LGBTQ+ and Christianity

[1Heidegger1!]

Hi everyone!

I wanted to start this thread if anyone wants to discuss ideas like conservative Christianity and LGBTQ+ rights. I'll start by sharing a blog post I recently did about LGBTQ+ and Christian origins. It's here: LGBTQ+ Rights And The Birth Of Christianity . Any comments on the blog post or any ideas related to this thread are welcome!

 

[steve_bank]

Going by the OT and NT, gays have no rights and are to be suppressed. The OT and NT are clearly sexually conservative on all sides. Plus the misogyny.

'God-Jesus loves everybody' is a modern liberal Christian invention. Christianity has never been tolerant of differences.

Thankfully separation of church and state won out when COTUS was written, so none of that stuff was made law.

There were the old Blue Laws based on Christianity. A common one was criminalize oral sex even between hetero husband and wife.


Not saying anything new, anyone can make either a liberal or conservative case for Jesus/god inclusive of gay rights.

As to trans, there is a passage where Jess seems to praise those men who become eunuchs by choice. Never heard this used by Christians.

The Chritian Chinese menu approch, pick a morality from column a and one from column b.

Matthew 19:12 - Teachings about Divorce

For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

biblehub.com

Context
Teachings about Divorce
…11“Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” 13Then the little children were brought to Jesus for Him to place His hands on them and pray for them. And the disciples rebuked those who brought them.…


Cross References
Matthew 19:11
"Not everyone can accept this word," He replied, "but only those to whom it has been given.

Matthew 19:13
Then the little children were brought to Jesus for Him to place His hands on them and pray for them. And the disciples rebuked those who brought them.

Revelation 14:4
These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.







New International Version
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

New Living Translation
Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

English Standard Version
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

 

[1Heidegger1!]

Hi everyone!

I wanted to start this thread if anyone wants to discuss ideas like conservative Christianity and LGBTQ+ rights. I'll start by sharing a blog post I recently did about LGBTQ+ and Christian origins. It's here: LGBTQ+ Rights And The Birth Of Christianity . Any comments on the blog post or any ideas related to this thread are welcome!

What I'm trying to argue above is that the naked young man (Mark 14:51–52) is seen by opponents as guilty as the naked Adam (i) in following supposedly sinful Jesus and (ii) sexual deviancy, but is exonerated from both, appearing fully clothed in the tomb (Mark 16: 5-7)

 

[steve_bank]

If you are new to religious debate on the net there is plenty of contradiction in the NT. Rationalizing the contradictions by Christians is called apologeticS. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

If you go by Noah, being seen naked by his kid was an issue. From the Oxford bible commentary ancient Jews comsderd sex to be a sapping of strength in some ways. Pagan libertine sex would be abhorrent. They were obsessed with ritual clementines.

I expect like today Not all Jews were conservative.

At best nakedness in the context of your passage is probably a moral metaphor. There is no way to know what the story meant to readers in the culture of the day.

 

[1Heidegger1!]

If you are new to religious debate on the net there is plenty of contradiction in the NT. Rationalizing the contradictions by Christians is called apologeticS. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

If you go by Noah, being seen naked by his kid was an issue. From the Oxford bible commentary ancient Jews comsderd sex to be a sapping of strength in some ways. Pagan libertine sex would be abhorrent. They were obsessed with ritual clementines.

I expect like today Not all Jews were conservative.

At best nakedness in the context of your passage is probably a moral metaphor. There is no way to know what the story meant to readers in the culture of the day.

It's interesting Mark makes a point of saying it was a young man

 

[Politesse]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

You say that you know this, and yet you make very sweeping, confident, and innaccurate declarations of "what the Bible says".

 

[rousseau]

'God-Jesus loves everybody' is a modern liberal Christian invention. Christianity has never been tolerant of differences.

People have never been tolerant of differences, in Christianity we see this in-built tendency expressed and institutionalized.

IOW, homophobic people are the architects of Christianity, Christianity is just the result.

 

[TomC]

If you are new to religious debate on the net there is plenty of contradiction in the NT. Rationalizing the contradictions by Christians is called apologeticS. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

If you go by Noah, being seen naked by his kid was an issue. From the Oxford bible commentary ancient Jews comsderd sex to be a sapping of strength in some ways. Pagan libertine sex would be abhorrent. They were obsessed with ritual clementines.

I expect like today Not all Jews were conservative.

At best nakedness in the context of your passage is probably a moral metaphor. There is no way to know what the story meant to readers in the culture of the day.

It's interesting Mark makes a point of saying it was a young man

Mark, or whoever wrote that story, didn't use the term "young man". It's not possible.

It's the modern translation of something. Probably, the modern translation of some old English term, which was a translation of some Greek term, that was a translation of what the author of "Mark" thought happened...

The term "young man" would have been gibberish to the audience of the Gospel.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

If you are new to religious debate on the net there is plenty of contradiction in the NT. Rationalizing the contradictions by Christians is called apologeticS. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

If you go by Noah, being seen naked by his kid was an issue. From the Oxford bible commentary ancient Jews comsderd sex to be a sapping of strength in some ways. Pagan libertine sex would be abhorrent. They were obsessed with ritual clementines.

I expect like today Not all Jews were conservative.

At best nakedness in the context of your passage is probably a moral metaphor. There is no way to know what the story meant to readers in the culture of the day.

It's interesting Mark makes a point of saying it was a young man

Are you trying to infer homosexuality? I remember gays in the 60s 70s claimed Jesus was gay. There may have been a book.

It is inescapable that personal bias enters into interpret ion, Jesus becomes a reflection of individual delivers. As does god. OT god was mean and vengeful demanding absolute abeyance to modern liberal Christianity where god-Jesus loves and accepts all.


Given Leviticus, Jewish Israel led the USA in gay rights and marriage. It may have changed, in Israel there are no secular state marriages, it is left up to religions. If gays were married outside of Israel they were acepted as married with all benefits.

Forget the bible. The question is what we should do today in terms of modern sensibilities. Christians themselves up in kots trying to fit everything into the bible.
.

 

[Politesse]

If you are new to religious debate on the net there is plenty of contradiction in the NT. Rationalizing the contradictions by Christians is called apologeticS. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find any consistent messaging in the New Testament.

If you go by Noah, being seen naked by his kid was an issue. From the Oxford bible commentary ancient Jews comsderd sex to be a sapping of strength in some ways. Pagan libertine sex would be abhorrent. They were obsessed with ritual clementines.

I expect like today Not all Jews were conservative.

At best nakedness in the context of your passage is probably a moral metaphor. There is no way to know what the story meant to readers in the culture of the day.

It's interesting Mark makes a point of saying it was a young man

Mark, or whoever wrote that story, didn't use the term "young man". It's not possible.

It's the modern translation of something. Probably, the modern translation of some old English term, which was a translation of some Greek term, that was a translation of what the author of "Mark" thought happened...

The term "young man" would have been gibberish to the audience of the Gospel.
Tom

The word in question is νεανισκος. In Greek society "neaniskos" (literally, a "sapling") was a young man in the prime of life, often applied to people who were of age but not yet parents, such as soldiers on their term of duty. Not as young as a "kouros", a truly young adolescent, but neither a term you would use for a fully established adult with his own household. The rich young man also addressed by Jesus in Mark 10 is also described as νεανισκος, which has led some to postulate that they are meant to be the same character, the rich νεανισκος now divested of his title, possessions, and finally even his clothes after the advice of Jesus belatedly hit home.

 

[FwL]

I once had a conversation with an elderly, Pentecostal Christian, neighbor who waxed nostalgic for the days when her husband, a retired police officer, was allowed to arrest homosexuals.