How do you stay true to yourself by staying silent?

[Playball40]

This past weekend I needed to attend an "open house" of sorts for the county school district (it was free immunizations, physicals and supplies among other things). I attended as PTA President for my kids' school with the Principal and Guidance Counselor. It was a five-hour event and of course we had time to chit chat about many things like: the new common core standards, health care in the US and government regulations. I could tell from the tone that the Principal does not agree with single-payor UHC (she commented on how bad it is for her cousin in Norway). We all agreed something needed to change. When discussing regulations, I could see it from their perspective. The regulations/requirements/bureacracy for the public school system is absurd and genuinely takes too much from the purpose: educating children. She agreed wall street needed more regulations however, so we agreed that many regulation are mis-guided. Some need to be lifted, some added.

When health care came up again she said she just doesn't believe the government should be involved in health care for the poor and that it should be up to private charity (she pointed out how her church sponsored an immigrant family 10 years ago). I explained that it did not benefit enough people and something was needed for those "left out" or didn't belong to a church.

Then it started. The Guidance Counselor said she had two master's degrees and that the problems in this country could be fixed if we simply returned to the Chrisitan principles upon which this country was founded and that Christianity should be the law of the land.....blah blah blah. The Principal agreed. I just sat there dumbfounded knowing that if I even casually mentioned I was an atheist I would be ousted from the PTA and my children would suffer for it. I knew I couldn't say a word. But felt sick to my stomach at the same time.

I truly like both of these people and believe in they're heart is absolutely in the right place. They want the same goals but disagree with the methods of acheiving them. But it's scary to me that they believe the whole myth of the US being a Christian country somehow hijacked by the heathens. And it felt even worse that I didn't feel I could say a word to the contrary. It had to feel like being a German in 1939 that despised Nazism and Hitler but would lose their lives and livelihoods by speaking out. I know we are not THERE, but is it possible we could get there?

 

[Under the Rose]

One stays true to themselves by staying silent at times, by choosing where and when is the appropriate time to speak up or debate. If taking a stand is going to result in consequences to one's ability to provide a livelihood for themselves and their family, then perhaps that is not the best course to take. Even in discussion, you would have been outnumbered and unlikely even to receive fair listening from your audience.

I work in a corporate retail grocery venue in which I am quite convinced that most of the processed product does nothing to further health for individuals. I console myself through sharing with people who ask, which foods I select myself because I feel they are healthier options (and why I think so) and then accept that each person has the right to make their own selections. It is a very small contribution, but a positive one, nonetheless. I am half-German by birth and proud of the work ethic of my heritage but because of history, it is not something I tend to speak of much so your comparison does indeed make sense to me.

We may very much want to help others yet survival is the prime motivation of all species that I have observed.

 

[Brian63]

Just as a generalization, the way to get other people to rethink their entrenched positions is to say something that they agree with, but which also conflicts with those already-held viewpoints. Then they will realize they have a dilemma and a contradiction in their views, and they cannot simultaneously hold to all the positions they thought they could, consistently. They will also see merit in your viewpoint, and so will feel some compulsion to agree with you. The whole experience will be difficult for them, but our minds and bodies are built to resist change, and so that is what we have to go through.

Your comment about how there needed to be a sort of "charity" for people who did not belong to a church was a great one. It is a bit harder to disagree with a statement like that, and so if they do end up agreeing with you on it, that will impact the other views of theirs also.

So when they came back with the comments about our country returning to its Christian heritage and such, the trick again is to find some remark that disputes that comment, but is also one that they can and feel compelled to agree with. It may be difficult to come up with such comments though, especially on-the-spot as you were. The trick to get people to think more critically about their religious/political views though is to get them to actually think about them in a new way, from a new perspective, and so they want to invest more of their own time into giving it more thought. It will not be something that gets forced on them. Rather, they will want to give it more of their own effort. That is tough to do though.

Brian

 

[braces_for_impact]

It's a shame when you have to live with that kind of fear. Others are free to express their viewpoints while others must stay silent. I get angry just reading your OP and empathizing with your situation. It shows your compassion and patience that you genuinely like these people. Someone who tells me they know how to fix the country simply because they have two masters degrees gets nowhere with me, except possibly chalked up as someone that values their own opinion a little too highly.

Returning to Christian principles and making Christianity the law of the land is remarkably short sighted and to my mind, bigoted. I would have a hard time being as conciliatory as yourself, but then my little one is just starting VPK, and in your situation I may very well bite my tongue for the sake of my children.

Sometimes, for one reason or another we have to remain silent. This isn't betraying your principles. You remain true to yourself by acting in accordance with your beliefs. While you most likely felt marginalized, (I would have) you had the superior moral ground in my opinion. A guidance counselor and a principal should not be putting a PTA member into the position they did by voicing those opinions during that time. Those opinions are more appropriate afterwards over coffee. It was obvious that they had the power in that situation and were assuming their privilege as good true Christianstm, even if they didn't realize it. You could have lashed out. You didn't.

Given all that, what I find sometimes helpful is the Socratic method. It's very much like Brian mentioned. Ask them questions. Lead them to their own contradictions. It will make them think. Perhaps next time, they'll even think before they speak. You can ask all kinds of questions without revealing your own hand.

 

[rousseau]

Staying true to yourself is only important when it doesn't conflict with your ability to survive and thrive happily. The world doesn't (or shouldn't) work on black and whites that pronounce morals like "we should always stand up for what we believe in under every circumstance". Some people might follow moral codes like that, but usually to their detriment. The ironic thing about people who cut off their own noses is that usually their moral stance accomplishes little to nothing. Sure they might have their pride, but they might not have their livelihood, which to me is all that really matters.

In university I studied the biological sciences and I can remember years ago seeing a funny comic during that time that pretty much summed it up. You had a bunch of different animals with a thought bubble that said, "survive and reproduce", and then you had a person with a thought bubble that said "what is life all about!?". Ultimately, the thoughts of the animals are what it's really all about, but people get so clouded with so many weird ideas that we forget what our real purpose is.

When I hear of issues like this I'm constantly reminded of a group of people I knew back in university. They'd call themselves anarchists and socialists, and rant against capitalism, they'd live their lives in a way that appeared to them to be upholding important foundational morals, but their entire frame of reference was removed from other more grounded perspectives that they couldn't see, and their entire lives were being affected because of it. I strive to not be like that and instead 'play the game' the right way, get myself life security, and live happily ever after.

 

[Underseer]

This past weekend I needed to attend an "open house" of sorts for the county school district (it was free immunizations, physicals and supplies among other things). I attended as PTA President for my kids' school with the Principal and Guidance Counselor. It was a five-hour event and of course we had time to chit chat about many things like: the new common core standards, health care in the US and government regulations. I could tell from the tone that the Principal does not agree with single-payor UHC (she commented on how bad it is for her cousin in Norway). We all agreed something needed to change. When discussing regulations, I could see it from their perspective. The regulations/requirements/bureacracy for the public school system is absurd and genuinely takes too much from the purpose: educating children. She agreed wall street needed more regulations however, so we agreed that many regulation are mis-guided. Some need to be lifted, some added.

When health care came up again she said she just doesn't believe the government should be involved in health care for the poor and that it should be up to private charity (she pointed out how her church sponsored an immigrant family 10 years ago). I explained that it did not benefit enough people and something was needed for those "left out" or didn't belong to a church.

Then it started. The Guidance Counselor said she had two master's degrees and that the problems in this country could be fixed if we simply returned to the Chrisitan principles upon which this country was founded and that Christianity should be the law of the land.....blah blah blah. The Principal agreed. I just sat there dumbfounded knowing that if I even casually mentioned I was an atheist I would be ousted from the PTA and my children would suffer for it. I knew I couldn't say a word. But felt sick to my stomach at the same time.

I truly like both of these people and believe in they're heart is absolutely in the right place. They want the same goals but disagree with the methods of acheiving them. But it's scary to me that they believe the whole myth of the US being a Christian country somehow hijacked by the heathens. And it felt even worse that I didn't feel I could say a word to the contrary. It had to feel like being a German in 1939 that despised Nazism and Hitler but would lose their lives and livelihoods by speaking out. I know we are not THERE, but is it possible we could get there?

Up until recent generations, Baptists were among the great defenders of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. This is because they understood that if there ever was an official state religion, it wouldn't be Baptist, so they worked like hell to make sure there was no official state religion.

Then some idiot thought it would be a good idea to form an alliance between industrialists/libertarians, and evangelicals. The result is the conservative movement you see today.

Now the evangelicals have access to an enormous amount of political power, so they've suddenly decided that separation of church and state is a bad thing. In order to avoid looking like fools when they suddenly reversed their positions, they started spreading a lot of lies to their followers, insisting that the original intent of the founding fathers was to establish a Baptist theocracy and that anyone who says otherwise is part of an atheistic/Satanic conspiracy against god. That way, if any of the older Baptist parishoners complained "Wait a minute, didn't we used to defend separation of church and state?" they could be immediately silenced simply by accusing them of working with Satan.

Spread enough lies, and even fairly educated people will start to believe them. Convince them that those who don't believe in the lies are part of a sinister conspiracy to persecute them for the crime of knowing the truth, then they will hold on to those lies no matter what evidence is presented to them.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Playball, I just need to reassure you that your choice to remain silent in no way means that you were not "true to yourself". You assessed pros and cons and concluded that there were more cons than pros.

I do understand thought that it is difficult to live in a society where not being conformed to its predominantly religious profile may mean rejection of our own person no matter which good we may have done. As President of the PTA , you have been volunteering your time and energy and contributed to improving relations between parents , Faculty members and Staff. Let alone the number of time PTAs will undertake fundraisers and other functions benefiting the school. It is a lot of work, I know.

IMO "timing and attitude" are 2 choices to make before announcing who we are and why who we are is not compatible with the expected "norm" religious people tend to abide to, "norm" which greatly affect how they perceive social reforms and other topics. Their opinions being ever so tainted by what "The Good Book" says or more precisely how they interpret it.

I have found that liberal Christians are far more understanding of a statement conveying " I have no religious beliefs" than conservative Christians do. Probably why one of my closest friends in the US is a liberal Christian. She can discuss her faith or opinions guided by her faith without my "pooping on her party" and she responds to my discussing my position as a non believer without "pooping on my own party". We both know where we stand but we also appreciate each other as individuals who have great affection for each other.I have been there for her in her difficult times and she is there for me in mine.

I was in a situation a bit similar to yours but without the pressure of potential repercussions affecting me and my children. These two fine people were not religious. They were strong Atheists. We all went out for dinner and of course the discussion went towards social, political issues etc...Mind you that some of their very vocal stances were about prohibiting the practice of any religion in the US. I bit my tongue as to declaring my "true to myself" as an agnostic but also multi culturalist who supports cultural and ethnic pluralism in any nation holding the title of a pluralistic democratic Republic. It was evident to me that they had not just formed such extreme position a few days ago. I asked myself, is it worth my triggering an adversarial response on their part by announcing my own identity and position? I have learned that I should not expect tolerance and attempts to understand from people who exhibit the trait of extremism. So, I keep silent. Why ruining such a pleasant meal by my dropping my own bomb?

I have kept silent in other occasions too and without the pressure of repercussions on me or my loved ones. Just a matter of evaluating whether I would be wasting my time. In no way, it means that I am not true to myself as I remain aware of the fields of activism I volunteer for.

I truly like both of these people and believe in they're heart is absolutely in the right place. They want the same goals but disagree with the methods of acheiving them. But it's scary to me that they believe the whole myth of the US being a Christian country somehow hijacked by the heathens. And it felt even worse that I didn't feel I could say a word to the contrary. It had to feel like being a German in 1939 that despised Nazism and Hitler but would lose their lives and livelihoods by speaking out. I know we are not THERE, but is it possible we could get there?

It took the manipulation of the Old Constitution of Weimar for the Nazi party to be able to muzzle the opposition. I am not envisioning similar process happening in the US. The opposition to the Religious Right in the US is not just from us Skeptics, but also the majority of liberal progressists. Groups such as Americans United led by a Christian clergy member strongly promote and support the separation of Church and State. They are one of the watch dogs exposing breaches of the Establishment Clause via their activism. They do not want a theocratic craphole. They do not cultivate the belief that the "US is a Christian country being somehow hijacked by the heathens".

So, non, I do not think were are going to "get there", the "there" being your illustration in Nazi Germany. Just another moment of reassurance.

 

[doubtingt]

First, I wouldn't lead with telling them you are an atheist. That is not really relevant to the fact that they are just plain wrong that the US was founded on Christian principles or that those principles (e.g., authoritarian obedience, faith over reasoned thought) are even compatible with the founding principles or the valuing of public education in valid evidence-based disciplines of sciences and history.

The early settlements were founded upon Christian principles, which is why they were places of authoritarian injustice, zero democracy, no respect for liberty, and where people were tortured and murdered by the governments for their beliefs. The US was not founded by these people and their anti democracy and anti liberty values. It was founded only when the US Constitution was written which rejected the tethering of law with particular religious beliefs and heavily shaped Enlightenment philosophy that valued reason over faith and largely rejected the intellectual validity of religious doctrine.

How you should proceed depends upon who these people really are.

You say that

"they're heart is absolutely in the right place. They want the same goals but disagree with the methods of acheiving them."

But this seems unlikely given that you said they think Christianity should be "the law of the land" and that you think they would have you fired just for being an atheist. Those are not just methods, they reflect their goals which are not to educate children but to indoctrinate and control them, and to rob people of their freedom of thought and speech by punishing them for their beliefs. People with good hearts do not do that. Don't mistakes "concern for the children" rhetoric for a good heart or laudable goals. Claims of protecting the children is the first weapon that people reach for when seeking to use authoritarian power to violate others' liberty.

If I were you, I'd get them on tape first praising the work you are doing, then talking about making Christianity the law of the land, then reacting to you questioning this and revealing your atheism. IF they move to have you removed, then leak the tapes to the media and they will lose their jobs, as they should, not for their beliefs but for their actions to punish you for yours.

 

[abaddon]

To remain true to yourself within situations where there is compulsion, the choice is open resistance against it or surreptitious undermining of it. You're better equipped to do this if you don't reveal things that are not their business or not helpful to your purpose. Especially if confessional material isn't even relevant to the topic. Your atheism had nothing to do with those person’s mistaken ideas about political history.

If there’s a feeling you "should" reveal things about yourself to others, as if it's sneaky to not be an open book, that’s compulsion too. Unfree, thus not representative of your true self, thus inauthentic.

I can be both my authentic self and a defender of my principles without personal confessions. Similar to the 5th amendment's purpose, your freedom to be who and how you want to be depends sometimes on the wisdom of choosing silence.

 

[Kharakov]

To remain true to yourself within situations where there is compulsion, the choice is open resistance against it or surreptitious undermining of it.

What about in situations in which you believe there is compulsion to act in a certain way, when there is not?

Do you need a lash of the whip to snap you out of your useless thoughts which undermine your relationship with the one you wrongfully believe is compelling you to act in a certain way? Would you take a lash the wrong way? Are you wise enough to understand what the lash is for, or do you think that it is compulsion to act in the way you mistakenly thought another required you to act?

 

[credoconsolans]

OP:

You should have spoken up.

You should have said, "I'm not a Christian." WHAT you are, is none of their business.

Then they would have been forced to either defend why their religion is better than the one they presume is yours and that would have shut down their bragging.

Without speaking up,silence implies consent and if this is their attitude then expect to find more things in the school that ignore the separation of church and state (if it is a public school).

 

[braces_for_impact]

OP:

You should have spoken up.

You should have said, "I'm not a Christian." WHAT you are, is none of their business.

Then they would have been forced to either defend why their religion is better than the one they presume is yours and that would have shut down their bragging.

Without speaking up,silence implies consent and if this is their attitude then expect to find more things in the school that ignore the separation of church and state (if it is a public school).

I myself don't judge such situations lightly since I'm not in the OP's shoes. There are ways to fight c/s issues without revealing your identity. Also, Christians often don't shut up because of their inability to defend their beliefs, at least, it hasn't stopped them for the last 2000 years.

The OP is frightened about the coming out consequences for her children, and here in the south, rightly so.

 

[HaRaAYaH]

This past weekend I needed to attend an "open house" of sorts for the county school district (it was free immunizations, physicals and supplies among other things). I attended as PTA President for my kids' school with the Principal and Guidance Counselor. It was a five-hour event and of course we had time to chit chat about many things like: the new common core standards, health care in the US and government regulations. I could tell from the tone that the Principal does not agree with single-payor UHC (she commented on how bad it is for her cousin in Norway). We all agreed something needed to change. When discussing regulations, I could see it from their perspective. The regulations/requirements/bureacracy for the public school system is absurd and genuinely takes too much from the purpose: educating children. She agreed wall street needed more regulations however, so we agreed that many regulation are mis-guided. Some need to be lifted, some added.

When health care came up again she said she just doesn't believe the government should be involved in health care for the poor and that it should be up to private charity (she pointed out how her church sponsored an immigrant family 10 years ago). I explained that it did not benefit enough people and something was needed for those "left out" or didn't belong to a church.

Then it started. The Guidance Counselor said she had two master's degrees and that the problems in this country could be fixed if we simply returned to the Chrisitan principles upon which this country was founded and that Christianity should be the law of the land.....blah blah blah. The Principal agreed. I just sat there dumbfounded knowing that if I even casually mentioned I was an atheist I would be ousted from the PTA and my children would suffer for it. I knew I couldn't say a word. But felt sick to my stomach at the same time.

I truly like both of these people and believe in they're heart is absolutely in the right place. They want the same goals but disagree with the methods of acheiving them. But it's scary to me that they believe the whole myth of the US being a Christian country somehow hijacked by the heathens. And it felt even worse that I didn't feel I could say a word to the contrary. It had to feel like being a German in 1939 that despised Nazism and Hitler but would lose their lives and livelihoods by speaking out. I know we are not THERE, but is it possible we could get there?

I have worked with the public for more than 40 years. I impart this advise to all of my students. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever try use logic against crazy. If you are wearing a green shirt and someone says it's nice shade of pink, just thank them and go on your way. You can be civil in your dealings with people, but don't expect Socratic dialog when that is the basis of their ideas. If you gave them a spread sheet showing each of the founding fathers and whether they were theists, deists, or atheists, they wouldn't believe you anyway. I say this a pretty religious person who has less than no inclination to favor forcing anyone, especially through government power to follow what I believe. Sometimes it's better to be happy than right. You did not betray yourself or your beliefs because you decided these two wing nuts could not handle the reality of the founding of the country.....

 

[credoconsolans]

OP:

You should have spoken up.

You should have said, "I'm not a Christian." WHAT you are, is none of their business.

Then they would have been forced to either defend why their religion is better than the one they presume is yours and that would have shut down their bragging.

Without speaking up,silence implies consent and if this is their attitude then expect to find more things in the school that ignore the separation of church and state (if it is a public school).

I myself don't judge such situations lightly since I'm not in the OP's shoes. There are ways to fight c/s issues without revealing your identity. Also, Christians often don't shut up because of their inability to defend their beliefs, at least, it hasn't stopped them for the last 2000 years.

The OP is frightened about the coming out consequences for her children, and here in the south, rightly so.

She can still remain quiet about her religion or lack there of and still be critical. In the south, the reason the Christians have gotten away with what they have all these years is because people are afraid to speak out.