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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Harry Bosch

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Russia is at it again:


I don't think that severe economic consequences are going to deter Russia. I know that the west has been helping Ukraine up it's defensive capability. It will be painful for Russia to invade. Perhaps invasion could be prevented if Nato moved troops directly into Ukraine. But that seems like just temping WW3.

Another option is to have the shut Russia from the Belgium-based SWIFT system of financial payments that moves money among thousands of banks around the world. This would hurt Russia great. It could cut them off half their oil export revenue and a third of their foreign trade. I've seen it reported that
Russia depends on its oil and natural gas exports for more than one-third of its federal revenues, and depends on SWIFT to make the petrodollars flow.
 

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Russia is at it again:


I don't think that severe economic consequences are going to deter Russia. I know that the west has been helping Ukraine up it's defensive capability. It will be painful for Russia to invade. Perhaps invasion could be prevented if Nato moved troops directly into Ukraine. But that seems like just temping WW3.

Another option is to have the shut Russia from the Belgium-based SWIFT system of financial payments that moves money among thousands of banks around the world. This would hurt Russia great. It could cut them off half their oil export revenue and a third of their foreign trade. I've seen it reported that
Russia depends on its oil and natural gas exports for more than one-third of its federal revenues, and depends on SWIFT to make the petrodollars flow.
If we cut Russia out of the global financial system, they will much more surely hit a fuck-it button. The whole model of Russian 'governance' is to be a loose cannon that nobody can disarm, for the sake of doing whatever the hell they want without meaningful challenge.
 

Elixir

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I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.
 
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barbos

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I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.
Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US, on the other hand, realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.
 

Elixir

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I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.
Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US on the other hand realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.
That explains the est. 90,000 troop buildup on the Ukranian Border. </sarcasm>
Someone in Russia obviously thinks that is a good idea.

I believe that the someone is Putin, and that he thinks it's a good idea because it takes public focus off other annoyances like Navalny and COVID.

How am I "projecting"?
I think you're just saying that there will be few people rallying for Russian imperialism, and that's believable but irrelevant.
 

barbos

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That explains the est. 90,000 troop buildup on the Ukranian Border.
Yes, it actually explains it. Because Ukraine moved half on their of forces to the border with breakout republics. If US wants to start a war then Russia must be prepared.
 

Harry Bosch

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That explains the est. 90,000 troop buildup on the Ukranian Border.
Yes, it actually explains it. Because Ukraine moved half on their of forces to the border with breakout republics. If US wants to start a war then Russia must be prepared.
Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting? Why would the US want a war in Ukraine? We are just seeking ways to defuse the situation and prevent an invasion.
I think you're just saying that there will be few people rallying for Russian imperialism, and that's believable but irrelevant.
Shit MSM feeds you about Russia are utter lies.
Are you trying to say that Russia isn't amassing troops on the Ukrainian border?
 

barbos

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
 

barbos

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Are you trying to say that Russia isn't amassing troops on the Ukrainian border?
I am saying that MSM forgot to inform you that Ukrainian Trump is doing the same.
And, unlike Russia, in doing so they are violating Minsk agreements.

Russian press discuss how much that supposedly leaked invasion plan looks like it was made up in Pentagon (military terms which are not used in Russia and other stuff)
 

Harry Bosch

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
Good Heavens! Those Ukrainian Nazi meanies again! But how are they trying to start a war with Russia? Are you saying that Russian troops aren't amassing on their border? What would you say is a proper response for a country when foreign troops are amassing on their border? I think that the larger issue here is that Russia is scared. Bypassing Ukraine is the best long strategy for Ukraine. It's forcing Ukraine to organically grow their own economy and diversify away from Russia and oil profits. Oil profits are fleeting and uncertain. Russia will find this out in a year or so.
 

Harry Bosch

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Are you trying to say that Russia isn't amassing troops on the Ukrainian border?
I am saying that MSM forgot to inform you that Ukrainian Trump is doing the same.
And, unlike Russia, in doing so they are violating Minsk agreements.

Russian press discuss how much that supposedly leaked invasion plan looks like it was made up in Pentagon (military terms which are not used in Russia and other stuff)
How is Ukraine violating the Minsk agreements? Could you please provide a reliable link to support your opinion as well?
 

barbos

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
Good Heavens! Those Ukrainian Nazi meanies again! But how are they trying to start a war with Russia? Are you saying that Russian troops aren't amassing on their border? What would you say is a proper response for a country when foreign troops are amassing on their border? I think that the larger issue here is that Russia is scared. Bypassing Ukraine is the best long strategy for Ukraine. It's forcing Ukraine to organically grow their own economy and diversify away from Russia and oil profits. Oil profits are fleeting and uncertain. Russia will find this out in a year or so.
Do you even read what I write?
Ukraine started amassing troops for invasion of breakout republics, which is specifically forbidden by Minsk agreement. Your shitty media does not mention that at all.
Yes, fucking nazy in the fucking Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.
 

Harry Bosch

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
Good Heavens! Those Ukrainian Nazi meanies again! But how are they trying to start a war with Russia? Are you saying that Russian troops aren't amassing on their border? What would you say is a proper response for a country when foreign troops are amassing on their border? I think that the larger issue here is that Russia is scared. Bypassing Ukraine is the best long strategy for Ukraine. It's forcing Ukraine to organically grow their own economy and diversify away from Russia and oil profits. Oil profits are fleeting and uncertain. Russia will find this out in a year or so.
Do you even read what I write?
Ukraine started amassing troops for invasion of breakout republics, which is specifically forbidden by Minsk agreement. Your shitty media does not mention that at all.
Yes, fucking nazy in the fucking Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.
links?
 

barbos

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
Good Heavens! Those Ukrainian Nazi meanies again! But how are they trying to start a war with Russia? Are you saying that Russian troops aren't amassing on their border? What would you say is a proper response for a country when foreign troops are amassing on their border? I think that the larger issue here is that Russia is scared. Bypassing Ukraine is the best long strategy for Ukraine. It's forcing Ukraine to organically grow their own economy and diversify away from Russia and oil profits. Oil profits are fleeting and uncertain. Russia will find this out in a year or so.
Do you even read what I write?
Ukraine started amassing troops for invasion of breakout republics, which is specifically forbidden by Minsk agreement. Your shitty media does not mention that at all.
Yes, fucking nazy in the fucking Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.
links?
CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
 

Harry Bosch

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.
Good Heavens! Those Ukrainian Nazi meanies again! But how are they trying to start a war with Russia? Are you saying that Russian troops aren't amassing on their border? What would you say is a proper response for a country when foreign troops are amassing on their border? I think that the larger issue here is that Russia is scared. Bypassing Ukraine is the best long strategy for Ukraine. It's forcing Ukraine to organically grow their own economy and diversify away from Russia and oil profits. Oil profits are fleeting and uncertain. Russia will find this out in a year or so.
Do you even read what I write?
Ukraine started amassing troops for invasion of breakout republics, which is specifically forbidden by Minsk agreement. Your shitty media does not mention that at all.
Yes, fucking nazy in the fucking Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.
links?
CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
If you are correct, and Russia is truly afraid of tiny Ukraine invading Russia, the the world should fully unite against Russia. A powerful country with nukes that is so paranoid of a tiny military with little offensive power is too great a risk to world security.
 

barbos

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If you are correct, and Russia is truly afraid of tiny Ukraine invading Russia, the the world should fully unite against Russia. A powerful country with nukes that is so paranoid of a tiny military with little offensive power is too great a risk to world security.
Well, technically Eastern Ukraine is not Russia..... yet. But I see nothing wrong with russian forces being proactive and preparing for Ukrainian/American provocations. Just to show Ukraine that Russia will protect status-quo.
As for Ukraine invading actual Russia, you will be laughing but such ideas are very popular in Ukraine. They are seriously making territorial claims on as far as Siberia.
I am not kidding. Ukraine is a country where Capitol rioters won.
 

SigmatheZeta

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If Europe were to move to defend their own territory, then I would support my country giving them military assistance. If they were to cut off Putin's balls and staple them to his forehead, then I would not say anything about it.
 

barbos

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Reminded me a story which old lady which got infected with Covid along with me told me recently.
She recovered by the way. Anyway, she is a russian but originally from Ukraine and has a bunch of relatives there including sister or cousin. She regularly skypes with them.
And she was once talking with one of her grand-something no older than 7 I think. And he said he wants to kill russians. Go figure. Of course she told him that she herself is russian. Kids just repeat shit the hear.
 
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barbos

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If Europe were to move to defend their own territory, then I would support my country giving them military assistance. If they were to cut off Putin's balls and staple them to his forehead, then I would not say anything about it.
You are a victim of anti-russian propaganda.
And what do you call Europe here?
 

SigmatheZeta

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If Europe were to move to defend their own territory, then I would support my country giving them military assistance. If they were to cut off Putin's balls and staple them to his forehead, then I would not say anything about it.
You are a victim of anti-russian propaganda.
I am an anarchist :3.
 

Harry Bosch

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If Europe were to move to defend their own territory, then I would support my country giving them military assistance. If they were to cut off Putin's balls and staple them to his forehead, then I would not say anything about it.
You are a victim of anti-russian propaganda.
I am an anarchist :3.
SigmatheZeta: I'd recommend seeking medical attention immediately. Your above response is classic response from a victim of anti-Russian propaganda!
 

SigmatheZeta

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Generally, I am rooted in both ancient Epicurean and ancient Pyrrhonist sentiments, although I am somewhat sympathetic toward the intentions behind ancient Cynicism.
If Europe were to move to defend their own territory, then I would support my country giving them military assistance. If they were to cut off Putin's balls and staple them to his forehead, then I would not say anything about it.
You are a victim of anti-russian propaganda.
I am an anarchist :3.
SigmatheZeta: I'd recommend seeking medical attention immediately. Your above response is classic response from a victim of anti-Russian propaganda!

Realistically, the only way that Russia could succeed at holding Ukraine for long would be if the Europeans were to alienate the Ukrainian anarchist organizations because, right at this very moment, the anarchists have a strong position as kingmaker in Ukraine. If I were among the leadership in the EU, then I would start making reforms to protect the free association of labor. The Ukrainian right-wing might not like it, but the Ukrainian right-wing hate the Russians substantially more than they hate their indigenous anarchist organizations. Once Ukraine has finished the paperwork to join the EU in 2030, I seriously doubt that Europe would be tolerant of Russian forces on their own damn soil. The places where Russian forces aren't unless they are being burned alive, beyond that point, are places that the EU does not choose to define as within the borders of Ukraine. Wherever the EU decides to draw those borders, I respect those borders, and if Putin is not as dumb as he looks, then he would, too.
 

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia. It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
 

SigmatheZeta

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Last I heard, it was pretty decided that Ukraine was going to be filing the paperwork to join the EU in 2024.
 

Elixir

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That explains the est. 90,000 troop buildup on the Ukranian Border.
Yes, it actually explains it. Because Ukraine moved half on their of forces to the border with breakout republics. If US wants to start a war then Russia must be prepared.

ROFL the stuff your sources feed you about the USA are lies as well, and generally better crafted.
I was going to mention how Putin is probably afraid that Ukraine will invade Russia with US backing, to support Ukrainian imperial expansionist ambitions.
Glad I didn’t mention it :)
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.

How can they afford a war if in deep economic shit?
 

barbos

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.

How can they afford a war if in deep economic shit?
They can't afford doing nothing even more. And the plan is to get paid by US.
And if they are successful at getting Eastern Ukraine back they will have coal for powerstations.
 

barbos

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That explains the est. 90,000 troop buildup on the Ukranian Border.
Yes, it actually explains it. Because Ukraine moved half on their of forces to the border with breakout republics. If US wants to start a war then Russia must be prepared.

ROFL the stuff your sources feed you about the USA are lies as well, and generally better crafted.
I was going to mention how Putin is probably afraid that Ukraine will invade Russia with US backing, to support Ukrainian imperial expansionist ambitions.
Glad I didn’t mention it :)
My sources? how are they mine? these are ukrainian sources, they don't really hide their intentions. And stop this crap about russian expansion. All Russia wants is for US stop paying scam around Russia to be a scam.
And Germany in particular agrees with that. The rest of the old EU agrees too, they are just less vocal about it.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Your posts to Elixir don't make sense to me. Where is the projecting?
He is projecting when he suggests that It's Russia. It's Ukraine and their nazies who are desperate enough to start a war and play the victim and US is perfectly fine with that plan. After all it worked in Georgia, why not try again?

Ukraine is in deep economic shit. They need a war, not Russia.
Russia is doing fine, gas prices at all time highs, oil is too doing well.
And Ukraine is about to collapse on their own. Gas retail prices jumped 5x, Power stations shutdowns because of lack coal.
Well, there is a risk of Ukrainian Trump starting a war, that's bad.

How can they afford a war if in deep economic shit?
They can't afford doing nothing even more. And the plan is to get paid by US.
And if they are successful at getting Eastern Ukraine back they will have coal for powerstations.

Back? Someone took it from them?
 

Jarhyn

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The US does not want "a war with Russia". Nobody WANTS a war with Russia. Ukraine certainly does not want war with Russia.

The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.

Then, Russia cries in bad faith to their people "Help, I'm being oppressed!" In the same way as a drug dealer may steal your money and then telling other passers-by that you are trying to rob them rather than accept the truth that they robbed you.

Nobody is trying to, and the gaslighting can go to hell. Putin is gaslighting you Barbos. And you are gaslighting us in turn. Take the blinders off and accept it: Russia is aggressing. They can either stop doing that or they will have started a war.
 

barbos

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The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Back? Someone took it from them?
Well, according to current Ukrainian government Russia took it from them.
In reality, people there simply revolted against trumpers US installed in Kiev.

There is humor in you complaining about Americans complaining about Russian interference, yet Russia gets a bit militaryish and it is self defense because [echo]America[/echo].
 

barbos

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Back? Someone took it from them?
Well, according to current Ukrainian government Russia took it from them.
In reality, people there simply revolted against trumpers US installed in Kiev.

There is humor in you complaining about Americans complaining about Russian interference, yet Russia gets a bit militaryish and it is self defense because [echo]America[/echo].
So US is OK with russian nukes in Cuba or Mexico now?
 

Jarhyn

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The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.
No, this is what the residents of the country who you declare of wanting a war says, and I am most certainly NOT lying.

I do not want a war with Russia over Ukraine. Ask any individual here whether they want that. I'm not speaking from MSM. I don't consume the media the way you appear to.

What I want is Russia to stop making overtures of war towards Ukraine.

Quit trying to gaslight me. Russia is gearing up to attack Ukraine. The first shots will be fired into Ukraine. All boots on the ground will be touching the ground on the Ukrainian side of the border. If bombs are dropped on Russian forces, they will be on Russian forces after those forces have started crossing a border. The only exception to this is the possibility of a stray shot coming from Ukraine being used as an excuse and fig leaf to do all of the above.

Putin can suck the place on the bus seat I plan on farting into repeatedly this morning for all I care, as to his desire that Ukraine have no involvement with NATO. As can you.

That's not up to you, or him. NATO is essentially there to keep Russia from doing this garbage.
 

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The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.
No, this is what the residents of the country who you declare of wanting a war says, and I am most certainly NOT lying.

I do not want a war with Russia over Ukraine. Ask any individual here whether they want that. I'm not speaking from MSM. I don't consume the media the way you appear to.

What I want is Russia to stop making overtures of war towards Ukraine.

Quit trying to gaslight me. Russia is gearing up to attack Ukraine. The first shots will be fired into Ukraine. All boots on the ground will be touching the ground on the Ukrainian side of the border. If bombs are dropped on Russian forces, they will be on Russian forces after those forces have started crossing a border. The only exception to this is the possibility of a stray shot coming from Ukraine being used as an excuse and fig leaf to do all of the above.

Putin can suck the place on the bus seat I plan on farting into repeatedly this morning for all I care, as to his desire that Ukraine have no involvement with NATO. As can you.

That's not up to you, or him. NATO is essentially there to keep Russia from doing this garbage.
Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.
 

Harry Bosch

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia. It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
I think that they would have a problem with it. I could be wrong, and I'd rely on Barbos to correct me here, but I really don't think that Russia is scared of Ukranian invasion! I think that the real deal is that they want a "zone of influence" over the countries that are on their border. They are frustrated because it isn't happening naturally (countries tend to not trust aggressive bullies). So they rely on force to get their way.
The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.
No, this is what the residents of the country who you declare of wanting a war says, and I am most certainly NOT lying.

I do not want a war with Russia over Ukraine. Ask any individual here whether they want that. I'm not speaking from MSM. I don't consume the media the way you appear to.

What I want is Russia to stop making overtures of war towards Ukraine.

Quit trying to gaslight me. Russia is gearing up to attack Ukraine. The first shots will be fired into Ukraine. All boots on the ground will be touching the ground on the Ukrainian side of the border. If bombs are dropped on Russian forces, they will be on Russian forces after those forces have started crossing a border. The only exception to this is the possibility of a stray shot coming from Ukraine being used as an excuse and fig leaf to do all of the above.

Putin can suck the place on the bus seat I plan on farting into repeatedly this morning for all I care, as to his desire that Ukraine have no involvement with NATO. As can you.

That's not up to you, or him. NATO is essentially there to keep Russia from doing this garbage.
Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.
If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
 

barbos

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If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
NATO!=West. Russia was not happy about Ukraine trying to get to EU, mainly because it would cost Russia money. But Russia did nothing to stop it. It's NATO.
Bully here is US. You are bullying everybody including Ukraine.
 
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barbos

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia.
Dude, you need to educate yourself more. Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia do not produce gas. What Ukraine is currently doing is called virtual reverse. These assholes built a short pipeline which goes around metering equipment at the border with EU.
All that thing does is makes gas flow through the counter higher than it really is.
That allows them to use russian gas from the pipe along its way in the Ukraine. And these assholes claim that they don't use russian gas. Even though they are using it and paying for it significantly more. Everybody in Ukraine knows that. But they keep pretending that they are buying gas from EU.
Problem with this arrangement (besides paying more) is that once Nord Stream 2 is operational, Russia can eventually stop transit through Ukraine because it is more expensive and less politically reliable. If that happens Ukraine would lose transit money and would have to start paying for real transit (of the same russian gas) from EU. Of course they could buy directly from Russia and do it cheaply. But proud nazies can't do that.



It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
No, of course Russia would have no problem with that. They can do it tomorrow.
They can shoot themselves in the other foot or jump from the high rise building too. Russia has no problem with that.


Now, everybody (Russians, Ukrainians, Europeans, even pentagon critters and your government) except you knows that.
You don't know that because your shit media is misinforming you.

What else you don't know?
Oh the fact that Russia has paid $250bil to Ukraine over the years.
Don't you think this entitle Russia for something? You have few CIA fuckers with what? $20mil? coming to Ukraine, organizing a coup, get bunch of idiots killed. And wow! Ukraine is a USA ally now! Wow! NATO! Wow!
 

Jimmy Higgins

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If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
NATO!=West. Russia was not happy about Ukraine trying to get to EU, mainly because it would cost Russia money. But Russia did nothing to stop it. It's NATO.
Bully here is US. You are bullying everybody including Ukraine.
Russia are just trying to stop poor and penniless Ukraine from becoming an empire.
 

barbos

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If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
NATO!=West. Russia was not happy about Ukraine trying to get to EU, mainly because it would cost Russia money. But Russia did nothing to stop it. It's NATO.
Bully here is US. You are bullying everybody including Ukraine.
Russia are just trying to stop poor and penniless Ukraine from becoming an empire.
Yes, at Russia's expense.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
NATO!=West. Russia was not happy about Ukraine trying to get to EU, mainly because it would cost Russia money. But Russia did nothing to stop it. It's NATO.
Bully here is US. You are bullying everybody including Ukraine.
Russia are just trying to stop poor and penniless Ukraine from becoming an empire.
Yes, at Russia's expense.
I'm sure the knowledge that they are righteous and helping protect those from empire hungry Ukraine is enough payment in itself.
 

TV and credit cards

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia.
Dude, you need to educate yourself more. Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia do not produce gas. What Ukraine is currently doing is called virtual reverse. These assholes built a short pipeline which goes around metering equipment at the border with EU.
All that thing does is makes gas flow through the counter higher than it really is.
That allows them to use russian gas from the pipe along its way in the Ukraine. And these assholes claim that they don't use russian gas. Even though they are using it and paying for it significantly more. Everybody in Ukraine knows that. But they keep pretending that they are buying gas from EU.
Problem with this arrangement (besides paying more) is that once Nord Stream 2 is operational, Russia can eventually stop transit through Ukraine because it is more expensive and less politically reliable. If that happens Ukraine would lose transit money and would have to start paying for real transit (of the same russian gas) from EU. Of course they could buy directly from Russia and do it cheaply. But proud nazies can't do that.



It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
No, of course Russia would have no problem with that. They can do it tomorrow.
They can shoot themselves in the other foot or jump from the high rise building too. Russia has no problem with that.


Now, everybody (Russians, Ukrainians, Europeans, even pentagon critters and your government) except you knows that.
You don't know that because your shit media is misinforming you.

What else you don't know?
Oh the fact that Russia has paid $250bil to Ukraine over the years.
Don't you think this entitle Russia for something? You have few CIA fuckers with what? $20mil? coming to Ukraine, organizing a coup, get bunch of idiots killed. And wow! Ukraine is a USA ally now! Wow! NATO! Wow!

If you could just provide some reference, anything that would lend a modicum of credibility to what you claim, I’d love to read it.

Here’s my shit, lying-ass MSM reference I drew my info from:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/17/ukraine-energy-diversification-russia-gazprom/
 

barbos

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia.
Dude, you need to educate yourself more. Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia do not produce gas. What Ukraine is currently doing is called virtual reverse. These assholes built a short pipeline which goes around metering equipment at the border with EU.
All that thing does is makes gas flow through the counter higher than it really is.
That allows them to use russian gas from the pipe along its way in the Ukraine. And these assholes claim that they don't use russian gas. Even though they are using it and paying for it significantly more. Everybody in Ukraine knows that. But they keep pretending that they are buying gas from EU.
Problem with this arrangement (besides paying more) is that once Nord Stream 2 is operational, Russia can eventually stop transit through Ukraine because it is more expensive and less politically reliable. If that happens Ukraine would lose transit money and would have to start paying for real transit (of the same russian gas) from EU. Of course they could buy directly from Russia and do it cheaply. But proud nazies can't do that.



It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
No, of course Russia would have no problem with that. They can do it tomorrow.
They can shoot themselves in the other foot or jump from the high rise building too. Russia has no problem with that.


Now, everybody (Russians, Ukrainians, Europeans, even pentagon critters and your government) except you knows that.
You don't know that because your shit media is misinforming you.

What else you don't know?
Oh the fact that Russia has paid $250bil to Ukraine over the years.
Don't you think this entitle Russia for something? You have few CIA fuckers with what? $20mil? coming to Ukraine, organizing a coup, get bunch of idiots killed. And wow! Ukraine is a USA ally now! Wow! NATO! Wow!

If you could just provide some reference, anything that would lend a modicum of credibility to what you claim, I’d love to read it.

Here’s my shit, lying-ass MSM reference I drew my info from:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/17/ukraine-energy-diversification-russia-gazprom/
That just proves that you are not even trying to get second opinion.
Try at least reading European news, german for example.
Seriosuly, how dumb you have to be to believe that Ukraine is using European gas?
diversification my ass.
Go to the fucking google maps and find that pipeline from EU to the Ukraine they get their gas from!
This is nothing but a last ditch effort to stop Nord Stream 2.
These fucking nazis know that the days of Russia paying for transit are about to end.

Same story with fucking coal. They claim they don't buy coal from Easten Ukraine...... except that they are (actually were) buying coal from Russia which come around from..... Eastern Ukraine. Why you ask? I am glad you asked.....Ukrainian power stations don't really work well with crap they got from US and South Africa. So they buy Eastern Ukrainian coal through Russia and lie that they are not using separatist's coal. This is what your MSM would never tell you.
 
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Elixir

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Aww, poor Pootey! Spent so many of his (stolen) billions trying to keep Ukraine in his portfolio, and now the bad bad US wants to kick the poor humanitarian to the curb and let the Trumpy Ukranians ally themselves with the European aggressors who have been trying to invade Russia and annex it for its oil ever since Crimea volunteered to become part of Russia.

^^^
Your news sources have turned you into a laughingstock, barbos.
Putin's ambition to re-create the Soviet glory days has remained the one constant in his erratic behavior. You can dress it up with all kinds lies, you can cite corrupt American motives, real and imagined, but the fact of Russia's perennial aggression can't be magically disappeared by your whining.
No, nukes in Cuba are still a non-starter, as the US putting nukes on the Ukranian/Russian border would be. That's not happening either.
 

barbos

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Aww, poor Pootey! Spent so many of his (stolen) billions trying to keep Ukraine in his portfolio, and now the bad bad US wants to kick the poor humanitarian to the curb and let the Trumpy Ukranians ally themselves with the European aggressors who have been trying to invade Russia and annex it for its oil ever since Crimea volunteered to become part of Russia.

^^^
Your news sources have turned you into a laughingstock, barbos.
Putin's ambition to re-create the Soviet glory days has remained the one constant in his erratic behavior. You can dress it up with all kinds lies, you can cite corrupt American motives, real and imagined, but the fact of Russia's perennial aggression can't be magically disappeared by your whining.
Can't counter facts and resort to attacking the messenger?
 

Elixir

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Aww, poor Pootey! Spent so many of his (stolen) billions trying to keep Ukraine in his portfolio, and now the bad bad US wants to kick the poor humanitarian to the curb and let the Trumpy Ukranians ally themselves with the European aggressors who have been trying to invade Russia and annex it for its oil ever since Crimea volunteered to become part of Russia.

^^^
Your news sources have turned you into a laughingstock, barbos.
Putin's ambition to re-create the Soviet glory days has remained the one constant in his erratic behavior. You can dress it up with all kinds lies, you can cite corrupt American motives, real and imagined, but the fact of Russia's perennial aggression can't be magically disappeared by your whining.
Can't counter facts and resort to attacking the messenger?
If "the messenger" ever came up with actual facts that were relevant and in context, I probably wouldn't counter them since they would be facts. But your specious pro-Putin bullshit contains few facts, and those it does reference are warped beyond recognition by the bias forced upon you by your handlers.
Not worth addressing, when the overriding fact is that rationalizing Russia's expansionist ambitions are truly the sole focus of all the arguments you've been fed. All those whataboutisms and false fears of the mighty Ukranian Empire encroaching on Russian territory - it's all bullshit, no matter how many irrelevant facts (like Russian nukes in Cuba) you try to drag into it.

Tell your bosses they need to send you into battle better equipped than this! It will make for much better discussion.
 

barbos

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Aww, poor Pootey! Spent so many of his (stolen) billions trying to keep Ukraine in his portfolio, and now the bad bad US wants to kick the poor humanitarian to the curb and let the Trumpy Ukranians ally themselves with the European aggressors who have been trying to invade Russia and annex it for its oil ever since Crimea volunteered to become part of Russia.

^^^
Your news sources have turned you into a laughingstock, barbos.
Putin's ambition to re-create the Soviet glory days has remained the one constant in his erratic behavior. You can dress it up with all kinds lies, you can cite corrupt American motives, real and imagined, but the fact of Russia's perennial aggression can't be magically disappeared by your whining.
Can't counter facts and resort to attacking the messenger?
If "the messenger" ever came up with actual facts that were relevant and in context, I probably wouldn't counter them since they would be facts. But your specious pro-Putin bullshit contains few facts, and those it does reference are warped beyond recognition by the bias forced upon you by your handlers.
Not worth addressing, when the overriding fact is that rationalizing Russia's expansionist ambitions are truly the sole focus of all the arguments you've been fed. All those whataboutisms and false fears of the mighty Ukranian Empire encroaching on Russian territory - it's all bullshit, no matter how many irrelevant facts (like Russian nukes in Cuba) you try to drag into it.

Tell your bosses they need to send you into battle better equipped than this! It will make for much better discussion.
I came with undeniable facts which refute your MSM "facts".
So stop your tiresome "Russian expansionism!" song.
Go and educate yourself.
 
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