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Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

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Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

We are ignoring the only deity that can and does speak to us. Nature, via our deteriorating eco system.

Instead, we listen to the promises of the religious liars who promote a supernatural savior entity, --- instead of having us move on our own and carry our crosses the way Jesus tells us to do.

To save the Earth, we need to ignore, --- better still, --- shed supernatural beliefs, --- and start believing in and sanctifying our physical reality Nature, and the Earth that sustains us.

Jesus said that at some point in time, we would elect a new god.

I see this as a good time for that, as we are a part of a major global extinction event that will change us, if not end us.

Perhaps it will make us care more about each other if we are voting with or against each other for a new savior.

Holy is a title that one gives to that which has earned it.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end to all life.

Scriptures have God creating souls for the worst possible end on the wide road to hell, as compared to the small path to heaven.

I vote for nature. I can hear her, and she is nicer.

What/who do you hear?

Regards
DL
 

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Perhaps.

I would prefer us revering nature instead of the genocidal, homophobic and misogynous gods religions somehow see as good.

A natural god is for the bright minds.

A supernatural god is for the dimmer minds.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL
 

steve_bank

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Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

The universe is holy therefore I feel holy and special. Same as god is holy, I believe in god, therefore I am and feel holy. Worship of nature worship of Yahweh six of one half a dozen the other.

Relgious belief of any kind gibe the believers a relgiious experience, biologically based in feel good endorphins in the brain.

The first time I drove cross country was in 1979. I was in the middle of Montana on a clear moonless night far away from light pollution. Montana is called Big Sky Country. Stars were vivid and I could see the Milky Way. It was a 'religious' experience to be sure.

In the 90s I liastened to a neuro scientists talk about his experiments. He ran brain scans on relgiius peole while they prayed and cntemplated god. He found it lit up a particualr area of the brain.

Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group. He found that when they contemplated science and the cosmos, they lit up the same area in the brain.

A possible conclusion, the experience of wonder and 'holiness' is not specific to religion, all human experience is common with different names.

If a magic crystal hanging in your home gives your home a feeling of holiness then good for you. If citeplating unverse as a holy god gives you a good feeling, good for you.

Whatever 'it' is, it is all in your head and chemistry. Physicals reality is what it is however you frame it. Walk alone through places in Africa and a lion may eat you or an elephant may trample you to e death. If you are deprived of air, food, and water you die. If you step off a high building you die or get injured.

To the secular free thinkr I am, nothing is worth worship. As much as possible I reject all -isms and -ologies political, philosophical, and religious. Creating an image to worship invariably leads to abuse.
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

The universe is holy therefore I feel holy and special. Same as god is holy, I believe in god, therefore I am and feel holy. Worship of nature worship of Yahweh six of one half a dozen the other.

Relgious belief of any kind gibe the believers a relgiious experience, biologically based in feel good endorphins in the brain.

The first time I drove cross country was in 1979. I was in the middle of Montana on a clear moonless night far away from light pollution. Montana is called Big Sky Country. Stars were vivid and I could see the Milky Way. It was a 'religious' experience to be sure.

In the 90s I liastened to a neuro scientists talk about his experiments. He ran brain scans on relgiius peole while they prayed and cntemplated god. He found it lit up a particualr area of the brain.

Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group. He found that when they contemplated science and the cosmos, they lit up the same area in the brain.

A possible conclusion, the experience of wonder and 'holiness' is not specific to religion, all human experience is common with different names.

If a magic crystal hanging in your home gives your home a feeling of holiness then good for you. If citeplating unverse as a holy god gives you a good feeling, good for you.

Whatever 'it' is, it is all in your head and chemistry. Physicals reality is what it is however you frame it. Walk alone through places in Africa and a lion may eat you or an elephant may trample you to e death. If you are deprived of air, food, and water you die. If you step off a high building you die or get injured.

To the secular free thinkr I am, nothing is worth worship. As much as possible I reject all -isms and -ologies political, philosophical, and religious. Creating an image to worship invariably leads to abuse.

Like it or not, whatever ideology or combination of thinking systems you cherry pick from, be they political, philosophical or religious, you end with an ism.

That is why Gnostic Christians define god as the best rules and laws to live by, and why we have condemned Yahweh to hell.

Regards
DL
 

steve_bank

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Practically speaking yes.

Not the same as inventing self serving isms on a whim or living according to a narrow ideology. Witness conservative Abrahamic faiths and American politics. To get elected with a few exceptions once has to at least outwardly conform to a religion or ideology.

I believe sconce and its methodologies are the best way to understand reality. Some call it scientism as opposed to theology. All that exists is by definition natural whether or not we can detect it or explain it, Naturalism and Freethought.

Regardless of what one worships, the psycho physical experience of the worshipper is the same. Religious conflict arises when different worshippers claim their religious experience is better or exclusive, and reduces worship to a narrow definition of the best or only legitimate worship.

Categories and Pidgeon holes can not be eliminated, we can not function without them. However we can try to rise above the limitations of categories and pigeonholing and not have our thinking limited by them.

Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

A more enjoyable and traditional form of worship, a Japanese penis fertility festival. A parade with a giant penis.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...kanamara-matsuri-festival-steel-phallus-penis
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Practically speaking yes.


Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

]

Thanks for your first.

To your last.

You describe what I call realism. Another ism.

Why should you,-------------- did I use the word worship?

I do not believe in worship either.

I did say we should name the earth as holy and venerate it, so as to protect it.

The Earth needs our help against ourselves, and we destroy ourselves if we do not heed her needs on saving what gives us life.

Now if worship turn to ethical actions for the masses, even I will waste my time and worship.

Regards
DL


.
 

Elixir

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I agree that science is the most effective tool humans have for converging on the truth. One can be in awe of reality, and know that neither science nor any other way of learning will ever give us more than a tiny glimpse of all there is, without descending into stupified worship or indulging in “isms”. But it is tempting, since “nature” is so incredible.
Just took this picture, looking east after the sun had set behind the mountains to the west.

746D5B0F-2F94-4167-B298-27C83C936A46.jpeg
 

Learner

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Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

I agree in part to some of the above you've highlighted. Some beliefs having the concept 'the universe is love,' although thats not a Christian concept, as you may know. The biblical concept is, God is Love, and the bit that agrees with you is 'the universe is harsh' bit. (Death came into the world from sin etc..etc..)

Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.. Of course I understand, you mean preferably a universe with the specifications of the heavenly ... the highest possible comfort level. Like a paradise in Heaven maybe?
 

steve_bank

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Practically speaking yes.


Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

]

Thanks for your first.

To your last.

You describe what I call realism. Another ism.

Why should you,-------------- did I use the word worship?

I do not believe in worship either.

I did say we should name the earth as holy and venerate it, so as to protect it.

The Earth needs our help against ourselves, and we destroy ourselves if we do not heed her needs on saving what gives us life.

Now if worship turn to ethical actions for the masses, even I will waste my time and worship.

Regards
DL


.

That is very sensible. That the Earth was given to humans by god to consume is something I have heard from Christians.

I believe in part Genesis is why we have so hard a time with the environment, humans have a god given biblical superiority. I once heard a Christian say when thearth is consumed god will transport the faithful to a new planet.
 

steve_bank

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Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

I agree in part to some of the above you've highlighted. Some beliefs having the concept 'the universe is love,' although thats not a Christian concept, as you may know. The biblical concept is, God is Love, and the bit that agrees with you is 'the universe is harsh' bit. (Death came into the world from sin etc..etc..)

Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.. Of course I understand, you mean preferably a universe with the specifications of the heavenly ... the highest possible comfort level. Like a paradise in Heaven maybe?

Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.
 

Learner

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Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God (anti-christ) philosophies for centuries ;)

But yes, there are some issues with some of the more modern translations that Christians are finding and warning against.

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say continuation to the Torah just as it is for Jews is a continuation to the ancient Hebrew Israelites like Moses, who wasn't a Jew etc.
 

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Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God and satanic philosophy interpretations for centuries ;)


The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say...[snipped out of necessity, to save time - me]

That's why I pu...er...I mean why God put Spinoza in the world, Learner, because God is Nature, and Nature is God. Baruch (now there was a good kid...quiet, coulda used a few pounds, but good. I asked him t...I mean, God asked him to throw in a few jokes, lighten things up some. But would he? Of course not, but that's beside the point...) wrote that God was, ahem...is a being of infinite attributes, which only means that all those things Steve said about me is tote-illy accurate.

I am mean, and nasty, and evil, and rotten, and horrible, and frightening, everything, you name it. But I'm also everything else you want to call me: Loving, merciful, all-knowing, a father, a mother (what's the look? I can't be a mother? I have a right to be a woman if I want to be. It's my right as a...oh skip it), a son, a ghost, a carpenter, a kid in the desert, an angel, an alien, a tyrant, a dictator, blind, stupid, but also very smart, mind you. I've got a nooo-dle like a camel! Or was it an elephant. I never forget anything. But sometimes I do? What can you do? What can anyone do? Just be thankful you got lucky. Most things? not so much. So you're not perfect? I'm perfect, but then again I'm not, see? See how it woiks? Looks like chaos, but that's just how it looks. Appearances can be deceiving. You remember Rock Hudson? Good kid. But anyway...it's complex, but it's siiiii-mple. Now c'mere, son, do you like films? You like to critique? Well I got two tickets to the...

[curtain]
 

Learner

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Cheers WAB, You have got me very interested in getting to know much about Spinoza. Thankfully I have a little time to myself woohoo!

(Most if not all of the above in your naughty list is forgivable if in remorse - do the best you can :) )

Let the film start ...
 

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If god is nature then humans are god despite the fact that very many humans unintelligently speak and act as if they are not natural. This of course is why they act self destructively.
 

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.
 

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I agree that science is the most effective tool humans have for converging on the truth. One can be in awe of reality, and know that neither science nor any other way of learning will ever give us more than a tiny glimpse of all there is, without descending into stupified worship or indulging in “isms”. But it is tempting, since “nature” is so incredible.

Nature hold all the answers.

I do not mind the Laïcité and secularism that the world seems to be heading for.

I agree, and in fact hope, that no issue of study ever gets to it's end, even as we know a lot more of most things than we ever did.

Regards
DL
 

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[

That is very sensible. That the Earth was given to humans by god to consume is something I have heard from Christians.

I believe in part Genesis is why we have so hard a time with the environment, humans have a god given biblical superiority. I once heard a Christian say when thearth is consumed god will transport the faithful to a new planet.

Thanks.

I wish the Faithfull would be transported.

Good riddance to piss poor morals.

I do not mind the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom, but those God religions are quite satanic.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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[

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

Not to get too deeply into this, but if you read the bible and see the naturalistic god I do, god is indeed love.

So are you and I at our core, and that is why man is god.

You are an evolving creature and default to the good and not the evils of evolution.

We all default to good/cooperation and not competition, which produces the small bit of evil in our overall good evolution.

Nature is fantastic indeed.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God (anti-christ) philosophies for centuries ;)

We can be interpreted that way, but we are only anti-Christ and Jesus to the Christian version.

Our version embraces the Jesus mind and seek to elevate ourselves to a Christ consciousness.

I try hard, but even my apotheosis could only do so much with my character and temperament.



The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

I can agree here, but only to those who read that god created all good and evil for his pleasure, and ignore the evil part.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

Indeed, but only if you apply moral thinking to it.

Fact is, Jesus even asking someone to put their burden on a scapegoat, would be a sin.

Christians have to sin to be saved.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say continuation to the Torah just as it is for Jews is a continuation to the ancient Hebrew Israelites like Moses, who wasn't a Jew etc.

I do not agree.

Most Jews are agnostic or atheist and the oral traditions are what guide them and they put man above god.

I could agree in the sense that the esoteric ecumenist sects of Judaism, that put man above god, along with Chrestians, created what we now see as Gnostic Christianity. Not Christianity.

Regards
DL
 

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If god is nature then humans are god despite the fact that very many humans unintelligently speak and act as if they are not natural. This of course is why they act self destructively.

That may be because we are dualistic thinkers and our love of War, as the epitome of the drama we all love and crave, has a flip side of death wish.

We are, at our core, engines that consume bread and circuses, as Socrates indicated we are.

Regards
DL
 

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.

Nature is not described the same way as our vile gods, true, but if we do not circle around the Earth, en masse, including the religious, we may doom humanity.

Circling around non-earthly gods has not done us any good.

In fact, I see more harm than good in supernatural belief.

Regards
DL
 
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Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

We are ignoring the only deity that can and does speak to us. Nature, via our deteriorating eco system.

Instead, we listen to the promises of the religious liars who promote a supernatural savior entity, --- instead of having us move on our own and carry our crosses the way Jesus tells us to do.

To save the Earth, we need to ignore, --- better still, --- shed supernatural beliefs, --- and start believing in and sanctifying our physical reality Nature, and the Earth that sustains us.

Jesus said that at some point in time, we would elect a new god.

I see this as a good time for that, as we are a part of a major global extinction event that will change us, if not end us.

Perhaps it will make us care more about each other if we are voting with or against each other for a new savior.

Holy is a title that one gives to that which has earned it.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end to all life.

Scriptures have God creating souls for the worst possible end on the wide road to hell, as compared to the small path to heaven.

I vote for nature. I can hear her, and she is nicer.

What/who do you hear?

Regards
DL

Nature Is a Crime Against Humanity

You're treating Nature as supernatural, which is a contradiction. Man, with his intelligence, is not designed to fit in with nature but must conquer it. Nature's mindless tendency towards us is to create our extinction. Nature is the enemy of man, who must fight it, subjugate it, and transform it. Your antipathy towards religion has made you go off into the wild blue yonder, deifying Nature and make us passively submit to its diabolical forces of mass destruction. Killer viruses thrive in natural air, which is the most toxic of all atmospheres.
 
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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.

Godzillas

When God is dead, many lost, confused, and manipulated humans will follow far worse gods to fill the vacuum. Environmentalism and Statism are replacement theologies.
 

steve_bank

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.

Godzillas

When God is dead, many lost, confused, and manipulated humans will follow far worse gods to fill the vacuum. Environmentalism and Statism are replacement theologies.

A cross between Ayn Rand and Shaun Hannity?

The new god is the worship of gross consumption and self indulgence. All that matters is profit to the point of self destruction.

Environmentalism? Free Market Capital -ISM. I was an engineer and party to the rise of modern technology, I know it well. The profit incentive.

Equating environmentalism to Stalinism and communism is an old conservative fall back position, worthy of FOX News. When in doubt and unable to make a coheret objection to something call it communism.
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

We are ignoring the only deity that can and does speak to us. Nature, via our deteriorating eco system.

Instead, we listen to the promises of the religious liars who promote a supernatural savior entity, --- instead of having us move on our own and carry our crosses the way Jesus tells us to do.

To save the Earth, we need to ignore, --- better still, --- shed supernatural beliefs, --- and start believing in and sanctifying our physical reality Nature, and the Earth that sustains us.

Jesus said that at some point in time, we would elect a new god.

I see this as a good time for that, as we are a part of a major global extinction event that will change us, if not end us.

Perhaps it will make us care more about each other if we are voting with or against each other for a new savior.

Holy is a title that one gives to that which has earned it.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end to all life.

Scriptures have God creating souls for the worst possible end on the wide road to hell, as compared to the small path to heaven.

I vote for nature. I can hear her, and she is nicer.

What/who do you hear?

Regards
DL

Nature Is a Crime Against Humanity

You're treating Nature as supernatural, which is a contradiction. Man, with his intelligence, is not designed to fit in with nature but must conquer it. Nature's mindless tendency towards us is to create our extinction. Nature is the enemy of man, who must fight it, subjugate it, and transform it. Your antipathy towards religion has made you go off into the wild blue yonder, deifying Nature and make us passively submit to its diabolical forces of mass destruction. Killer viruses thrive in natural air, which is the most toxic of all atmospheres.

We have done a lot of what you suggest, and many fear for our extinction.

We do have many things that kill us, but not enough, given how our numbers are making the Earth a banana republic with only us as the main species.

The most vulnerable position we can put ourselves in.

To conquer nature fully is to murder ourselves.

Use nature well and she pays back.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.

Godzillas

When God is dead, many lost, confused, and manipulated humans will follow far worse gods to fill the vacuum. Environmentalism and Statism are replacement theologies.

Indeed, but a lot better than the vile and immoral mainstream god religions.

Regards
DL
 

steve_bank

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.
 
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Godzillas

When God is dead, many lost, confused, and manipulated humans will follow far worse gods to fill the vacuum. Environmentalism and Statism are replacement theologies.

A cross between Ayn Rand and Shaun Hannity?

The new god is the worship of gross consumption and self indulgence. All that matters is profit to the point of self destruction.

Environmentalism? Free Market Capital -ISM. I was an engineer and party to the rise of modern technology, I know it well. The profit incentive.

No Drive in the Chauffeured

HeirHeads, who never earned anything but were given everything through Daddy's Money, despise people who have to earn everything, who cherish more the more they get by themselves.
 

steve_bank

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Godzillas

When God is dead, many lost, confused, and manipulated humans will follow far worse gods to fill the vacuum. Environmentalism and Statism are replacement theologies.

A cross between Ayn Rand and Shaun Hannity?

The new god is the worship of gross consumption and self indulgence. All that matters is profit to the point of self destruction.

Environmentalism? Free Market Capital -ISM. I was an engineer and party to the rise of modern technology, I know it well. The profit incentive.

No Drive in the Chauffeured

HeirHeads, who never earned anything but were given everything through Daddy's Money, despise people who have to earn everything, who cherish more the more they get by themselves.

The ignore list is a wondaful feature. You are posting on the wrong forum, try politics. Do you have a point on relgion?
 

steve_bank

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

Adding

Gnostic has all the ear marks of an Evangelical ranter. The evil ones who do not see things my way.
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

No.

I seek Christ in me.

You are incorrect as we proclaim that we are all lights and are able to make our way without a genocidal prick of a god to guide us into homophobia and misogyny.

Women and gays are made in God's image.

Men know this. The lesser men do not.



Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

Adding

Gnostic has all the ear marks of an Evangelical ranter. The evil ones who do not see things my way.

Guilty.

I am fanatical against evil.

I am also correct in all moral matters.

Regards
DL
 

atrib

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Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.

Everything runs down. Whether it is life forms, stars, galaxies, and black holes created by nature, or machines created by humans - everything eventually runs down. Humans run down and die in 50 to 100 years, stars live for millions (super-giants) to hundreds of billions (red dwarfs) of years, while some structures like back holes last for trillions of trillions of years. But they all eventually wither away to nothing.

Your second point is that nature appears to be a machine, and I think it is wrong to characterize it that way. The reality we observe is driven by the interaction of matter and energy following apparently simple patterns which we call the laws of nature. Our universe is very young, a mere 13.8 billion years old, and it started from a state of low entropy and very small inhomogeneities that resulted in the existence of matter/energy gradients across spacetime. It is the existence of these gradients that make the universe behave the way it does today, but these gradients will be equalized over time, and in about 10^150 years or so these gradients will cease to exist. And time will cease to exist along with it.
 

ideologyhunter

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Ohhhh, yeah. And for everyone who aspires to live (or rent) in heaven, consider the setting: 1500 square miles, walls of jasper, streets and buildings of pure gold. A safe, gated community, you think? Just wait 'til the quarks, leptons, and bosons decide to go their separate ways. You better hope Yahweh has a good chemistry set.
 

atrib

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

Adding

Gnostic has all the ear marks of an Evangelical ranter. The evil ones who do not see things my way.

Yes. He apparently wants only to proselytize, and is unwilling to listen to differing opinions. He also likes to make new definitions for things that already have definitions - like redefining nature to be god, when in reality they refer to different things.
 

steve_bank

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

Adding

Gnostic has all the ear marks of an Evangelical ranter. The evil ones who do not see things my way.

Guilty.

I am fanatical against evil.

I am also correct in all moral matters.

Regards
DL

Didn't Jesus say something about seeing the mote in ones own eyes, or casting the first stone? You are a Christian are you not?
 

steve_bank

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

No.

I seek Christ in me.

You are incorrect as we proclaim that we are all lights and are able to make our way without a genocidal prick of a god to guide us into homophobia and misogyny.

Women and gays are made in God's image.

Men know this. The lesser men do not.



Regards
DL

As I said, you get off on playing Jesus. Just like those evil mainstream Christians do.

All I ask of anyone is practice what you preach.
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

Adding

Gnostic has all the ear marks of an Evangelical ranter. The evil ones who do not see things my way.

Yes. He apparently wants only to proselytize, and is unwilling to listen to differing opinions. He also likes to make new definitions for things that already have definitions - like redefining nature to be god, when in reality they refer to different things.

Eh, really.

Earth, in reality, is our creator and sustainer.

God's first attributes are creator and sustainer.

Defining god as supernatural is stupid, given the evidence of nature filling the first two main descriptions.

You win this one though.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Guilty.

I am fanatical against evil.

I am also correct in all moral matters.

Regards
DL

Didn't Jesus say something about seeing the mote in ones own eyes, or casting the first stone? You are a Christian are you not?

I am Catholic born, Protestant led to thinking and interest, skeptic by nature and like Christianity and all Abrahamic cults, follow a naturalistic religion. Yahweh and Nature are interchangeable in this myth.

When I learned enough, I suffered my apotheosis and chose Gnostic Christianity as the best way to continue with my overall agenda of trying to lose moral arguments.

In Gnostic Christian traditions, I will never die/lose an argument.

A shame not to have that pleasure.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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[

Didn't Jesus say something about seeing the mote in ones own eyes, or casting the first stone? You are a Christian are you not?

Do you know what Jesus wrote in the sand and why that phrase was used.

I do.

The victim was to cast the first stone and he was not there.

No real charge could be laid and thus there was no sinner to stone.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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I suppose 2000 years ago Gnostic wolud be proclaiming 'I am the light and the way'....

He is playing the role of a latter day Jesus.

No.

I seek Christ in me.

You are incorrect as we proclaim that we are all lights and are able to make our way without a genocidal prick of a god to guide us into homophobia and misogyny.

Women and gays are made in God's image.

Men know this. The lesser men do not.



Regards
DL

As I said, you get off on playing Jesus. Just like those evil mainstream Christians do.

All I ask of anyone is practice what you preach.

I do, but the stupid do not see it.

Get on issue and off the personal or fuck right off you piece of minute mental garbage.

Regards
DL
 

none

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Women come from a rib in your book of ideas
 

excreationist

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I believe that I'm probably in a simulation and that it would have been created by an intelligent force. I think the outermost world is completely naturalistic though if we're in a simulation we probably wouldn't have knowledge of the naturalistic outer world's details.
 

Learner

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Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.

Everything runs down. Whether it is life forms, stars, galaxies, and black holes created by nature, or machines created by humans - everything eventually runs down. Humans run down and die in 50 to 100 years, stars live for millions (super-giants) to hundreds of billions (red dwarfs) of years, while some structures like back holes last for trillions of trillions of years. But they all eventually wither away to nothing.

No issues with the statement above. Although.. along those lines of thought, why should it mean the universe, which is often magnificently & majestically described often in awe - should we also then say to also mean: "the universe is faulty" in the 'grand scheme of things,' just because from the engineer human perspective, the universe (outside) is harsh to humans?

In the Grand scheme of things, and atheistic terms - humans are insignificant aren't they?

Your second point is that nature appears to be a machine, and I think it is wrong to characterize it that way. The reality we observe is driven by the interaction of matter and energy following apparently simple patterns which we call the laws of nature. Our universe is very young, a mere 13.8 billion years old, and it started from a state of low entropy and very small inhomogeneities that resulted in the existence of matter/energy gradients across spacetime. It is the existence of these gradients that make the universe behave the way it does today, but these gradients will be equalized over time, and in about 10^150 years or so these gradients will cease to exist. And time will cease to exist along with it.

I describe it that way (as have non-religious have too) - because with all those processes throughout space and time or whatever, as you posted above - the universe produces and functions like a 'factory plant and recycling plant.' Currently so far... and from the understanding concluded from scientific observations. The universe keeps doing what it does automatically, producing planets and stars etc...

There's no issue again in my view, when it comes to Entropy, as this also agrees with my theistic pov, that the old things (world or universe), will fade away!
 
Last edited:

steve_bank

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Christians apologetics-Gnostic apologetics....six of one half a dozen the other. Jesus freaks always mold the scant lines in the gospels to fit their own views.

If your slate be clean cast the first stone.

The meek shall inherit the Earth.

One of the few clear alleged statements by Jesus is on fornication. He lumped it with murder. Divorce and remarry and you are a fornicator.


How do Gnostic Christians stand on fornication and divorce?


Funny, I don't see 'fuck' said anywhere in the gospels. Where's the universal love dude? Love your neighbor s yourself?
 

none

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I believe that I'm probably in a simulation and that it would have been created by an intelligent force. I think the outermost world is completely naturalistic though if we're in a simulation we probably wouldn't have knowledge of the naturalistic outer world's details.

Who is the I you are referring to ?
 

atrib

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No issues with the statement above. Although.. along those lines of thought, why should it mean the universe, which is often magnificently & majestically described often in awe - should we also then say to also mean: "the universe is faulty" in the 'grand scheme of things,' just because from the engineer human perspective, the universe (outside) is harsh to humans?

The universe is what it is. The term faulty implies that something, in this case the universe, is unable to perform some function for which it was designed. Since there is no evidence that the universe (a) was designed, and (b) that it serves some purpose, it would be inappropriate to describe the universe as faulty.

However, if someone were to assert that the universe was designed to support life, as creationists do, then it would be reasonable to point out that an overwhelmingly vast majority of the the universe is hostile to the existence of life. Which appears to rebut the creationist claim that the universe was designed to support life.

Context is important.

In the Grand scheme of things, and atheistic terms - humans are insignificant aren't they?

Insignificant to whom? Who came up with this grand scheme that you are talking about?

Since there is no evidence that the universe is sentient, the existence of humans would not appear to be of any significance to the universe. The question is meaningless - it is similar to asking, "what does that rock think about the existence of humans?". The rock cannot think.

If you are asking whether human existence is significant to humans, then the answer would be "DUH!!".

Your second point is that nature appears to be a machine, and I think it is wrong to characterize it that way. The reality we observe is driven by the interaction of matter and energy following apparently simple patterns which we call the laws of nature. Our universe is very young, a mere 13.8 billion years old, and it started from a state of low entropy and very small inhomogeneities that resulted in the existence of matter/energy gradients across spacetime. It is the existence of these gradients that make the universe behave the way it does today, but these gradients will be equalized over time, and in about 10^150 years or so these gradients will cease to exist. And time will cease to exist along with it.

I describe it that way (as have non-religious have too) - because with all those processes throughout space and time or whatever, as you posted above - the universe produces and functions like a 'factory plant and recycling plant.' Currently so far... and from the understanding concluded from scientific observations. The universe keeps doing what it does automatically, producing planets and stars etc...

Just because the universe does something does not mean or even imply that it was designed to do that thing. Here in South Carolina, it rains from time to time. That doesn't mean the weather was designed to produce rain on South Carolina.

There's no issue again in my view, when it comes to Entropy, as this also agrees with my theistic pov, that the old things (world or universe), will fade away!

Really, the Bible talks about entropy, heat death and degradation of energy/matter gradients over a period of 10^150 years? I must have missed it. Which verse is that again?
 

steve_bank

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The Genesis narrative is propably a part of why we have a hard time recognizing we are not special or superior.

Ocean plankton dies and we die.
Ants and worms aerate hte soli.

Back when it was observed that bee populations were deckining due to an unknown pathogen I remember Hannity saying what's the big deal and mocked govt soending money o it. Bees pollinate. Polination goes down plants go down and humans go down.

There is no superiority of humans, only a combination of language, brain, and dexterity from evolution that gets us into trouble. We are no more significant than ants and worms in the grand scheme of things, IOW the ecosystem.

We live within a tiny volume compared to the vast observed universe. Insignificant. We live in a thin shell of brethable atmosphere about 10,000 feet above the surface. That is it.

Perhaps god thought we were a dangerous experiment and placed us in a vacuum to keep us isolated from the rest of the universe.
 
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