Is your boss demanding hand shakes unreasonable?

[DrZoidberg]

Sorry, but I don't see what the big deal is? We have no problem asking smokers to refrain from smoking in certain areas.

I personally don't see religion any different than any other hobby.

But we don't restrict smoking because it's a hobby we don't share., we restrict smoking because WE find it offensive.
SHE finds touching other men offensive. Why shouldn't she have the same rights as a non-smoker?

Clearly that was required of her.

But that seems to be part of the interview, not part of the job. is it required for the job? MUST it be required for the job?

If it IS required for the job, then it's no longer a question of cultural norms, it's a requirement.
If you're arguing about cultural norms, then it's not a job requirement, it's the interviewer taking offense at someone else's culture.

They're both in Sweden. Sweden has the Swedish culture. Muslims in Sweden don't have a Muslim culture. They also have the Swedish culture. Just because she's Muslim the culture doesn't magically shift around her like some sort of bubble. A culture is pretty fluid and changing. But at the moment, in Sweden, it's rude not to shake someone's hand in an interview. You'll be judged on the type of handshake you do. Because that's how Sweden works. Not shaking hands is not on.

...and like I said... not adapting to the culture you find yourself in is being a dick. I wouldn't want to hire a dick. It's that simple.

If she's working for me as an interpreter I want her focus to be on making her clients like her, because that would reflect well on me. If she makes her clients uncomfortable becuase she's being a Muslim princess with special needs, she can fuck right off.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Sorry, but I don't see what the big deal is?

Then why are you making a big deal out of this?

She got the legal system involved. She got the employer fined. That offends everything I hold sacred. So I will make a big deal out of it.

We have no problem asking smokers to refrain from smoking in certain areas.

2nd hand smoke is a health risk to many people - not shaking hands of the opposite sex is not. In fact, shaking hands is a potential health risk (small, but there) as TSwizzle points out.

Bullshit. Second hand smoke is harmless. It's just unpleasant. If you're worried about all the diseases you might catch from shaking hands, then you are a lunatic, and perhaps shouldn't burdon other people with your neurotic presence.

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But that's the norm is loads of cultures. In those cultures I think it's perfectly acceptable to fire anybody that won't.

I never had you down as an out and out extremist. Just goes to show that even I can make mistakes. Lol.

Everybody sees themselves as middle of the road. So do I.

 

[TSwizzle]

They're both in Sweden. Sweden has the Swedish culture. Muslims in Sweden don't have a Muslim culture. They also have the Swedish culture. Just because she's Muslim the culture doesn't magically shift around her like some sort of bubble. A culture is pretty fluid and changing. But at the moment, in Sweden, it's rude not to shake someone's hand in an interview. You'll be judged on the type of handshake you do. Because that's how Sweden works. Not shaking hands is not on.

...and like I said... not adapting to the culture you find yourself in is being a dick. I wouldn't want to hire a dick. It's that simple.

If she's working for me as an interpreter I want her focus to be on making her clients like her, because that would reflect well on me. If she makes her clients uncomfortable becuase she's being a Muslim princess with special needs, she can fuck right off.

LOL, welcome to the new Sweden. I love the smell of irony in the morning.

 

[ruby sparks]

Everybody sees themselves as middle of the road. So do I.

Fair enough. Pm me when you come up with a reasonable argument as to why I should get fired for not doing the kiss on both cheeks thing then.

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Once, I interviewed a woman for a job. During the interview, I offered her a cup of tea. It's Britain after all. She asked for hot water instead. Who does that? What is even the point? It's almost literally tasteless. Needless to say she was soon looking for another job. Why she couldn't just have a cup of tea in order to get the job is beyond me. Some people. Sheesh.

 

[ruby sparks]

That offends everything I hold sacred.

Enforced cultural norms?

Let's do burqas again. I think I might have misunderstood your position on choice and tolerance.

 

[JohnG]

I'm a staunch atheist, but I don't see the benefit of discrimination against someone's religion unless it is infringing on someone else's rights.

Maybe they should have a sign in the office "Handshakers Only Please"

 

[Keith&Co.]

Muslims in Sweden don't have a Muslim culture.

HAHAHA! Good one, funny.

 

[marc]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/VUAJ6K-1T5g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Juma]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45207086

A Swedish Muslim woman refuses handshake at job interview, doesn't get the job, sues wins case. A fucking disgrace.

Worse is that Swedish law is on the side of the employer. It was EU human rights laws that gave her right in the end.

According to Swedish law any other law trumps respecting religion. But according to EU human rights laws religion is protected.

I hope somebody starts a religion that mandates that you have to have sex with all the women you meet, and then sue for discrimination when denied. My opinion, if you can't even set your religion aside for a moment when you're at a job interview, then perhaps you didn't want that job anyway. So what are they whining about?

Why on earth are you going full jihad for handshakes?
I’m swedish, I live in sweden i really dont remember last time i shook hands with anyone.
Shaking hands is silly and germspreading. Eyecontact and a fast word is enough.

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Muslims in Sweden don't have a Muslim culture.

HAHAHA! Good one, funny.

? No, thats true.

 

[Derec]

Worse is that Swedish law is on the side of the employer. It was EU human rights laws that gave her right in the end.

Told you the EU courts were bad.

Correction: it was a Swedish court who made the decision and a Swedish ombudsman who represented the Islamist. Can't quite blame the EU for that one. Not even a Svedxit would solve the rot that has taken hold in the State of Sweden.

 

[laughing dog]

She got the legal system involved. She got the employer fined. That offends everything I hold sacred. So I will make a big deal out of it.

Then stop asking "what's the big deal"?

Bullshit. Second hand smoke is harmless. It's just unpleasant.

That It is not harmless to those who are allergic to it. And it is not harmless to those who are not allergic to it -URL="ttps://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm"]ttps://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets
/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm[/URL]

If you're worried about all the diseases you might catch from shaking hands, then you are a lunatic, and perhaps shouldn't burdon other people with your neurotic presence.

Coming from someone having a meltdown over this issue, that is hilarious.

[

 

[Derec]

Imagine going to a country and applying for a job, and they don't hire you because you don't shake legs with the boss. Yeah, imagine in that country, shaking legs is the cultural norm but so is respecting diversity. Does shaking legs have anything to do with qualifications of the job? Maybe if you're a car salesman... other than that, it's highly cultural. The practice is on-par with other different cultural practices like bowing, curtseying, ... we're not talking about cutting off hands here, so one practice is not better than the other.

When in Rome, you should adapt Roman cultural norms instead of demanding that Romans all adopt yours.

 

[Derec]

Why is the cultural norm of handshaking more important than the cultural norm of not touching men you're not married to?

Because that chick moved to Sweden. If she doesn't like them, Air Sweden is ready when she is. When a Swede tries to get a job in her Shitsholeistan, the onus should likewise be on him or her to respect Shitholistani cultural norms instead of all Shitholistanis to have to adapt to Swedish cultural norms.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Imagine going to a country and applying for a job, and they don't hire you because you don't shake legs with the boss. Yeah, imagine in that country, shaking legs is the cultural norm but so is respecting diversity. Does shaking legs have anything to do with qualifications of the job? Maybe if you're a car salesman... other than that, it's highly cultural. The practice is on-par with other different cultural practices like bowing, curtseying, ... we're not talking about cutting off hands here, so one practice is not better than the other.

When in Rome, you should adapt Roman cultural norms instead of demanding that Romans all adopt yours.

So, as the nation goes further feminist, you'll adapt to follow the social norms?

When they outlaw prostitution, you're gonna stop hiring prostitutes?

 

[laughing dog]

Because that chick moved to Sweden.

Are you guessing or do you have actual evidence she moved to Sweden? Hint: her name is not evidence she was not born in Sweden.

 

[Derec]

So, as the nation goes further feminist, you'll adapt to follow the social norms?

When they outlaw prostitution, you're gonna stop hiring prostitutes?

Law is different than cultural norms. Despite the unholy alliance of Feminazis and Christofascists in the US and their war on sex they don't like, sex work is very widespread in the US, proving that it is very much part of American culture. So I am just doing my part to further this long-standing American tradition. After all, if it's good enough for Benjamin Franklin, it's good enough for me.

 

[Derec]

Because that chick moved to Sweden.

Are you guessing or do you have actual evidence she moved to Sweden? Hint: her name is not evidence she was not born in Sweden.

True. She could be like Pip the Horse.

Even if the Islamist chick was born in Sweden, she can always move to the old country if she prefers Islamic ways to European ones. What she and those like her should not do is always try to Islamicize Europe.

 

[laughing dog]

True. She could be like Pip the Horse.

And the purpose of that fuckwitted image is...?

Even if the Islamist chick was born in Sweden, she can always move to the old country if she prefers Islamic ways to Euroean ones. What she and those like her should not do is always try to Islamicize Europe.

"Chick"? You really cannot help but denigrate women, can you. And who said she is trying to Islamicize Europe? All she asked was to be treated legally under EU law.

 

[Derec]

And the purpose of that fuckwitted image is...?

To illustrate that just being born in a place does not necessarily mean you belong to that place.

"Chick"? You really cannot help but denigrate women, can you.

Chick is not a denigrating word. How sensitive can you feminist snowflakes get?
What's the preferred nomenclature? "Womyn"?

And who said she is trying to Islamicize Europe? All she asked was to be treated legally under EU law.

She is demanding that both her employer and all her clients have to adapt to her Muslim ways.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That offends everything I hold sacred.

Enforced cultural norms?

Let's do burqas again. I think I might have misunderstood your position on choice and tolerance.

A job interview is a very special scenario. Your would be boss is vetting you to see if you're up for the job. Losing focus on that and bringing up, bizarre and random, special needs is a red flag. There's a time and place for everything. How can that employer be confident she won't put her religion above the client in the future (in some critical situation)? He/she can't.

What clothes you wear while walking down the street on your free time is nobody else's business.

I don't think the two categories are remotely similar.

It's also interesting why she wasn't hired. The motivation was that it's a gender equal work place. They don't allow making difference on genders in the work place.

She was denied the job on progressive feminist grounds. Not that I think that makes a difference. But it makes it less clear who's on "team progressive".