How do you find out what a sex offender actually did?

[ronburgundy]

Revealing the age of minor victim does nothing to harm them. It is not information that is at all personal to them in particular (unlike their name, address, or other info that can be used to determine who they are).

Depends on the size of the town.

Any town so tiny that an actual person can be inferred from nothing but an age is going to a town where everyone already personally knows all parties involved and everything there is to know about the case, which is true of most moral and legal infractions through most of human history.
IOW, the age info can do no harm, only good.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the risk young looking people not finding sex partners will never warrant concern, but it shows the humanitarian in you.

The "I thought she was eighteen," defense is simply bullshit. The idea there is a cadre of under aged nymphets wandering the night, seeking older sex partners, is just not realistic.

In my neighborhood, an article appears in the local paper about once a week or so, announcing the arrest of a man, for some sort of sex offense involving a minor. It's never about a man who met a young woman in a bar.

"I thought she was 18" is bullshit. "Her driver's license said she's 18" isn't bullshit in my book.

And there are underage women who hunt for sex partners. It's just that because the sex is consensual it rarely comes to the attention of the police.

 

[Bronzeage]

I think the risk young looking people not finding sex partners will never warrant concern, but it shows the humanitarian in you.

The "I thought she was eighteen," defense is simply bullshit. The idea there is a cadre of under aged nymphets wandering the night, seeking older sex partners, is just not realistic.

In my neighborhood, an article appears in the local paper about once a week or so, announcing the arrest of a man, for some sort of sex offense involving a minor. It's never about a man who met a young woman in a bar.

"I thought she was 18" is bullshit. "Her driver's license said she's 18" isn't bullshit in my book.

And there are underage women who hunt for sex partners. It's just that because the sex is consensual it rarely comes to the attention of the police.

The "I didn't know she was a prostitute," line doesn't work any better.

Girls who send friend requests on facebook don't count. They aren't underage and they aren't girls, either.

 

[Derec]

Being in favor of sex with minor females makes for strange bedfellows.

It's not about "being in favor of sex with minor females". It's about being in favor of reasonable laws and against unreasonable and draconian ones. A law where intent doesn't matter and where even being a victim of deception doesn't matter is not a reasonable law.

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The "I didn't know she was a prostitute," line doesn't work any better.

And there we go again, see. Laws against sex-work are even more ridiculous than the way most US statutory rape laws are constructed.
Consensual sex work should obviously be legal.

 

[Derec]

The "I thought she was eighteen," defense is simply bullshit.

It may be, it may not be. But it should be allowed as a defense. There is a great deal of look variability, with some 18 year-olds looking 15 and some 15 year olds looking 20 especially when they gussy up. Note that conext is also important. Did he meet her (or she him) at a place where high-schoolers hang out? Or at a bar or a college party?

The idea there is a cadre of under aged nymphets wandering the night, seeking older sex partners, is just not realistic.

Yes, high schoolers never try to look and behave older. There are no high schoolers trying to get into bars and clubs or attend college parties. And minors desiring to engage in and initiate sex is also a biological impossibility. The very idea of kids getting fake ids with an older age is unheard of. Oh wait.

In my neighborhood, an article appears in the local paper about once a week or so, announcing the arrest of a man, for some sort of sex offense involving a minor. It's never about a man who met a young woman in a bar.

Just because a defense should be allowed does not mean it applies in every case, or even most cases. It is enough that it applies in some cases where conviction would be an injustice rather than justice. Criminal law should strive toward the latter and avoid former.

 

[Toni]

I think the risk young looking people not finding sex partners will never warrant concern, but it shows the humanitarian in you.

The "I thought she was eighteen," defense is simply bullshit. The idea there is a cadre of under aged nymphets wandering the night, seeking older sex partners, is just not realistic.

In my neighborhood, an article appears in the local paper about once a week or so, announcing the arrest of a man, for some sort of sex offense involving a minor. It's never about a man who met a young woman in a bar.

"I thought she was 18" is bullshit. "Her driver's license said she's 18" isn't bullshit in my book.

And there are underage women who hunt for sex partners. It's just that because the sex is consensual it rarely comes to the attention of the police.

That 'underage woman' is a girl. A minor without adult legal rights or responsibilities.

Yes, it can be difficult to tell someone's age by looking at them. I remember having that conversation with my son when my daughter was a teenager. Here's what HE said helps: talking to them. It's hard to know how old a female person is by their height, breast size, make up or clothing. A lot of young girls try to look older; a lot of women over the age of 25 try to look younger. The best way to tell is by talking to them. Or rather, listening to them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"I thought she was 18" is bullshit. "Her driver's license said she's 18" isn't bullshit in my book.

And there are underage women who hunt for sex partners. It's just that because the sex is consensual it rarely comes to the attention of the police.

That 'underage woman' is a girl. A minor without adult legal rights or responsibilities.

Yes, it can be difficult to tell someone's age by looking at them. I remember having that conversation with my son when my daughter was a teenager. Here's what HE said helps: talking to them. It's hard to know how old a female person is by their height, breast size, make up or clothing. A lot of young girls try to look older; a lot of women over the age of 25 try to look younger. The best way to tell is by talking to them. Or rather, listening to them.

Which has nothing to do with what I said about her ID saying she's 18.

Furthermore, talking is by no means foolproof--I was routinely mistaken for much older at that age. (Best example: "How many grandkids do you have?" I was 17.)

 

[Bronzeage]

That 'underage woman' is a girl. A minor without adult legal rights or responsibilities.

Yes, it can be difficult to tell someone's age by looking at them. I remember having that conversation with my son when my daughter was a teenager. Here's what HE said helps: talking to them. It's hard to know how old a female person is by their height, breast size, make up or clothing. A lot of young girls try to look older; a lot of women over the age of 25 try to look younger. The best way to tell is by talking to them. Or rather, listening to them.

Which has nothing to do with what I said about her ID saying she's 18.

Furthermore, talking is by no means foolproof--I was routinely mistaken for much older at that age. (Best example: "How many grandkids do you have?" I was 17.)

You looked like a grandfather at 17?

The law on these matters is pretty clear and there have been many opportunities to clarify it further. In any interaction between an adult and a minor which involves a crime, responsibility falls on the adult. In the case of statutory rape and it's many variations, it is the adult's responsibility to be informed. Ignorance of the law, or the situation is no excuse.

 

[Toni]

That 'underage woman' is a girl. A minor without adult legal rights or responsibilities.

Yes, it can be difficult to tell someone's age by looking at them. I remember having that conversation with my son when my daughter was a teenager. Here's what HE said helps: talking to them. It's hard to know how old a female person is by their height, breast size, make up or clothing. A lot of young girls try to look older; a lot of women over the age of 25 try to look younger. The best way to tell is by talking to them. Or rather, listening to them.

Which has nothing to do with what I said about her ID saying she's 18.

Furthermore, talking is by no means foolproof--I was routinely mistaken for much older at that age. (Best example: "How many grandkids do you have?" I was 17.)

Really? So a horny guy can ask for ID to prove she's 18 (as if that happens) but not actually converse with her? Really.

 

[Bronzeage]

Which has nothing to do with what I said about her ID saying she's 18.

Furthermore, talking is by no means foolproof--I was routinely mistaken for much older at that age. (Best example: "How many grandkids do you have?" I was 17.)

Really? So a horny guy can ask for ID to prove she's 18 (as if that happens) but not actually converse with her? Really.

Nobody talks anymore, but more than one chat log or text history has shot the hell out of the "She said she was 18," defense.

This line of discussion is really silly. The percentage of men who could plausibly claim they didn't know a girl was underage is minuscule. This is just a variation of false rape charge out rage. The real problem is the threat a woman's sexuality poses, and how she can lure a man into danger by being irresistible.

But if she's irresistible, it's not his fault, right?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Which has nothing to do with what I said about her ID saying she's 18.

Furthermore, talking is by no means foolproof--I was routinely mistaken for much older at that age. (Best example: "How many grandkids do you have?" I was 17.)

You looked like a grandfather at 17?

The law on these matters is pretty clear and there have been many opportunities to clarify it further. In any interaction between an adult and a minor which involves a crime, responsibility falls on the adult. In the case of statutory rape and it's many variations, it is the adult's responsibility to be informed. Ignorance of the law, or the situation is no excuse.

The issue was talking, not looking. The grandkids comment was on-line.

In person it was really strange--being guessed to be in my early 30's wasn't exactly uncommon--but others thought I looked much younger than my actual age.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Really? So a horny guy can ask for ID to prove she's 18 (as if that happens) but not actually converse with her? Really.

Nobody talks anymore, but more than one chat log or text history has shot the hell out of the "She said she was 18," defense.

This line of discussion is really silly. The percentage of men who could plausibly claim they didn't know a girl was underage is minuscule. This is just a variation of false rape charge out rage. The real problem is the threat a woman's sexuality poses, and how she can lure a man into danger by being irresistible.

But if she's irresistible, it's not his fault, right?

While I agree most guys don't check that doesn't mean that making it a strict liability offense is the right way to go. Rather, it should be based on the guy (or gal) making a reasonable effort to confirm that the person is of legal age. I don't like strict liability offenses, period.

 

[Bronzeage]

Nobody talks anymore, but more than one chat log or text history has shot the hell out of the "She said she was 18," defense.

This line of discussion is really silly. The percentage of men who could plausibly claim they didn't know a girl was underage is minuscule. This is just a variation of false rape charge out rage. The real problem is the threat a woman's sexuality poses, and how she can lure a man into danger by being irresistible.

But if she's irresistible, it's not his fault, right?

While I agree most guys don't check that doesn't mean that making it a strict liability offense is the right way to go. Rather, it should be based on the guy (or gal) making a reasonable effort to confirm that the person is of legal age. I don't like strict liability offenses, period.

Suppose a guy comes along with a car that has always been your dream car. It has a broken ignition switch and has to be started with a screw driver. He doesn't have the title, but tells you it was lost when he moved. It's a really good deal and you may never get another chance to own your dream car, especially at this price. Of course, he wants cash. Do you buy the car?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While I agree most guys don't check that doesn't mean that making it a strict liability offense is the right way to go. Rather, it should be based on the guy (or gal) making a reasonable effort to confirm that the person is of legal age. I don't like strict liability offenses, period.

Suppose a guy comes along with a car that has always been your dream car. It has a broken ignition switch and has to be started with a screw driver. He doesn't have the title, but tells you it was lost when he moved. It's a really good deal and you may never get another chance to own your dream car, especially at this price. Of course, he wants cash. Do you buy the car?

You keep presenting it as if it's clear whether she's of age or not. There's no magical switch that gets flipped from 17.364 to 18!