How much does the hypocrisy of Christians make you doubt the claims of Christianity?

[Unknown Soldier]

We all know that Christians sin--a lot. They have a reputation for hypocrisy , and it's only common sense to doubt the words of corrupt people. I was recently debating some Christians as "Christ's advocate," and I was arguing that they are sinners who need to repent. They countered my arguments arguing that they can sin and still be saved--the best of both worlds, if you will. "All this and heaven too!" And we both backed up what we were saying by citing Bible passages--sometimes the same passages. Anyway, in the course of all that debating, I thought it was really obvious that those Christians were determined to sin and look good (in the eyes of Christ) doing it. They seemed to have no difficulty twisting the truth to their advantage. How can anybody be so gullible as to believe scammers like that? The answer, of course, is that a lot of people are so gullible--billions of them, in fact.

Now, some Christian apologists will tell skeptics that they cannot blame Christianity for the hypocrisy of Christians. I'm not so sure. If Christianity is so great, then why are so many Christians disobeying their own religion? Is it a tacit admission that they can have more fun sinning--a lifestyle they prefer? Heaven can wait; until God calls us home, let's have fun right here on earth.

 

[Tigers!]

Now, some Christian apologists will tell skeptics that they cannot blame Christianity for the hypocrisy of Christians. I'm not so sure. If Christianity is so great, then why are so many Christians disobeying their own religion?

You have made a good observation. I have seen far too many fellow believers who do not and do not seem to want to truly follow Christ. I sometimes wonder how real is their faith? Luke 6:46-49 comes to mind very often.

 

[FwL]

I doubt the claims of Christianity because those claims are absurd.

The hypocrisy of Christians only makes me doubt Christians.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Now, some Christian apologists will tell skeptics that they cannot blame Christianity for the hypocrisy of Christians. I'm not so sure. If Christianity is so great, then why are so many Christians disobeying their own religion?

You have made a good observation. I have seen far too many fellow believers who do not and do not seem to want to truly follow Christ.

People obviously tend to do what they want to do and like to do. If they really want to obey Jesus, then they will obey Jesus. If they want to sin, then they will sin. Since so many Christians sin, it's obvious that they want to sin because they like it more than they like Jesus! But they know sin cannot grant them eternal life, and that's where Jesus enters the picture. To solve the dilemma posed by sin versus salvation, they interpret the Bible to grant them the liberty to choose both. It's the best of both worlds--it's all this sin and heaven too.

I sometimes wonder how real is their faith? Luke 6:46-49 comes to mind very often.

Many Christians, Protestants in particular, tend to downplay Christ's injunctions to apply work and abstinence to one's salvation opting for Paul's doctrine of salvation by faith. Salvation by faith is so much easier than giving to the poor and forgoing prostitutes--or so they think. It looks to me like many Christians are just weak-willed lacking self-control.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I doubt the claims of Christianity because those claims are absurd.

Most of their claims are absurd. It is possible, though, that Jesus existed and was crucified by the Romans.

The hypocrisy of Christians only makes me doubt Christians.

Absolutely. If they don't really believe it, then why should anybody else? To be credible, one must act with integrity.

 

[FwL]

I doubt the claims of Christianity because those claims are absurd.

Most of their claims are absurd. It is possible, though, that Jesus existed and was crucified by the Romans.

In my opinion, once you remove the resurrection from the story, who cares if somebody named Jesus ever lived or was crucified by the Romans? That's like saying it's possible that somebody named Jack actually lived, and he might have planted some beans.

The hypocrisy of Christians only makes me doubt Christians.

Absolutely. If they don't really believe it, then why should anybody else? To be credible, one must act with integrity.

I don't really care what other people believe, so long as they keep it to themselves... which, of course, Christians are loathe to do. But if a person is going to wave the Bible around yet fail to live by the morality and family values they profess, then that person can't be trusted in any other interaction, either.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

We all know that Christians sin--a lot. They have a reputation for hypocrisy , and it's only common sense to doubt the words of corrupt people. I was recently debating some Christians as "Christ's advocate," and I was arguing that they are sinners who need to repent. They countered my arguments arguing that they can sin and still be saved--the best of both worlds, if you will. "All this and heaven too!" And we both backed up what we were saying by citing Bible passages--sometimes the same passages. Anyway, in the course of all that debating, I thought it was really obvious that those Christians were determined to sin and look good (in the eyes of Christ) doing it. They seemed to have no difficulty twisting the truth to their advantage. How can anybody be so gullible as to believe scammers like that? The answer, of course, is that a lot of people are so gullible--billions of them, in fact.

Now, some Christian apologists will tell skeptics that they cannot blame Christianity for the hypocrisy of Christians. I'm not so sure. If Christianity is so great, then why are so many Christians disobeying their own religion? Is it a tacit admission that they can have more fun sinning--a lifestyle they prefer? Heaven can wait; until God calls us home, let's have fun right here on earth.

If we read the NT carefully, God arbitrarily selects the elect and the non-elect. And all of that was predestined from the beginning of creation. God arbitrarily decides who shall be "vessels of wrath" and who shall be " vessels of mercy". Thhe idea that one can choose salvation by repentence of sins is a contradictory concept in the Bible. And do remember, Paul got his theology straight from the spirit of Jesus Christ, who is God, himself.

We read a number of claims from the prophets that God can put his spirit in us, his laws and statutes in our "inner most parts", our hearts so we will never stray from God. Thus implying, if one strays, one lacks God's supernatural guidance as promised and thus are not of the elect. And almost assuredly damned.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I doubt the claims of Christianity because those claims are absurd.

Most of their claims are absurd. It is possible, though, that Jesus existed and was crucified by the Romans.

In my opinion, once you remove the resurrection from the story, who cares if somebody named Jesus ever lived or was crucified by the Romans? That's like saying it's possible that somebody named Jack actually lived, and he might have planted some beans.

LOL--in one clever quip you've exposed a major weakness in the Jesus-historicity of people like Bart Ehrman. To save the historicity of Jesus, they've trimmed all the miraculous fat from Jesus to make his historicity plausible. But all we're left with is some loser preacher who got himself killed by the Romans--hardly what is normally thought of as the Jesus of the New Testament. In other words, to maintain the historicity of Jesus they change Jesus. As Robert Price might say, it's like saying there really was a Clark Kent/Superman only he wasn't able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

But I digress.

The hypocrisy of Christians only makes me doubt Christians.

Absolutely. If they don't really believe it, then why should anybody else? To be credible, one must act with integrity.

I don't really care what other people believe, so long as they keep it to themselves... which, of course, Christians are loathe to do.

I do care what people believe. For example, if they believe I should be dead, then I want to know. Generally, I want to live in a society full of educated people who can think critically. I've been harmed more than once by people's ignorance and irrationality.

But if a person is going to wave the Bible around yet fail to live by the morality and family values they profess, then that person can't be trusted in any other interaction, either.

It appears that religion is so popular because in the "right" hands religion can be used to attain wealth and power not to mention used as a handy way to cover up corruption.

 

[TomC]

In my opinion, once you remove the resurrection from the story, who cares if somebody named Jesus ever lived or was crucified by the Romans? That's like saying it's possible that somebody named Jack actually lived, and he might have planted some beans.

That's a rather simplistic opinion.

The Legend of Christ impacted human history hugely. More than many other historical figures. Almost any.

But unlike Alexander the Great or Julius Ceasar, Jesus the Messiah had no impact on human history at all. The apocalyptic cult founded in His name did, but Jesus may as well have never existed.
From the standpoint of human history.
Tom

 

[Unknown Soldier]

We all know that Christians sin--a lot. They have a reputation for hypocrisy , and it's only common sense to doubt the words of corrupt people. I was recently debating some Christians as "Christ's advocate," and I was arguing that they are sinners who need to repent. They countered my arguments arguing that they can sin and still be saved--the best of both worlds, if you will. "All this and heaven too!" And we both backed up what we were saying by citing Bible passages--sometimes the same passages. Anyway, in the course of all that debating, I thought it was really obvious that those Christians were determined to sin and look good (in the eyes of Christ) doing it. They seemed to have no difficulty twisting the truth to their advantage. How can anybody be so gullible as to believe scammers like that? The answer, of course, is that a lot of people are so gullible--billions of them, in fact.

Now, some Christian apologists will tell skeptics that they cannot blame Christianity for the hypocrisy of Christians. I'm not so sure. If Christianity is so great, then why are so many Christians disobeying their own religion? Is it a tacit admission that they can have more fun sinning--a lifestyle they prefer? Heaven can wait; until God calls us home, let's have fun right here on earth.

If we read the NT carefully, God arbitrarily selects the elect and the non-elect. And all of that was predestined from the beginning of creation. God arbitrarily decides who shall be "vessels of wrath" and who shall be " vessels of mercy".

That is correct. The relevant passage is from 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which tells us:

But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

Oddly, I quoted this passage to a Christian I know, and he said he didn't see the part in bold about God choosing people to be saved. I suppose the Bible violated his belief in free will!

Thhe idea that one can choose salvation by repentence of sins is a contradictory concept in the Bible.

What contradicts what? Are you saying that Paul's salvation by faith contradicts Jesus commanding people to do things to be saved? I think that that is contradictory.

And do remember, Paul got his theology straight from the spirit of Jesus Christ, who is God, himself.

That's what Paul said. If Paul got his Gospel from "hearing voices" only, then how did he miss all those eyewitness accounts of the historical Jesus?

We read a number of claims from the prophets that God can put his spirit in us, his laws and statutes in our "inner most parts", our hearts so we will never stray from God. Thus implying, if one strays, one lacks God's supernatural guidance as promised and thus are not of the elect. And almost assuredly damned.

That's correct. Sinning is an obvious sign that one is full of something, but it's not the Holy Ghost!

Very good exegesis.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

My main computer is down or I would post the claims of the prophets God can place his laws and statutes in our hearts. If after the Great Comission", why not do so for all mankind? Thus we dispose of the free will defenses. If we live in a world where all are not perfect, God gets all the blame.

This wretched Android tablets does not do cut and paste.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

My main computer is down or I would post the claims of the prophets God can place his laws and statutes in our hearts. If after the Great Comission", why not do so for all mankind? Thus we dispose of the free will defenses. If we live in a world where all are not perfect, God gets all the blame.

This wretched Android tablets does not do cut and paste.

I think the idea is that although God has placed his law "on our hearts" we nevertheless have the free will to disobey that law. The supposed prophets who have told us about that law don't seem able to explain why God would only tell them this important revelation rather than all of us as you say. Doesn't God realize that a true prophet and a false prophet can be difficult to distinguish at least at first? Another problem is that human prophets have very limited outreach. The Biblical prophets didn't get their word out to some people who lived far away for almost two thousand years! It's interesting how God seems to have the same limits people do.

But apologists are not at a loss to explain the apparent limitations of God's human prophets. William Lane Craig, for instance, explains that strictly speaking, no people are completely denied God's revelation of the Gospel. If human prophets are not available in some remote parts of the world, then the Gospel speaks in nature! Simple observation of God's works should be sufficient to let all people know that He's "there" and that he wants us to repent obeying His law on our hearts and accepting his salvation.

So you can accept Jesus as your savior without necessarily knowing the details of His story or even His name. Just look at a lake as the sun sets.

But getting back to the OP, I must wonder how if clear, detailed knowledge of the Gospel so often fails to change people, then how can looking at trees and birds change people? People sin because they love to, and that goes for people in Jerusalem, Dallas, and in villages in the heart of the Amazon.