Just A Little Pro-Life

[ZiprHead]

Yes, this is real. She's "Pro Life Momma" on wordpress.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

She is... very bad at representing herself. She says in vague terms she helped find people to care for the baby, so perhaps she has taken more responsibility here than her initial post indicates. But she decides to express that sentiment as this:

Kati needs money.
Kati asks me to go rob someone.
I say no I won't ruin my life to get her money.
But I find an angel investor to give Kati money so nobody needs to be robbed.
Kati now has money.

Am I a bad guy for not ruining my life by saying yes to Kati's first request?

To some extent, I can understand she is probably being inundated right now with reactions ranging from supportive, to critical, to vile. But in general much of her content seems to be a mess. It would be lovely to say this woman is a minor player who would probably be best ignored, but it's disconcerting if she seeks out women in vulnerable positions with the primary aim of talking them out of abortion.

 

[Jarhyn]

"don't abort, even if you can't afford the baby!"

"I can't afford a baby, I'm not going to accept responsibility for a baby I can't afford!"

Like, bitch, if you're not going to accept responsibility for a human being out of the blue, you shouldn't be trying to convince others they should.

Like, you engineered a situation where a child ended up in foster care. There's no justifying that kind of hypocrisy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Sounds like some people should be more careful what they say.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

She chose her words poorly, but it isn't like she got herself pregnant and wants to abort (and kill) the unborn. She just doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the baby another person made. How this is read will vary based on how one views abortion (is it the killing of an innocent person or is it just a choice if a person will be made?). So I can see why she and others on her side won't understand why many of you on the opposite side see what she's said as hypocritical.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

She chose her words poorly, but it isn't like she got herself pregnant and wants to abort (and kill) the unborn.

Which words... in her post... or in her conversation with a pregnant woman looking to get an abortion and being told she help her in any way she could?

She just doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the baby another person made. How this is read will vary based on how one views abortion (is it the killing of an innocent person or is it just a choice if a person will be made?). So I can see why she and others on her side won't understand why many of you on the opposite side see what she's said as hypocritical.

This goes beyond just being hypocritical. It is about inserting ones judgment into another's life... convincing people incapable of raising a child to have a child and try to raise it... to then lead to the real world suffering of the child (an infant) in such a way that the child needs to be removed from their home. To have it happen this quickly is alarming!

Her reaction to the whole thing should be leading to an epiphany that maybe she needs to stop playing god with people's lives. Instead she decides to vent "Woe is me."

 

[Toni]

She chose her words poorly, but it isn't like she got herself pregnant and wants to abort (and kill) the unborn. She just doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the baby another person made. How this is read will vary based on how one views abortion (is it the killing of an innocent person or is it just a choice if a person will be made?). So I can see why she and others on her side won't understand why many of you on the opposite side see what she's said as hypocritical.

Biology may not be your long suit so I’ll just explain now: a woman does not get herself pregnant. Human beings do not reproduce by parthenogenesis .

So, she can’t handle the baby because she already works too much, it would harm her marriage and wreck her health. But it’s ok in her mind for the pregnant woman to have a baby she is already working too much, it would harm her marriage/relationship and harm her physical health.

What makes her so special that she should not have to take care of a baby the other woman cannot take care of? Nobody is suggesting that the fetus be transplanted into her uterus.

Why does she think the woman seeking a abortion wants one? Probably because she already works too much, it would harm her relationship and risks harming her health. That’s why most women seek abortions: they can’t juggle a job or school and a baby, not to mention the fact that many women are penalized at school and work for being pregnant; it would harm her relationships, and it would risk her health.

Hypocrisy? Lack of empathy? It’s both. Plus the desire to punish women for getting pregnant.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

She chose her words poorly, but it isn't like she got herself pregnant and wants to abort (and kill) the unborn.

Which words... in her post... or in her conversation with a pregnant woman looking to get an abortion and being told she help her in any way she could?

She just doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the baby another person made. How this is read will vary based on how one views abortion (is it the killing of an innocent person or is it just a choice if a person will be made?). So I can see why she and others on her side won't understand why many of you on the opposite side see what she's said as hypocritical.

This goes beyond just being hypocritical. It is about inserting ones judgment into another's life... convincing people incapable of raising a child to have a child and try to raise it... to then lead to the real world suffering of the child (an infant) in such a way that the child needs to be removed from their home. To have it happen this quickly is alarming!

Her reaction to the whole thing should be leading to an epiphany that maybe she needs to stop playing god with people's lives. Instead she decides to vent "Woe is me."

What you write here makes perfect sense, unless you view abortion as the murder of an innocent person, as I gather she does.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Biology may not be your long suit so I’ll just explain now: a woman does not get herself pregnant. Human beings do not reproduce by parthenogenesis .

Gee thanks Toni. And here I thought humans reproduced like ameobas.... Yes she got herself pregnant. That doesn't mean nobody else was involved. And short of rape, it was entirely her choice to do what people do to make babies.

So, she can’t handle the baby because she already works too much, it would harm her marriage and wreck her health. But it’s ok in her mind for the pregnant woman to have a baby she is already working too much, it would harm her marriage/relationship and harm her physical health.

Again, in the one case we are talking about killing something/someone and in the other we are not. That will matter or not matter to you depending on how you view abortion, and if you see it as the killing of an innocent human being / person. I get it that you don't. She apparently does.

Moreover, what she wrote doesn't insist that the other woman raise the baby, only that she not kill the baby before the baby is born. She even says that child services were right to take the baby from the mother, calling it justified. That goes against this idea that she insisted the mother raise the baby.

Why does she think the woman seeking a abortion wants one? Probably because she already works too much, it would harm her relationship and risks harming her health. That’s why most women seek abortions: they can’t juggle a job or school and a baby, not to mention the fact that many women are penalized at school and work for being pregnant; it would harm her relationships, and it would risk her health.

Yes. We all see that. She probably sees that herself. But she doesn't think it justifies killing the baby.

Hypocrisy? Lack of empathy? It’s both. Plus the desire to punish women for getting pregnant.

She would fire right back at you and wonder where your empathy is for the baby if you are ok with it's killing in the womb.

I'm a bit surprised at how you are unable or unwilling to understand her mindset even if you disagree with it. You think this is about her wanting to control the woman's life etc. But this is just as consistent with what she will actually tell you; that its about not killing innocent people. That she in the same tweet writes about not wanting people to impede on her own life choices (which doesn't involve a killing if she does it her way though - the important difference) is why it was a poor choice of words. Your reaction to it was predictable and she should have phrased it differently.

 

[Gun Nut]

Gee thanks Toni. And here I thought humans reproduced like ameobas.... Yes she got herself pregnant. That doesn't mean nobody else was involved. And short of rape, it was entirely her choice to do what people do to make babies.



Again, in the one case we are talking about killing something/someone and in the other we are not. That will matter or not matter to you depending on how you view abortion, and if you see it as the killing of an innocent human being / person. I get it that you don't. She apparently does.

Moreover, what she wrote doesn't insist that the other woman raise the baby, only that she not kill the baby before the baby is born. She even says that child services were right to take the baby from the mother, calling it justified. That goes against this idea that she insisted the mother raise the baby.

Why does she think the woman seeking a abortion wants one? Probably because she already works too much, it would harm her relationship and risks harming her health. That’s why most women seek abortions: they can’t juggle a job or school and a baby, not to mention the fact that many women are penalized at school and work for being pregnant; it would harm her relationships, and it would risk her health.

Yes. We all see that. She probably sees that herself. But she doesn't think it justifies killing the baby.

Hypocrisy? Lack of empathy? It’s both. Plus the desire to punish women for getting pregnant.

She would fire right back at you and wonder where your empathy is for the baby if you are ok with it's killing in the womb.

I'm a bit surprised at how you are unable or unwilling to understand her mindset even if you disagree with it. You think this is about her wanting to control the woman's life etc. But this is just as consistent with what she will actually tell you; that its about not killing people. That she in the same tweet writes about not wanting people to impede on her own life choices (which doesn't involve a killing if she does it her way though - the important difference) is why it was a poor choice of words. Your reaction to it was predictable and she should have phrased it differently.

Your post only makes sense in the context of "a fetus in the womb is the same as a fully formed human person". It is not. So it makes no sense to call the removal of a clumpy wad of cells, like performing a biopsy of a small bit of tissue, "murder". This is why these two camps talk past each other. We cannot agree on what we are talking about.
No one disagrees that murder is bad. No one disagrees that a biopsy of a few cells is not murder. The disagreement is is about if those cells have a soul... and that can be argued in church, in my opinion, not in the courts.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Moreover, what she wrote doesn't insist that the other woman raise the baby, only that she not kill the baby before the baby is born.

Where in the world did you get that from? We don't know precisely what she told this woman last year. You do not have transcripts of her conversation with the woman, imploring her not to get an abortion, nor has the woman provided any info about what she told the person seeking an abortion: ie, the promises of support, etc...?

She even says that child services were right to take the baby from the mother, calling it justified.

Meaning either abuse, neglect, drugs. Most likely drugs, if it were this quick.

That goes against this idea that she insisted the mother raise the baby.

If she didn't insist the woman raise the baby... one could possibly wonder why said baby wasn't put up for adoption to begin with. And that this woman was put on a list of potential caretakers for the infant, that implies this woman made some statements that were easily 'mistaken' (taken at face value?) for providing higher levels of support.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is a good deal more to the story. Life when you go viral.

 

[ZiprHead]

Here is a good deal more to the story. Life when you go viral.

Sounds like excuses for making another woman's life even more of a living hell than it obviously was prior to her sticking her nose in someone else's business.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is a good deal more to the story. Life when you go viral.

Sounds like excuses for making another woman's life even more of a living hell than it obviously was prior to her sticking her nose in someone else's business.

I've been told that only makes sense if you don't think abortion is murder... therefore... some kind of point.

 

[Elixir]

I remember back when I was a 21 WEEK (sorry for the slip in the original - thanks Kieth for pointing it out) old fetus, I would have been really pissed if I got aborted. It plagued me for days.
Oh, wait - nevermind. That was someone else. I don't remember a goddam thing from back before I was born.

Carry on...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I remember back when I was a 21 month old fetus, I would have been really pissed if I got aborted. It plagued me for days.
Oh, wait - nevermind. That was someone else. I don't remember a goddam thing from back before I was born.

Carry on...

Jesus Christ man! Your mother must have gone through hell with that pregnancy!

...unless you are really an elephant. Which would explain the endless peanut jokes.

 

[Elixir]

I remember back when I was a 21 month old fetus, I would have been really pissed if I got aborted. It plagued me for days.
Oh, wait - nevermind. That was someone else. I don't remember a goddam thing from back before I was born.

Carry on...

Jesus Christ man! Your mother must have gone through hell with that pregnancy!

So she told me - not that I ever believed it for a moment.

 

[marc]

Here is a good deal more to the story. Life when you go viral.

Sounds like excuses for making another woman's life even more of a living hell than it obviously was prior to her sticking her nose in someone else's business.

I've been told that only makes sense if you don't think abortion is murder... therefore... some kind of point.

I would say the point is that from this woman's point of view abortion is murder, and all other considerations of the pregnant woman's life, finances, relationships, lack of support are to be ignored. Nothing is as important to her as preventing the abortion, regardless of the chaos it would bring to the other woman. I would say the woman is not empathetic, insensitive, ignorant, and a few other things, but I wouldn't say she is a hypocrite. Not until she becomes pregnant by accident and has to decide on having her life ruined as she predicted or have an abortion.

 

[Toni]

Gee thanks Toni. And here I thought humans reproduced like ameobas.... Yes she got herself pregnant. That doesn't mean nobody else was involved. And short of rape, it was entirely her choice to do what people do to make babies.



Again, in the one case we are talking about killing something/someone and in the other we are not. That will matter or not matter to you depending on how you view abortion, and if you see it as the killing of an innocent human being / person. I get it that you don't. She apparently does.

Moreover, what she wrote doesn't insist that the other woman raise the baby, only that she not kill the baby before the baby is born. She even says that child services were right to take the baby from the mother, calling it justified. That goes against this idea that she insisted the mother raise the baby.

Why does she think the woman seeking a abortion wants one? Probably because she already works too much, it would harm her relationship and risks harming her health. That’s why most women seek abortions: they can’t juggle a job or school and a baby, not to mention the fact that many women are penalized at school and work for being pregnant; it would harm her relationships, and it would risk her health.

Yes. We all see that. She probably sees that herself. But she doesn't think it justifies killing the baby.

Hypocrisy? Lack of empathy? It’s both. Plus the desire to punish women for getting pregnant.

She would fire right back at you and wonder where your empathy is for the baby if you are ok with it's killing in the womb.

I'm a bit surprised at how you are unable or unwilling to understand her mindset even if you disagree with it. You think this is about her wanting to control the woman's life etc. But this is just as consistent with what she will actually tell you; that its about not killing innocent people. That she in the same tweet writes about not wanting people to impede on her own life choices (which doesn't involve a killing if she does it her way though - the important difference) is why it was a poor choice of words. Your reaction to it was predictable and she should have phrased it differently.

If you are so well informed about how babies are made, then perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. Sh did not ‘get herself pregnant.’ Some post pubescent male got her pregnant. We have no idea if coercion was involved or if the sex was consensual or whether the woman was able to give consent. We have no idea if birth control was used and or if it failed. We have no idea if the male who got her pregnant lied to her about his own fertility (this actually happens).

We have no idea if the woman who is pregnant is able to provide for her own basic needs of food, shelter, medical care. We have no idea if she has other serious health care needs that are seriously impacted by the pregnancy. We have no idea what her employment status is and if continuing the pregnancy will affect her employment or education status. I mean: what if she is a stripper or prostitute? Not only would her pregnancy continue to impede her ability to earn a living but all sex workers face an increased threat of serious violence and/or STIs. Or maybe she’s a waitress or a construction worker? Long haul truck driver? Soldier? Police officer? Firefighter? Plumber? (Trust me: advanced pregnancy does imp dcyour ability to perform certain plumbing tasks). Is she providing for other children? A disabled husband or parent?

We have no idea how continuing a pregnancy will affect her economic status? Her emoymenr/education status, her housing, her relationships. Or her health.

Whether we agree with or approve of her decision, it is her choice to make the decision she believes best for herself. After all, she is the one who will have to live with whatever consequences come from the pregnancy, whether it continues to term or whether it is ended-by her choice or by miscarriage .


I think I do understand the post writer’s mindset: sacrifices are fine for other people and she doesn’t care what comes after birth so long as she is not expected to make any sacrifices. I understand and recognize hypocrisy when I see it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Your post only makes sense in the context of "a fetus in the womb is the same as a fully formed human person".

It makes sense in the context of "a human being before birth is an innocent person worthy of protection". It doesn't have to be as fully formed as a person who is born. And a newborn isn't as fully formed as a person as a 10 year old either.

This is why these two camps talk past each other. We cannot agree on what we are talking about. No one disagrees that murder is bad. No one disagrees that a biopsy of a few cells is not murder.

Exactly my point.

And we as humans have a tendency to project motives that may or may not exist. The pro-life people think that the pro-choice people aren't as empathetic and don't care about what they see as the murder of a person. The pro-choice people think the pro-life people are only concerned with controlling womens' lives (as we see with Toni in the post I was responding to).