It is wrong to say that Nazis were anti-Jewish!

[Underseer]

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-high-ranking-Nazis-with-Jewish-ancestry

Some Nazis were of Jewish decent. Some modern neo-Nazis are of Jewish decent, such as the leader of the Skokie Nazis in America who caused a big fuss decades ago. Heck, it's possible that Hitler himself was partially of Jewish decent.

Jews would not join the Nazis if the Nazis were prejudiced against Jews, therefore anyone who says that Nazis are bigots is himself a bigot against Nazis. People who say that Nazis are anti-Jewish are the real bigots! The existence of a few Jewish Nazis proves that all Nazis weren't bigots!

Does my argument sound ridiculous? I hope so.

Yes, I am lampooning a common argument used by American conservolibertarians. The above argument is garbage because it is an appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter if you can find Jewish or partially Jewish people who supported the Nazis or became Nazis themselves. That has nothing to do with the question of whether or not Nazis are/were racist (Jews are not just a religion, but also an ethnicity). The only thing that can prove or disprove the racism of Nazis are the things Nazis actually did, and what they did was extremely racist. No matter how many Jews joined the Nazi party, the Nazis were racist against Jews.

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!" It sounds absurd when you do it with Nazis and Jews, but modern right wing nuts have no problem using this same argument again and again regarding other forms of prejudice.

It's even worse when it takes the form of the "but I have a black friend" excuse. Not only is it the same bad logic, but now on top of everything else, you are using your friend as a human shield against accusations of bigotry. That's pretty sleazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

There is some truth in what you say, but you also appear to be confusing individuals for groups. If I have a close black friend, that IS evidence that I am not racist against that black friend (else I may not have him as a friend). Now that certainly doesn't mean nobody you associate as being in my group (social, racial, religious, etc) is racist against that very same person, nor does it mean that group itself isn't founded on racism etc. But yeah... if most of my friends are asian and I am asian myself, that's a pretty good indicator that I'm not racist against asians.

And sometimes "having a black friend" is the only defence a person has against a spurious charge of racism. If the charge is specific then maybe the accused can explain it away, but with a general and baseless charge of racism, such as we hear so often, there isn't much a person can say to prove otherwise and this may be the best evidence there is to consider.

 

[Underseer]

There is some truth in what you say, but you also appear to be confusing individuals for groups. If I have a close black friend, that IS evidence that I am not racist against that black friend (else I may not have him as a friend). Now that certainly doesn't mean nobody you associate as being in my group (social, racial, religious, etc) is racist against that very same person, nor does it mean that group itself isn't founded on racism etc. But yeah... if most of my friends are asian and I am asian myself, that's a pretty good indicator that I'm not racist against asians.

And sometimes "having a black friend" is the only defence a person has against a spurious charge of racism. If the charge is specific then maybe the accused can explain it away, but with a general and baseless charge of racism, such as we hear so often, there isn't much a person can say to prove otherwise and this may be the best evidence there is to consider.

No, it's not.

It really isn't.

The fact that you think it is gets to the heart of what I am saying.

It doesn't matter if you have or don't have black friends. If it did, then the fact that there were/are Jewish Nazis is proof that Nazis are not prejudiced against Jews, and for the same reasons. For that matter, we would argue that Strom Thurmond was not racist because he had an out of wedlock child with a Black woman.

If "I have a black friend" is your only defense, then whatever you did was indefensible. That's kind of the point here.

- - - Updated - - -

And to reiterate, if you're willing to use a friend as a means of deflecting a racism charge, you're not a friend.

 

[laughing dog]

Not only that, but a racist believes that some races are inferior to another race (or races). Nothing prevents a racist to befriend someone who he or she thinks is inferior.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Jews are not just a religion, but also an ethnicity

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite", which is itself used inappropriately. Semite people include Jews but also Arabs and Assyrians. So it's incorrect to equate Jews with an ethnicity. And being Jewish doesn't even guarantee that your father was also Jewish.
EB

 

[Underseer]

Jews are not just a religion, but also an ethnicity

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite", which is itself used inappropriately. Semite people include Jews but also Arabs and Assyrians. So it's incorrect to equate Jews with an ethnicity. And being Jewish doesn't even guarantee that your father was also Jewish.
EB

There is such a thing as a Jewish atheist (or Jewish pantheist in the case of Einstein) and other types of "non-practicing Jews," because right or wrong, many Jews regard it as an ethnicity. Have you ever heard of a non-practicing Mormon?

 

[whichphilosophy]

https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-high-ranking-Nazis-with-Jewish-ancestry

Some Nazis were of Jewish decent. Some modern neo-Nazis are of Jewish decent, such as the leader of the Skokie Nazis in America who caused a big fuss decades ago. Heck, it's possible that Hitler himself was partially of Jewish decent.

Jews would not join the Nazis if the Nazis were prejudiced against Jews, therefore anyone who says that Nazis are bigots is himself a bigot against Nazis. People who say that Nazis are anti-Jewish are the real bigots! The existence of a few Jewish Nazis proves that all Nazis weren't bigots!

Does my argument sound ridiculous? I hope so.

Yes, I am lampooning a common argument used by American conservolibertarians. The above argument is garbage because it is an appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter if you can find Jewish or partially Jewish people who supported the Nazis or became Nazis themselves. That has nothing to do with the question of whether or not Nazis are/were racist (Jews are not just a religion, but also an ethnicity). The only thing that can prove or disprove the racism of Nazis are the things Nazis actually did, and what they did was extremely racist. No matter how many Jews joined the Nazi party, the Nazis were racist against Jews.

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!" It sounds absurd when you do it with Nazis and Jews, but modern right wing nuts have no problem using this same argument again and again regarding other forms of prejudice.

It's even worse when it takes the form of the "but I have a black friend" excuse. Not only is it the same bad logic, but now on top of everything else, you are using your friend as a human shield against accusations of bigotry. That's pretty sleazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

There were some Germans who were half or quarter Jewish yet still allowed to serve in the Armed forces. However Jews as such were not permitted in the armed forces.

See youtube here. There were no actual full Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6rCg6abyow

 

[Speakpigeon]

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite", which is itself used inappropriately. Semite people include Jews but also Arabs and Assyrians. So it's incorrect to equate Jews with an ethnicity. And being Jewish doesn't even guarantee that your father was also Jewish.
EB

There is such a thing as a Jewish atheist (or Jewish pantheist in the case of Einstein) and other types of "non-practicing Jews," because right or wrong, many Jews regard it as an ethnicity. Have you ever heard of a non-practicing Mormon?

And you think I would be unaware of that?!

Since a non-practicing Jew is still usually recognised as a Jew by practicing Jews, they must accept that being Jewish doesn't imply having the religion. Yet this doesn't make Jews an ethnicity. A non-practising Jew is best identified by his culture, i.e. he would have been raised in a Jewish culture, culture itself grown around religious practices. The fact that some Jews think of themselves as an ethnic group isn't specific to Jews. That they believe this doesn't make it true. If you had met with Jews as diverse as Jews from North-Africa, Central Europe and Romania, the idea of ethnic group doesn't make much sense.
EB

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

No, it's not.

It really isn't.

Yeah it is. It really is. it is evidence. Not proof.

The fact that you think it is gets to the heart of what I am saying.

It doesn't matter if you have or don't have black friends. If it did, then the fact that there were/are Jewish Nazis is proof that Nazis are not prejudiced against Jews, and for the same reasons.

No. And as wrote above, you are confusing individuals for groups here. There COULD be a member of the Nazi party who really isn't prejudiced against Jews. He may have joined to save his own neck or for some other reason. Perhaps he joined to infiltrate or help Jews as best he can from within the system, etc. The group itself as a group and party is still racist despite that.

It is also true that you could have lots of black friends or BE black and be racist against black people, sure. You could be self-hating. So its not proof. But it is still evidence that you are are unlikely to be racist. It just ins't conclusive.

And as I wrote above, it may be the only evidence you have to defend yourself against an empty charge with nothing to actually address.

If "I have a black friend" is your only defense, then whatever you did was indefensible. That's kind of the point here.

If I accuse you of hating X and your best friend is a X, or you are a X yourself, that is indeed evidence, not proof, against my accusation. If my accusation is a bare accusation with nothing backing it up, and we see such accusations often when it comes to race, then this evidence seems enough to refute it. If I have something more, an actual good reason to think that you hate X, then you'd have to address those reasons and your having friends who are X wouldn't be enough.

And to reiterate, if you're willing to use a friend as a means of deflecting a racism charge, you're not a friend.

Do you feel that way about all accusations and dragging in witnesses to defend you? We have a whole court system based around it.

 

[ronburgundy]

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!"

No, it isn't, which is why you failed to find a single actual quote from anyone here saying it, and instead dishonestly put quotes around a statement that no one but you has ever made.

 

[Will Wiley]

Jews are not just a religion, but also an ethnicity

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite",

Are blonde haired blue eyed Jews Semites too? If so what does Semite mean?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite", which is itself used inappropriately. Semite people include Jews but also Arabs and Assyrians. So it's incorrect to equate Jews with an ethnicity. And being Jewish doesn't even guarantee that your father was also Jewish.
EB

There is such a thing as a Jewish atheist (or Jewish pantheist in the case of Einstein) and other types of "non-practicing Jews," because right or wrong, many Jews regard it as an ethnicity. Have you ever heard of a non-practicing Mormon?

The term is jack Mormon. An ex-mormon or somebody who no longer practices Mormonism strictly.

It is a common phrase used by Mormons among themselves.

 

[LordKiran]

Something overlooked here is the hypocritical nature of any despotate, since they exist largely to benefit the despot and his inner circle despite whatever lofty ideals or promises they may have spoken before they obtain power. The North Korean Regime was swept into power with claims of fighting for a people's paradise. People's Paradise indeed.

 

[Speakpigeon]

No. Jews are Semite, hence the expression "anti-Semite",

Are blonde haired blue eyed Jews Semites too? If so what does Semite mean?

No. I should have said, 'Most Jews are mostly of Semitic origine'.

The Semitic peoples is a historical fact. The reality of being a Jew today is a both a moving reality and moving construct, and often a conceit.

Pretty much like for any 'identity' we choose to conceive of.
EB

 

[BH]

Hitler had at least a few black friends . There were some fighting on his side. Yes, I saw the pictures much to my shock.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!"

No, it isn't, which is why you failed to find a single actual quote from anyone here saying it, and instead dishonestly put quotes around a statement that no one but you has ever made.

What he actually wrote:

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!" It sounds absurd when you do it with Nazis and Jews, but modern right wing nuts have no problem using this same argument again and again regarding other forms of prejudice.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Jesse Watters: Trump Isn’t Racist Because He Met With Kanye And Has Taken Pictures With Black People

 

[fromderinside]

I consider protecting one's ass and wanting power as racism's fellow travelers.

 

[ronburgundy]

No, it isn't, which is why you failed to find a single actual quote from anyone here saying it, and instead dishonestly put quotes around a statement that no one but you has ever made.

What he actually wrote:

But this is exactly the argument we hear over and over again, isn't it? "Hey, I found this one Nazi who was Jewish, therefore all Nazis were not bigots!!!!!" It sounds absurd when you do it with Nazis and Jews, but modern right wing nuts have no problem using this same argument again and again regarding other forms of prejudice.

My quote was 100% accurate, and the addition last sentence you included changes absolutely nothing. No one here has ever said anything logically equivalent to it, which is he why Underseer did not use any actual quote from anyone, and instead has to invent a statement that had the absurd qualities he could then attack.

 

[repoman]

Jesse Watters: Trump Isn’t Racist Because He Met With Kanye And Has Taken Pictures With Black People

Trump would rather shake hands with Kanye than a poor, low status white person - unless there is a camera around he would not want to touch a poor white person at all.