Justice Department sues Georgia for voting laws that target black voters

[Copernicus]

See In Suing Georgia, Justice Department Says State's New Voting Law Targets Black Voters. Assuming that this case reaches the Supreme Court, do you believe that the conservative majority will side with the DoJ or Georgia?

My opinion is that the conservative majority on the Supreme Court will uphold Georgia's discriminatory law, because it merely goes after likely Democratic voters, many of whom happen to be African American in the affected areas. This is a great example of how systemic racism works. By reducing ballot options, the legislature knew that densely populated urban and suburban neighborhoods would be negatively impacted. That is where most Democratic votes come from. Voters would end up standing in long lines, and they would not even be able to get food and water easily while waiting. Justice Roberts had already said that racism was no longer a problem in those southern states that had to get pre-approval for such laws under the Civil Rights Voting Act, and the majority gutted that law. It will be predisposed to turn a blind eye to the inherent racism here, because nobody who actually enforces the law will be taking race into account. They will just be doing what the system requires them to do. If people of color are disproportionately affected, too bad.

 

[TV and credit cards]

History would say Georgia. But then again, if they like living in a democracy, they may just swing DoJ.

 

[Trausti]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

 

[Toni]

This outlines the DOJ case:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...st-state-georgia-stop-racially-discriminatory

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JUSTICE NEWS
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, June 25, 2021
Justice Department Files Lawsuit Against the State of Georgia to Stop Racially Discriminatory Provisions of New Voting Law
The U.S. Justice Department announced today that it filed a lawsuit against the State of Georgia, the Georgia Secretary of State, and the Georgia State Election Board over recent voting procedures adopted by Georgia Senate Bill 202, which was signed into law in March 2021. The United States’ complaint challenges provisions of Senate Bill 202 under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.

“The right of all eligible citizens to vote is the central pillar of our democracy, the right from which all other rights ultimately flow,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland “This lawsuit is the first step of many we are taking to ensure that all eligible voters can cast a vote; that all lawful votes are counted; and that every voter has access to accurate information.”

“The right to vote is one of the most central rights in our democracy and protecting the right to vote for all Americans is at the core of the Civil Rights Division’s mission,” said Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clarke for Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. “The Department of Justice will use all the tools it has available to ensure that each eligible citizen can register, cast a ballot, and have that ballot counted free from racial discrimination. Laws adopted with a racially motivated purpose, like Georgia Senate Bill 202, simply have no place in democracy today.”

“One of the fundamental rights of our democracy is the right to vote. That right should be protected for every citizen of our district, regardless of race,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Kurt R. Erskine for the Northern District of Georgia. “The United States Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia is committed to protecting the rights of all Americans to vote.”

The United States’ complaint contends that several provisions of Senate Bill 202 were adopted with the purpose of denying or abridging the right to vote on account of race. The Justice Department’s lawsuit alleges that the cumulative and discriminatory effect of these laws—particularly on Black voters—was known to lawmakers and that lawmakers adopted the law despite this.

The United States’ complaint challenges several provisions of Senate Bill 202, including a provision banning government entities from distributing unsolicited absentee ballot applications; the imposition of costly and onerous fines on civic organizations, churches and advocacy groups that distribute follow-up absentee ballot applications; the shortening of the deadline to request absentee ballots to 11 days before Election Day; the requirement that voters who do not have identification issued by the Georgia Department of Driver Services photocopy another form of identification in order to request an absentee ballot without allowing for use of the last four digits of a social security number for such applications; significant limitations on counties’ use of absentee ballot drop boxes; the prohibition on efforts by churches and civic groups to provide food or water to persons waiting in long lines to vote; and the prohibition on counting out-of-precinct provisional ballots cast before 5 p.m. on Election Day. The complaint asks the court to prohibit Georgia from enforcing these requirements.

At the very least, the provisions outlawing providing food and/or water to people standing in long lines seems like a pretty blatant attempt to reduce the number of voters, which is especially onerous as Georgia along with some other states has dramatically reduced the number of polling places.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/9245...-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl

In Georgia, considered a battleground state for control of the White House and U.S. Senate, the difficulty of voting in Black communities like Union City could possibly tip the results on Nov. 3. With massive turnout expected, lines could be even longer than they were for the primary, despite a rise in mail-in voting and Georgians already turning out by the hundreds of thousands to cast ballots early.

Since the U.S. Supreme Court's Shelby v. Holder decision in 2013 eliminated key federal oversight of election decisions in states with histories of discrimination, Georgia's voter rolls have grown by nearly 2 million people, yet polling locations have been cut statewide by nearly 10%, according to an analysis of state and local records by Georgia Public Broadcasting and ProPublica. Much of the growth has been fueled by younger, nonwhite voters, especially in nine metro Atlanta counties, where four out of five new voters were nonwhite, according to the Georgia secretary of state's office.


The metro Atlanta area has been hit particularly hard. The nine counties — Fulton, Gwinnett, Forsyth, DeKalb, Cobb, Hall, Cherokee, Henry and Clayton — have nearly half of the state's active voters but only 38% of the polling places, according to the analysis.

As a result, the average number of voters packed into each polling location in those counties grew by nearly 40%, from about 2,600 in 2012 to more than 3,600 per polling place as of Oct. 9, the analysis shows. In addition, a last-minute push that opened more than 90 polling places just weeks before the November election has left many voters uncertain about where to vote or how long they might wait to cast a ballot.

I always vote. Always. But I must admit that it is exceptionally easy for me to vote in my small town with plenty of polling places, and my polling place in easy walking distance. I don't generally have to wait in line or not for very long, and I get to chat with neighbors and friends while waiting to cast my ballot. I like to think I would still vote if the lines were hours long and the weather horrible but maybe not. I can see how long lines would be a big deterrence if I had to try to vote after working a long shift (or before a long shift) and I didn't have a supportive employer.

 

[southernhybrid]

I heard the DOJ's speeches this morning. They were very convincing. As a person who has lived in Georgia for almost 25 years, I agree with the DOJ that these new laws were made to suppress the vote in areas where the majority of voters are Black Democrats. It's always been easy for me to vote in Georgia, but I live in a county of 69,000 people, do when I voted during the early voting days, I've never had to wait for more than about 20 minutes. People in Fulton and Dekalb counties, the two largest counties in the state, which are both primarily Democratic, some people waited in line for up to 8 hours. That's wrong. In fact, voting should be made easier in those counties. There are some things in the new law which can only be described as heinous, primarily the parts that allow state politicians to interfere or void the results of an election based on their own bias.

I'm sure there will be more lawsuits as more states have or are about to pass similar laws. Republicans in Georgia just can't get over the fact that more Democrats are voting and we gave the Senate two New Democrats. That's what this is really about. In all my years here, I've always been frustrated by voter apathy. Now that more people are beginning to realize the importance of voting, the Republicans can't stand it.

I'm not sure how SCOTUS will rule. They may allow some parts of the new law to remain while overturning the parts that are obvious attempts at voter suppression.

 

[thebeave]

So, white people know how to fill up a water bottle to take with them, but apparently, black people haven't figured out how to do that yet? I thought the "blacks not knowing how to get online or get an ID" was pretty condescending, but not being able to fill water bottles is at a whole new level. Besides, as Trausti mentioned, the polling stations can (and should) provide water when long waits are expected. Its just against the rules for outsiders (special interest groups, etc) to give food and water to those waiting in line so as not to influence voters.

BTW, as far as the voter ID, the majority of both black and white people are in favor of voter ID. Around 70 to 80% approve, IIRC.

 

[Toni]

So, white people know how to fill up a water bottle to take with them, but apparently, black people haven't figured out how to do that yet? I thought the "blacks not knowing how to get online or get an ID" was pretty condescending, but not being able to fill water bottles is at a whole new level. Besides, as Trausti mentioned, the polling stations can (and should) provide water when long waits are expected. Its just against the rules for outsiders (special interest groups, etc) to give food and water to those waiting in line so as not to influence voters.

BTW, as far as the voter ID, the majority of both black and white people are in favor of voter ID. Around 70 to 80% approve, IIRC.

Working class people are more likely to be on their way to or from work, perhaps with little time to grab their water bottle, or no extra hands while using public transportation, dropping off kids with all their stuff, etc. Having done that, sometimes just attempting one more thing to carry was too much. One bottle of water wouldn’t be sufficient for me during an 8 hr wait and I’d definitely need a bathroom a coupe of times, without the water.

In my state, there can be no political signs, campaigning or even a campaign button on your coat within so many yards of a polling place. It makes sense that no candidate or campaign should be allowed to hand out stuff to people waiting in line. It doesn’t make sense that poll workers could not or that nonpartisan groups such as The League of Women Voters could not.

Getting a state approved voter ID can be challenging for some people, especially older folks who may have been born at home, or who may not know that there is a mistake in spelling on one of their original documents or the court house burned down ( happens more than you’d think)—and can be especially onerous if they don’t live near the county seat, have to rely on public transport or friends, don’t have extra money to pay for documents, etc. It hurts mostly poor people and older people.

Of course this would not be necessary if states maintained sufficient polling places so that it’s as like mine where I am greeted by my neighbor across the street or my friend whose kids went to school with mine: in other words, where people know one another.

 

[Copernicus]

I probably should not have tried to put a poll question at the top of this thread, but there is no way to edit it out. Literally nobody but me has bothered with it, so no harm done.

 

[Gospel]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

So it's ok for the local election supervisor to electioneer. I mean if the act of handing out water is electioneering then it should be illegal across the board.

 

[Metaphor]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

So it's ok for the local election supervisor to electioneer. I mean if the act of handing out water is electioneering then it should be illegal across the board.

Not the act of handing out water. The act of handing out water, to voters waiting to vote, while in the role of somebody who is there to influence your vote.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

Looks like they fixed the ID problem--last 4 of social isn't going to be a problem for much of anyone.

Drop boxes--note that the rules de-facto restrict them to working hours. That is going to be a problem.

Note that they are limited to one per 100,000--could be a problem in rural areas.

What good are self-service water stations when you have to get out of line to get to them?? And how is someone in a long line even supposed to know they are there?

Election board is "supposed to be non-partisan". In other words, it will be highly partisan.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, white people know how to fill up a water bottle to take with them, but apparently, black people haven't figured out how to do that yet? I thought the "blacks not knowing how to get online or get an ID" was pretty condescending, but not being able to fill water bottles is at a whole new level. Besides, as Trausti mentioned, the polling stations can (and should) provide water when long waits are expected. Its just against the rules for outsiders (special interest groups, etc) to give food and water to those waiting in line so as not to influence voters.

BTW, as far as the voter ID, the majority of both black and white people are in favor of voter ID. Around 70 to 80% approve, IIRC.

You don't go expecting a long line. I never would think to bring a water bottle.

Not knowing how to get online is a very real issue for many elderly. My wife's licensing board sends out the renewal stuff only by e-mail these days (or you can go to their website and download it.) I think we are now down to one person here that needs help.

And just because the stations should provide water doesn't mean it will happen. With things like this don't look at how it should happen, look at how a malicious actor can make bad results within the limits of the rules. It's the same way I have to look at programming--pretend Moriarty is out there trying to make things happen in a way that will cause it to fail.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In my state, there can be no political signs, campaigning or even a campaign button on your coat within so many yards of a polling place. It makes sense that no candidate or campaign should be allowed to hand out stuff to people waiting in line. It doesn’t make sense that poll workers could not or that nonpartisan groups such as The League of Women Voters could not.

I don't care if it's campaign workers so long as there is no indication of that fact. Strictly enforce no electioneering and so long as it isn't the candidate themselves (with a recognizable face) what's the problem?

 

[laughing dog]

In my state, there can be no political signs, campaigning or even a campaign button on your coat within so many yards of a polling place. It makes sense that no candidate or campaign should be allowed to hand out stuff to people waiting in line. It doesn’t make sense that poll workers could not or that nonpartisan groups such as The League of Women Voters could not.

I don't care if it's campaign workers so long as there is no indication of that fact. Strictly enforce no electioneering and so long as it isn't the candidate themselves (with a recognizable face) what's the problem?

It is nice to not being harassed on the way to cast my ballot.

 

[southernhybrid]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

We've had voter ID in Georgia for about 20 years. I don't remember the exact year it was implemented. I don't think that's the major problem, although when it comes to voting by mail. in the past, voter ID wasn't required. Signatures were matched when the ballots were received as I would expect you already know.

Making it a crime to hand out a bottle of water is just cruel and unnecessary. Does anyone honestly think that a person is going to change how they vote because a stranger handed them a bottle of water? Seriously. I'm calling bullshit on that one. It appears to me as if by denying handing out water or snacks, the Republicans are hoping that some voters who must stand in unbearably long lines will give up and leave when they become hungry or thirsty.

And, I just found out yesterday, that more Black residents in Georgia vote by mail compared to White residents. Perhaps that's because more Black residents live in the areas that have extremely long lines at their voting locations. To me, making it more difficult to vote by mail certainly appears to have some racist undertones. Still, I am somewhat optimist that due to activists like Stacey Abrams, those who lack the type of ID required to vote by mail will be helped to obtain it.

From my perspective, your post seems a bit biased. Why would there be a need to make it harder to vote when we had such a well run election in 2020, along with the largest turn out ever? Even our Republican SOS has admitted that. So, any open minded person should question why there was any need to change these rules, other than to make it harder for persons who live in certain areas to practice their right to vote.

We all should want to make voting easier for all American citizens, not more difficult. Otherwise, we are only pretending to be a country that values democracy and civil rights. Of course sadly, our history says that's often been the case

Btw, there are about 6 or 7 other organizations in Georgia who also have lawsuits pending in regards to the recently passed laws that make it harder for certain groups to vote.

 

[Trausti]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

We've had voter ID in Georgia for about 20 years. I don't remember the exact year it was implemented. I don't think that's the major problem, although when it comes to voting by mail. in the past, voter ID wasn't required. Signatures were matched when the ballots were received as I would expect you already know.

Making it a crime to hand out a bottle of water is just cruel and unnecessary. Does anyone honestly think that a person is going to change how they vote because a stranger handed them a bottle of water? Seriously. I'm calling bullshit on that one. It appears to me as if by denying handing out water or snacks, the Republicans are hoping that some voters who must stand in unbearably long lines will give up and leave when they become hungry or thirsty.

And, I just found out yesterday, that more Black residents in Georgia vote by mail compared to White residents. Perhaps that's because more Black residents live in the areas that have extremely long lines at their voting locations. To me, making it more difficult to vote by mail certainly appears to have some racist undertones. Still, I am somewhat optimist that due to activists like Stacey Abrams, those who lack the type of ID required to vote by mail will be helped to obtain it.

From my perspective, your post seems a bit biased. Why would there be a need to make it harder to vote when we had such a well run election in 2020, along with the largest turn out ever? Even our Republican SOS has admitted that. So, any open minded person should question why there was any need to change these rules, other than to make it harder for persons who live in certain areas to practice their right to vote.

We all should want to make voting easier for all American citizens, not more difficult. Otherwise, we are only pretending to be a country that values democracy and civil rights. Of course sadly, our history says that's often been the case

Btw, there are about 6 or 7 other organizations in Georgia who also have lawsuits pending in regards to the recently passed laws that make it harder for certain groups to vote.

The question isn’t whether you would do it differently; it’s whether Georgia’s law violates the Constitution. To say it does is just partisan silliness. It’s more accommodating than New York and Delaware, and this DOJ seems okay with those.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In my state, there can be no political signs, campaigning or even a campaign button on your coat within so many yards of a polling place. It makes sense that no candidate or campaign should be allowed to hand out stuff to people waiting in line. It doesn’t make sense that poll workers could not or that nonpartisan groups such as The League of Women Voters could not.

I don't care if it's campaign workers so long as there is no indication of that fact. Strictly enforce no electioneering and so long as it isn't the candidate themselves (with a recognizable face) what's the problem?

It is nice to not being harassed on the way to cast my ballot.

That's why I was saying strict enforcement of no electioneering.

If they're harassing you about how to vote they are breaking that law.

 

[SimpleDon]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

We've had voter ID in Georgia for about 20 years. I don't remember the exact year it was implemented. I don't think that's the major problem, although when it comes to voting by mail. in the past, voter ID wasn't required. Signatures were matched when the ballots were received as I would expect you already know.

Making it a crime to hand out a bottle of water is just cruel and unnecessary. Does anyone honestly think that a person is going to change how they vote because a stranger handed them a bottle of water? Seriously. I'm calling bullshit on that one. It appears to me as if by denying handing out water or snacks, the Republicans are hoping that some voters who must stand in unbearably long lines will give up and leave when they become hungry or thirsty.

And, I just found out yesterday, that more Black residents in Georgia vote by mail compared to White residents. Perhaps that's because more Black residents live in the areas that have extremely long lines at their voting locations. To me, making it more difficult to vote by mail certainly appears to have some racist undertones. Still, I am somewhat optimist that due to activists like Stacey Abrams, those who lack the type of ID required to vote by mail will be helped to obtain it.

From my perspective, your post seems a bit biased. Why would there be a need to make it harder to vote when we had such a well run election in 2020, along with the largest turn out ever? Even our Republican SOS has admitted that. So, any open minded person should question why there was any need to change these rules, other than to make it harder for persons who live in certain areas to practice their right to vote.

We all should want to make voting easier for all American citizens, not more difficult. Otherwise, we are only pretending to be a country that values democracy and civil rights. Of course sadly, our history says that's often been the case

Btw, there are about 6 or 7 other organizations in Georgia who also have lawsuits pending in regards to the recently passed laws that make it harder for certain groups to vote.

The question isn’t whether you would do it differently; it’s whether Georgia’s law violates the Constitution. To say it does is just partisan silliness. It’s more accommodating than New York and Delaware, and this DOJ seems okay with those.

Do you believe that New York and Delaware have more restrictive voting laws in an attempt to exclude people from voting? I think that this what you are not taking into account. The DOJ is concerned that the highly partisan nature of these laws, they haven't had any support from the minority parties in Georgia, means that they are being passed in the hope that the laws will deter Democratic and Libertarian voters from voting.

As for the Georgia law violating the constitution, you aren't taking into account the 15th amendment to the constitution, here it is,

Section 1
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

So if Georgia passed this law to deny the right of people to vote because of their race it is unconstitutional. If they passed the law with the best intentions but it results in people of color not being able to vote it is unconstitutional.

If you have an argument of why they passed the law other than to reduce the participation of blacks in the process then present it along with the evidence to support it.

 

[Copernicus]

This really is the politicalization of the DOJ. Here’s a CBS rundown of the Georgia law: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-law-9-facts/#app

What’s the problem? The ballot box complaint is a canard; Georgia only first had those for 2020 due to Covid. The new rule says one per 100k people and it should be in an election office for security. The not giving water in line goes clearly to electioneering at the polls. The law allows the local election supervisor to set up water stations. And the Supreme Court already ruled that voter ID is constitutional.

So it's ok for the local election supervisor to electioneer. I mean if the act of handing out water is electioneering then it should be illegal across the board.

Not the act of handing out water. The act of handing out water, to voters waiting to vote, while in the role of somebody who is there to influence your vote.

Your argument is utterly absurd. If the concern is whether someone is trying to influence people on how to vote while standing in a line to vote, then THAT is what should be illegal, not just handing out food and water. Do they list all of the things that could be handed out to people as an inducement to vote? The purpose behind this law is intentional cruelty, because they count on their state to make sure that the voting facilities are inadequate to deal with the volume of voters. Everyone knows what the purpose of these laws is--to suppress the votes of likely Democratic voters. Republicans are not trying to make elections fairer. They are doing everything they can to make them less fair.

 

[Copernicus]

I am pleased to see that a few people have actually voted in the survey, but I hope they take the question literally. It is not whether one thinks that SCOTUS ought to side with the DoJ but whether they will side with it. Is it likely that this particular Supreme Court will buy into the idea of the law contributing to systemic racism? With all the kerfuffle over "Critical Race Theory" these days, Republicans are not recognizing a distinction between individual racism and systemic racism. That's why I think they are likely to reject the DoJ's challenge to the Georgia law.