If the economy is so great, why don't more people feel better off?

[southernhybrid]

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/12/11/most-americans-say-the-current-economy-is-helping-the-rich-hurting-the-poor-and-middle-class/

To the extent that current economic conditions are helping particular groups, the public sees the benefits flowing mainly to the most well-off. Roughly seven-in-ten adults (69%) say today’s economy is helping people who are wealthy (only 10% say the wealthy are being hurt). At the same time, majorities of Americans say poor people, those without a college degree, older adults, younger adults and the middle class are being hurt rather than helped by current economic conditions.

When asked how economic conditions are affecting them and their families, nearly half of adults (46%) say they are being hurt, 31% say they’re being helped and 22% say they don’t see much of an impact. Overall, Democrats are more likely than Republicans to say economic conditions are hurting their own families, but views differ significantly by income within parties.

A variety of factors go into Americans’ assessments of current economic conditions, the most prominent being perceptions about wages and income, the availability of jobs and the cost of health care. Two of these three factors are also seen as having a significant impact on people’s own financial situations: 51% say wages have a great deal of impact on their household finances, and 43% say the same about health care costs. The overall job situation is seen as less personally relevant. Instead, 45% say consumer prices have a large impact on their own financial health.

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

Two-thirds of lower-income adults (65%) say they worry almost daily about paying their bills, compared with about one-third of middle-income Americans (35%) and a small share of upper-income Americans (14%). The cost of health care is also a worry that weighs on the minds of many Americans, particularly those in the lower-income tier. More than half of lower-income adults (55%) say they frequently worry about the cost of health care for themselves and their families; fewer middle-income (37%) and upper-income Americans (18%) share this worry.

Trump keeps shouting that the economy is great, when in fact, GDP is pretty much the same as it's been when Obama was president. Unemployment is low, but baby boomers are retiring daily in large numbers adding to the number of available jobs. Corporations were given huge tax breaks, but most of it was used for stock buy backs. It doesn't make senses to see so many people in dire need of financial help and wage increases, yet Trump is still very popular among his low class base. I get why the rich love him, if all they care about is having more money due to the tax break give to them by the Republicans. I just don't understand why so many lower middle class and poor people continue to support a man who has done nothing for them when it comes to their own financial needs. Very few of them own stocks or investments, so why should such things matter to them? Imo, Trump is a successful cult leader so it doesn't matter what he does, the cult will always be loyal. Or they will support him because they are so fearful of losing their guns or of having women's reproductive rights fully restored. Seriously, the cult of trump is the only thing that makes sense to me as to why so many adore this. man!

I read yesterday that 40% of Americans still don't have 400 bucks for an emergency. I personally know several people who are in that situation, but only one is a Trump supporter.

And, how did our perceptions of the economy become so partisan? Do facts not matter at all anymore?

There are differences across parties, however, with Democrats much more likely than Republicans to say current economic conditions are hurting the middle class (72% vs. 41%) and the poor (83% vs. 41%). There are also differences within parties. Republicans are particularly divided by income when it comes to views of which groups the economy is hurting. For example, about half of lower-income Republicans (49%) say the economy is hurting the middle class, compared with smaller shares of middle-income (39%) and upper-income Republicans (33%). Majorities of Democrats across all income groups say the economy is not working for the middle class (77% of higher-income vs. 79% of middle-income vs. 61% of lower-income).

I guess that perception is all that matters. Who needs facts?

 

[Politesse]

I don't doubt any of the above statistics. I do finally have $400 dollars for emergencies after 8 years of post-collegiate career building, but I had to step over a lot of bodies and exploit some personal connections to get my foot in the door, and most of my graduating class was less lucky. I only know of five members of my master's cohort who have good jobs in their intended field, and the wreckage looks even worse for those who walked the baccalaureate stage with me. Of my friend group at that level, to my knowledge I'm one of just two who achieved the middle class, and the other had to retrain in another field before it worked out. Of those of us who have met any success maybe about half work for the government in some capacity - a class of workers specifically and routinely targeted for insult and abuse by the GOP and rightwing media.

 

[Half-Life]

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

That's not a Trump problem. That's a "you" problem. I don't mean you as in the OP. I mean "you" as in "the people who work those jobs."

Get educated, learn a skill, and you can move on to the booming economy with better pay! Don't blame Trump for the laziness of some people.

 

[BH]

But what happens if everyone does as you say and gets skilled in those jobs and the wages 1 go down because lots of folks can do them now and 2. There arent enough positions to go around for everyone to have one.

All this talk about economics is simply vanity. There will never be enough of everything for everyone to have it.

 

[Half-Life]

But what happens if everyone does as you say and gets skilled in those jobs and the wages 1 go down because lots of folks can do them now and 2. There arent enough positions to go around for everyone to have one.

All this talk about economics is simply vanity. There will never be enough of everything for everyone to have it.

Ideally, we would keep teenagers in the menial jobs like fast food and retail. Any adult working those jobs is either mentally handicapped or lazy. No other reason for an adult over the age of 29 to be working menial jobs. If you hit 30 and are not mentally handicapped but working a menial minimum wage job, you failed at life and life won't get any better. You'll have to work until the day you die.

As I said before, I used to know a 40 year old working cashier at McDonald's and he would smoke a joint out back during his break and always complain that life is unfair and he needs more money.

 

[Metaphor]

But what happens if everyone does as you say and gets skilled in those jobs and the wages 1 go down because lots of folks can do them now and 2. There arent enough positions to go around for everyone to have one.

All this talk about economics is simply vanity. There will never be enough of everything for everyone to have it.

There isn't enough of "everything" because we don't live in a post-scarcity society.

But that doesn't mean standards of living can't keep rising for the foreseeable future. You live better than royalty did 100 years ago and almost everybody in the developed world does.

 

[Derec]

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

The low skilled jobs aren't meant for people who raise families. People should be developing skills as they move through life, which should take care of the last sentence too.

Trump keeps shouting that the economy is great, when in fact, GDP is pretty much the same as it's been when Obama was president.

That's not true.

It doesn't make senses to see so many people in dire need of financial help and wage increases, yet Trump is still very popular among his low class base.

It does make some sense. For one, the messaging. Over the last couple of decades, Democratic Party has embraced identity politics, talking about white privilege, wanting more and more mass migration, attacking police for shooting criminals and so on.

If you are an underemployed former steel worker from the Midwest, and politicians keep harping how you have "cis-gendered white male privilege" you are likely to support a politician who doesn't.

I read yesterday that 40% of Americans still don't have 400 bucks for an emergency. I personally know several people who are in that situation, but only one is a Trump supporter.

Maybe all their money is in stocks and investments.
Seriously though, if you have a retirement plan such as IRA or 401k, you ARE invested in the stock market most likely. But you can't touch those funds without incurring tax penalties until a certain age, and so you may be short on liquid assets a lot of the time. Same goes for having a house and a mortgage. You may have a healthy amount of equity in the house, but it's not exactly liquid.

 

[Derec]

As I said before, I used to know a 40 year old working cashier at McDonald's and he would smoke a joint out back during his break and always complain that life is unfair and he needs more money.

Cutting down on his weed habit might help him save some money too.

For those who partake: how much does a joint worth of weed go for these days? How much even fits in a typical joint or blunt? Half a gram? A quarter gram? I know weed is loose and doesn't weigh much per unit volume.

 

[ZiprHead]

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

That's not a Trump problem. That's a "you" problem. I don't mean you as in the OP. I mean "you" as in "the people who work those jobs."

Get educated, learn a skill, and you can move on to the booming economy with better pay! Don't blame Trump for the laziness of some people.

So your saying those jobs are not a necessary part of society and no one needs to do them?

 

[Half-Life]

As I said before, I used to know a 40 year old working cashier at McDonald's and he would smoke a joint out back during his break and always complain that life is unfair and he needs more money.

Cutting down on his weed habit might help him save some money too.

For those who partake: how much does a joint worth of weed go for these days? How much even fits in a typical joint or blunt? Half a gram? A quarter gram? I know weed is loose and doesn't weigh much per unit volume.

This was back in 2005, so this guy must be 54 now.

Anyway, I used to smoke back then but I was in the phase of quitting. He would let me take a hit or 2 from his joint. But, I remember he paid $30 for 3.5 grams. Once you have it, you can put however much you want into a joint. You can put all 3.5 in it or you can put 0.5 in it.

That was a fun job I had for about 6 months before moving on. But, I would always try to steer the guy to go to learn a skill since he was still living with his parents. He would always say no.

 

[ZiprHead]

As I said before, I used to know a 40 year old working cashier at McDonald's and he would smoke a joint out back during his break and always complain that life is unfair and he needs more money.

Cutting down on his weed habit might help him save some money too.

For those who partake: how much does a joint worth of weed go for these days? How much even fits in a typical joint or blunt? Half a gram? A quarter gram? I know weed is loose and doesn't weigh much per unit volume.

This was back in 2005, so this guy must be 54 now.

Anyway, I used to smoke back then but I was in the phase of quitting. He would let me take a hit or 2 from his joint. But, I remember he paid $30 for 3.5 grams. Once you have it, you can put however much you want into a joint. You can put all 3.5 in it or you can put 0.5 in it.

That was a fun job I had for about 6 months before moving on. But, I would always try to steer the guy to go to learn a skill since he was still living with his parents. He would always say no.

Cool story, bro.

 

[DBT]

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

That's not a Trump problem. That's a "you" problem. I don't mean you as in the OP. I mean "you" as in "the people who work those jobs."

Get educated, learn a skill, and you can move on to the booming economy with better pay! Don't blame Trump for the laziness of some people.

So there are plenty of highly payed jobs just waiting for lazy people to get educated and seize the opportunity? Enough well paid jobs to accommodate the whole working population?

 

[marc]

Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.

That's not a Trump problem. That's a "you" problem. I don't mean you as in the OP. I mean "you" as in "the people who work those jobs."

Get educated, learn a skill, and you can move on to the booming economy with better pay! Don't blame Trump for the laziness of some people.

So there are plenty of highly payed jobs just waiting for lazy people to get educated and seize the opportunity? Enough well paid jobs to accommodate the whole working population?

And that education is free of course, otherwise how could they afford to get the education to get a job that pays a living wage, right?

 

[funinspace]

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/12/11/most-americans-say-the-current-economy-is-helping-the-rich-hurting-the-poor-and-middle-class/


Sure, there are lots of jobs available, but the less skilled jobs don't offer enough money to pay the bills without extra help from either social programs or their families. And, there aren't enough people available who have the skills to fill the vacancies for the higher paying jobs.



Trump keeps shouting that the economy is great, when in fact, GDP is pretty much the same as it's been when Obama was president.

And the below charts don't factor in health care costs, or college education, or home prices, which have far out stripped inflation for decades. It is sad as when we as a people can't even agree on what are facts, it is impossible to have a rational discussion of causation...

I read yesterday that 40% of Americans still don't have 400 bucks for an emergency. I personally know several people who are in that situation, but only one is a Trump supporter.

We were never in that boat, and I am now semi-retired at 56. We have family help along the way, and are doing the same, so our son won't be stuck in Trumworld.

And, how did our perceptions of the economy become so partisan? Do facts not matter at all anymore?

There are differences across parties, however, with Democrats much more likely than Republicans to say current economic conditions are hurting the middle class (72% vs. 41%) and the poor (83% vs. 41%). There are also differences within parties. Republicans are particularly divided by income when it comes to views of which groups the economy is hurting. For example, about half of lower-income Republicans (49%) say the economy is hurting the middle class, compared with smaller shares of middle-income (39%) and upper-income Republicans (33%). Majorities of Democrats across all income groups say the economy is not working for the middle class (77% of higher-income vs. 79% of middle-income vs. 61% of lower-income).

I guess that perception is all that matters. Who needs facts?

Perception based on who (R or D) is in the white house is pretty common and old, but probably has gotten worse. I have an in-law that was bitching to my wife back around 2012 about just how bad the stock markets were doing under "that black president". This is from an idiot in the SW who has no background in growing up to give rise to such racially stupid statements.

 

[southernhybrid]

I get the impression based on some posts, that some of you have never known any poor people. There are a lot of people who aren't capable of going to college, either due to finances or lack of intellectual ability. I worked with very low paid workers for the last 18 years of my nursing career. The job required giving care to frail, elderly adults who were often confused and sometimes combative. Most of these workers were very compassionate and most of them did a good job. These jobs are vitally important jobs. Is it fair to pay someone 8 dollars an hour for such an important job? And, if you don' think these jobs are important, ask yourself how you would like to be treated, if you were 85 years old and disabled? There is now a growing shortage of people willing to do these jobs. While they don't require a high level of formal education, they do require certain personality traits and a willingness to do a very difficult job that most people would refuse to do. There are a lot of low paying jobs like that.

The minimum wage hasn't been increased since 2009 and there are still workers making 7.25 or slightly more per hour. That's wrong, imo.

It's ignorant to make the claim that all people have to do is go to college and learn a skill. College costs money, and there are a lot of people who are not intellectually skilled enough to study the subjects that are most needed. Not everyone is capable of becoming a computer programmer, or a nurse, for example, to name two areas where more people are needed. Plus, as has already been mentioned, if all of us had degrees in STEM or healthcare, there would too many with those degrees and not enough to work in restaurants, or the lower skilled health care jobs for example.

Regardless, the economy is not nearly as great as the Republicans who claim that it is. And, poor people usually don't have 401K. If they do, their contributions are very small. Get to know some very hard working poor people who struggle to survive before you make assumptions about them.

 

[BH]

If everyone went to college,university, or trade school and learned a skill, if everyone saved everything they earned except for bare necessities, if no one ever smoked dope or shot dope, if no one got pregnant too young, yadda yadda, no one made any mistakes at all how are you going to give good paying jobs with benefits and retirement?

 

[southernhybrid]

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/trump-claims-economy-best-ever-11-facts-tell-different-story/?agreed=1

There has been a great deal of political and media attention paid to the rate of economic growth under the Trump administration during 2017 and 2018. President Trump has often called the results under his administration unprecedented. His statements are unfounded: while wage growth has been strong, most other measures of economic growth under the current administration are less impressive than they were during the tail end of the previous administration, Barack Obama’s second term.

As Election Day nears, we’ve dug into the last four years, spanning the end and the beginning of two different sets of executive leadership, and now let the facts speak for themselves. By comparing the rate of growth of key economic variables in the last years of the Barack Obama administration to the record thus far in the Trump administration, we present a report card on results under the two presidents.

1. GDP Growth Was Higher on Average under Obama in 2014 and 2015 Than Compared to Trump in 2017 and 2018

I had mentioned that GDP growth was similar under the two presidents, not that everything was better under Obama. But, people seem to have very short memories. They forget that Obama inherited one of the worst recessions in the history of the US. The GDP was -2.6 when he took office but two years later it was around 2.5 or 2.6. The point is that Trump constantly brags about how great the economy is since he took office. He inherited a health economy. He gave tax breaks to corporations and the most wealthy among us. He did almost nothing to help the rest of the country, but his constant lies have given some the impression that he has created the best economy ever.

Read the charts in my link and you will see how Obama's economy was more impressive than Trump's when you consider percentages and where each administration started out. Of course, no president is totally responsible for the economy, but the perception is that they are the ones who impact the economy.

My point in the OP is that the economy isn't nearly as great as Trump claims and a lot of people are beginning to realize this.

 

[RVonse]

My point in the OP is that the economy isn't nearly as great as Trump claims and a lot of people are beginning to realize this.

Even most Trump supporters realize how crappy the economy is but they are still very loyal followers because:

1. They know the alternative would be much worse. Even poor people know deep down that real wealth does not magically spring from the government. The private part of our economy has to be rebuilt.

2. It takes time for Tump policy to materialize. The US did not give all of its high value supply chains to China over night. It took Clinton era policies like WTO and NAFTA many years and the fix will not be over night.

3. Trump is doing something rather than nothing. Yes, he may fail but at least there is some kind of effort taking place. Had a Democrat like Hillary been elected POTUS, there would be absolutely no trade talk with China at this point. She would be echoing Obama that "the horses were let out" so we can do nothing now except sit on our ass.

Trump may not succeed. But at least there is effort taking place. And that beats the hell out of Obama/Clinton style nothing at all.

4. There is nothing wrong with making America great again if you live here. Its not selfish to want something better with your life.

 

[bleubird]

I am doing better,only because I get SS every month.But, I still have to work to build my savings for when I can not work.

 

[KeepTalking]

My point in the OP is that the economy isn't nearly as great as Trump claims and a lot of people are beginning to realize this.

Even most Trump supporters realize how crappy the economy is but they are still very loyal followers because:

1. They know the alternative would be much worse.

They can't possibly know this. They have bought a lie from the Republicans that they now feel invested in, but a hypothetical is not a fact.

Even poor people know deep down that real wealth does not magically spring from the government.

Democrats are not saying that the government will make poor people wealthy, they are only saying that we can make being poor a bit more bearable.

The private part of our economy has to be rebuilt.

The above makes no sense. We have a capitalist economy, which means the private part of our economy IS our economy.

2. It takes time for Tump policy to materialize.

Well, this far in, Trump certainly owns it. How do you think those US Steel workers in Detroit enjoying the holidays this year?

The US did not give all of its high value supply chains to China over night. It took Clinton era policies like WTO and NAFTA many years and the fix will not be over night.

Please show how the WTO and NAFTA caused the US to give its high value supply chains to China over any length of time.

3. Trump is doing something rather than nothing.

That much is not in dispute. The problem seems to be that the things he is doing are exactly the wrong things.

Yes, he may fail but at least there is some kind of effort taking place. Had a Democrat like Hillary been elected POTUS, there would be absolutely no trade talk with China at this point.

If it were not for Trump, it would be much less of an issue, as we would still be in the TPP, which dealt with Chinese trade imbalances by reducing some of Pacific trade partners dependence on China.

Trump may not succeed. But at least there is effort taking place. And that beats the hell out of Obama/Clinton style nothing at all.

That is 100% bullshit. If Obama had done nothing at all, Trump would not have spent the first 3 years of his presidency trying to undo everything Obama did.

4. There is nothing wrong with making America great again if you live here. Its not selfish to want something better with your life.

The problem is the "again" part. It harkens back to a time when faggots, negroes, and women knew their place, and that time was not great for any of those people who lived here at the time. It wasn't even "great" for most of the white males in the country, we just have a lot of people looking back at it with rose colored glasses.