Is the US even more sexist than it is racist?

[untermensche]

If a former Senator and Secretary of State is somehow not highly qualified then the whole thing is a delusion.

How does being a sliver spoon petty dictator your whole life make you qualified?

The claim was that she was "one of the most qualified", not "more qualified than Trump".

In terms of understanding how the Federal government works I can't think of many more qualified.

She just does not excite people. She has no emotional appeal.

Unlike Trump who is dripping with sick repulsive emotional appeal to certain types of apes.

 

[Juma]

If a former Senator and Secretary of State is somehow not highly qualified then the whole thing is a delusion.

How does being a sliver spoon petty dictator your whole life make you qualified?

The claim was that she was "one of the most qualified", not "more qualified than Trump".

Then tell us who was more qualified?

 

[BH]

I have to admit I voted for Trump too.

I voted for Sanders in the primary and do not like the fact Hillary and the DNC conspired to make sure he was not the nominee. I understand the arguments that Sanders may have lost the general election to Trump, but you do not offer a choice to the Democratic party members, claim the heads of the party are neutral, and then work to undermine those party members choice. You just do not do such a dishonest thing especially to such a large portion of your party. I think a lot of Sanders supporters stayed home or voted for Trump because of what the DNC and Hillary did in the primary and they deserved the punishment they got.

I also do not like how the media treated Clinton with kid gloves. Yes, there was the email escapade at the end but many journalists came out saying they were instructed to be easier on her than Trump. And what the media reported about Trump being a dick and an ass was greatly exaggerated. Everyone said he totally sucked in his debates and I watch them and thought he held his own very well. Trump telling Hillary he was going to put her in jail needed to be heard by the electorate even if ultimately nothing is done to her and I really liked how he dresses Bill Clinton down on his immoralities from the past and how Hillary didn't do anything to stop him----every woman I know would have divorced his philandering ass and go found someone else as a partner. And in his speeches it is true Trump may not have chosen the best words or phrases at times they were not the horribly insulting mess that the news always tried to make them out to be.

 

[funinspace]

I'm not denying the existence or seriousness of racism in the US, but it seems to me that sexism is even more pervasive.

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

A couple serious problems trying to extrapolate this election to the 2008 election of Obama regarding race verses gender. It is rare when 1 party retains control of the Whitehouse for 3 terms, no matter the situation. In 2008, most everyone knew the economy was tanking, and blaming the big red R on the Whitehouse was a large part of Obama's win. He was new, he was fresh, he was suave. He had little track record to be tarnished by and it worked. He promised to end one of the occupations.

Hillary Clinton is coming on the tail end of 8 years of a big blue D on the Whitehouse. People wanted fairy dust change, much as they wanted fairy dust change in 2008. Personally, I thought Trump was awful enough to make it 12 years of a big blue D, but I was wrong. The economy is better. However, for the bottom 50 percentile, it still isn't all that great of an economy. And somehow Presidents are supposed to magically fix that...

Clinton may be a very good paper qualified candidate, but she most certainly lacks that charisma that draws people. She comes with baggage that is real. The after affects of the Shrubs 2 occupations haunted McCain as he ran, and the mess in Iraq-Syria, and somewhat Libya, haunts Clinton as she was clearly tied to the Obama Administration. WS is content with her, and many people know that. Yeah, the email thing was probably overblown, but it was hardly irrelevant either.

 

[Derec]

The claim was that she was "one of the most qualified", not "more qualified than Trump".

Then tell us who was more qualified?

Just out of people running this election, Kasich, Bush certainly much more experienced and qualified than Hillary.

 

[laughing dog]

Then tell us who was more qualified?

Just out of people running this election, Kasich, Bush certainly much more experienced and qualified than Hillary.

Hillary has bigger balls than either of those two. Other than being governors, neither of those two had more qualifications than HRC. Not that qualifications necessarily make a better POTUS.

 

[EricK]

I'm not denying the existence or seriousness of racism in the US, but it seems to me that sexism is even more pervasive.

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

I guess if you assume that women can be sexist against themselves, then yes. Women voters, almost solely, could have put Hillary in the White House, but for whatever reason, they didn't do it.

I was kind of shocked to hear last night that college educated white women in Florida favored Trump. Other states had surprisingly high percentage of women supporting Trump. 'Splain Lucy.

Sexism generally takes a different form to racism. Whereas most racists believe that some races are superior to others, a lot of sexism is more about the belief that the genders have separate roles to play. And often this is so ingrained that it affects both men and women subconsciously. So a woman displaying what are perceived to be male qualities, is treated and thought of differently to a man who is behaving in the exactly the same way. A classic example is what is described as leadership in men, gets described as bossiness in women.

 

[credoconsolans]

After some thought, I do believe the US is more sexist than racist.

I live in a heavily Hispanic area. When Obama was running, the polling place was crowded. I had to stand in line. I was there almost an hour.

Last night, I went to vote at the same time as I had for the earlier presidential election. The polling place was nearly deserted.

It does not follow from that that US is "more sexist than racist". That would be to reduce Obama to one half of his racial heritage and Hillary to her gender. In fact, Hillary ran a poor campaign and was a deeply flawed candidate with many self-inflicted wounds. Almost any Democratic senator or governor could have wiped the floor with Trump, but no, we had to have Hillary shoved down our throats.

Except she wasn't.

Her campaign was excellent.

Her weakness was that she isn't very good at self-promotion - as she admitted herself.

And she had the misfortune to have as an opponent, a snake oil salesman who is superb at self-promotion to the weak-minded.

 

[RVonse]

It does not follow from that that US is "more sexist than racist". That would be to reduce Obama to one half of his racial heritage and Hillary to her gender. In fact, Hillary ran a poor campaign and was a deeply flawed candidate with many self-inflicted wounds. Almost any Democratic senator or governor could have wiped the floor with Trump, but no, we had to have Hillary shoved down our throats.

Except she wasn't.

The democratic party deliberately favored Hillary over Bernie. That's why Wasserman was forced to resign.

Her campaign was excellent.

The campaign manger should have been shot. Instead of tearing down Trump, she should have been promoting Bernie's new platform every chance she could. Bernie's anti trade platform would have gained a lot of traction with the rust belt.

And she had the misfortune to have as an opponent, a snake oil salesman who is superb at self-promotion to the weak-minded.

She did no better against Obama the election before. She needed to drive home that there would be change. Americans have wanted change even since Obama took office. And they are tired of waiting for it.

 

[Derec]

Except she wasn't.
Her campaign was excellent.

Keep telling yourself that. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of a political campaign
To paraphrase another of Alec Baldwin's signature characters, "you can't close with the voters you're given you can't win shit. You ARE shit. Hit the bricks, Hil, and beat it 'cause you are going OUT."

Her weakness was that she isn't very good at self-promotion - as she admitted herself.

A big part of the campaigning for sure. But that wasn't the only problem. It's the secrecy, the lies, even insignificant ones like snipergate, the lack of judgment, the ridiculously well paid speeches where she told things like how she has one position for the hoi poloi and another one privately or how she dreams of open borders.

And she had the misfortune to have as an opponent, a snake oil salesman who is superb at self-promotion to the weak-minded.

She had the fortune of running against one of the most vulnerable candidate Republicans put up since Goldwater, but without the intellectual credibility. She failed to capitalize on that.

 

[Juma]

The campaign manger should have been shot.

Overreact much?

 

[bilby]

Except she wasn't.

The democratic party deliberately favored Hillary over Bernie. That's why Wasserman was forced to resign.

Her campaign was excellent.

The campaign manger should have been shot. Instead of tearing down Trump, she should have been promoting Bernie's new platform every chance she could. Bernie's anti trade platform would have gained a lot of traction with the rust belt.

And she had the misfortune to have as an opponent, a snake oil salesman who is superb at self-promotion to the weak-minded.

She did no better against Obama the election before. She needed to drive home that there would be change. Americans have wanted change even since Obama took office. And they are tired of waiting for it.

 

[credoconsolans]

Keep telling yourself that. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of a political campaign
To paraphrase another of Alec Baldwin's signature characters, "you can't close with the voters you're given you can't win shit. You ARE shit. Hit the bricks, Hil, and beat it 'cause you are going OUT."

To quote another saying, "You can't cure stupid." That some Americans - as usual - were either too stupid to vote for the qualified candidate or too mired and invested in their own ideology to vote for their best interests, is sadly what is the 'proof' of this election result.

Her weakness was that she isn't very good at self-promotion - as she admitted herself.

A big part of the campaigning for sure. But that wasn't the only problem. It's the secrecy, the lies, even insignificant ones like snipergate, the lack of judgment, the ridiculously well paid speeches where she told things like how she has one position for the hoi poloi and another one privately or how she dreams of open borders.

You're criticizing WHO for lying?

Lack of judgment? Trump insulted women, Hispanics, our military, gay people, handicapped people...But I guess you think that's smart?

Secrecy? Hey, how'd you like the reveal of Trump's tax returns...oh, wait, he never showed them to us and his supporters aren't going to make him

Well paid speeches? Take a closer look at the figure that was bandied around. That was for BOTH her and Bill. Split that in half and divide that by something like 58 speeches. She earned that money. And she was a private citizen at the time. Why are Republicans critical that a former Senator and Secretary of State can make that kind of money on the lecture circuit when they don't even blink when Bush makes the same kind of money doing the same thing?

And good job taking out of context her talking about open borders. All the deplorables did.

And she had the misfortune to have as an opponent, a snake oil salesman who is superb at self-promotion to the weak-minded.

She had the fortune of running against one of the most vulnerable candidate Republicans put up since Goldwater, but without the intellectual credibility. She failed to capitalize on that.

She did. Only his deplorables didn't mind choosing the candidate as stupid as they are.

 

[dismal]

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

Yes, and also let's not forget the treatment of Sarah Palin. So that's two.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

Yes, and also let's not forget the treatment of Sarah Palin. So that's two.

That's Secretary of State Sarah Palin now, thank you very much. Just because she's female doesn't mean it's not rude to ignore her title.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I'm not denying the existence or seriousness of racism in the US, but it seems to me that sexism is even more pervasive.

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

Vote wise Clinton received slightly more votes. The number of electoral votes went to Trump.

 

[Trausti]

I'm not denying the existence or seriousness of racism in the US, but it seems to me that sexism is even more pervasive.

The fact that Obama won two elections, but one of the most qualified white women in the country couldn't win against one of the least qualified white men is just one piece of evidence.

Vote wise Clinton received slightly more votes. The number of electoral votes went to Trump.

And she significantly underperformed with blacks and Latinos, compared to Obama. So there's your sexism and racism.

 

[ronburgundy]

She lost in no small part because Trump appealed to racism (and sexist misogyny). But at the same time the non-stop campaign of hate against Hillary started the moment she revealed she wasn't a passive, timid, make-the-boys cookies while they talk politics kind of first "lady".

So, you can't really parse her loss as being about sexism or racism alone. It was a heavy dose of both combined with other factors, including too many American just being too dangerously stupid to grasp the absolute chasm of difference in every meaningful area between what a Trump vs. Hillary presidency would entail (which as a thread I just started shows, will predictably entail the elimination of science-based policy from the EPA, DOE, NSF, Department of Education, and every other agency that Trump now has power over, which means the GOP corporate lobbyists now have total control of.