day was sort of invented to promote Xmas shopping!

So I recommend adopting this. There is no music, so it is still safe to venture to stores.

Well darn it! Halloween levee broke and Xmas spilled into October.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

A full month of bad Xmas music. This is why Xmas makes me cranky.

 

[senor boogie woogie]

Back in the old days before the "virus", Christmas was basically a party day. My wife is Chinese and does not celebrate Christmas nor does she want to do so. I tried when we were first married to get her into the holiday. My first year, I met a nice Canadian man and went to his house with my wife, and it was his wife, their four year old boy and another Chinese couple. My wife looked miserable. She didnt know anyone and was not the center of attention I guess. We are not religious, we are just celebrating the ancient holiday of Saturnalia which became Christmas which consists of friendship, good food...and drinking!