LGBTQ Derail Discussion From "Do Democrats Realize..."

[Patooka]

The left. You guys are a pack of Edited.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

There is nothing wrong with it, so long as you like being Edited.

Moderator Note: Thread was split from here

 

[Rhea]

The left. You guys are a pack of edited.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

So... FYI; typically one is proud of something that takes some effort.
Think about that. Are you “proud” to be able to walk and speak? No, not really. You’re glad you can, but what is there to be “proud” of? Unless you fought back through rehab from a condition or injury that made it difficult, you’re just a douchebag if you walk around telling people in wheelchairs that you’re proud of being able to walk.


I assume you can go from here on why being “proud” to be straight or “proud” to be white is not comparable to having pride days for something that has historically been a struggle even to the point of death in this nation.

Unless you’re a douchebag, in which case you may not get it.

 

[marc]

A little helpful in understanding 'Pride'

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/hMT3ZYcAlic[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Keith&Co.]

The left. You guys are a pack of edited.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

There is nothing wrong with it, so long as you like being Edited

Well, after slavery, lynching, Jim Crow, institutional racism, 'colored bathrooms' and all the fun stuff heaped upon blacks for years and years and years, someone standing up and saying despite that, I am proud to be black, I won't let you define me as a lesser being, that's bravery.

After being the ones shitting on blacks for all that time, though, white people trying to have a white pride month is just pathetic. No one's lynching whites, or shipping them off to the plantain plantations overseas, or making them use the whites-only line at airport security. So screaming for an equal opportunity to rise above victimhood just draws attention to... To what? What is the discrimination whites need to respond to?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The left. You guys are a pack of edited.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

Personally, I don't believe anyone should be proud of their sexuality--one should be proud of accomplishments, not simply what you are.

However, the issue isn't being proud, the issue is bashing. Your gender and sexuality are only relevant at the point that someone is considering you in a romantic context. Otherwise, you're just a person. I don't care who you're sleeping with, I don't care if your gender matches the bits you were issued. I don't even care if you were issued a consistent set of bits.

 

[Half-Life]

Here's an article by Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48224/walsh-if-straight-pride-parade-stupid-so-gay-pride-matt-walsh

"WALSH: If A Straight Pride Parade Is Stupid, So Is A Gay Pride Parade"

"It is argued that the real purpose of a gay pride parade is to resist and protest the persecution of homosexuals. Heterosexuals are not persecuted for being heterosexuals, so the argument goes, and therefore a heterosexual pride parade is pointless. But if that's the point of a pride parade, then why do they call it a pride parade? If it's really a protest, then call it a protest, or a rally, or a demonstration. And in that case, why do they hold these "protests" in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles, rather than Tehran or Riyadh? It seems that these pride parades are held in precisely the places where gays are not persecuted."

"The double standard becomes even more pronounced when you take into account the whole buffet of sexual orientations that have now attached themselves like barnacles to the broader LGBT ship. Gay men and lesbian women aren't the only ones celebrating pride at a pride parade. There are also bisexuals and transsexuals and pansexuals and asexuals and greysexuals and demisexuals and the genderfluid and the gender-questioning. Is it reasonable to say that all of these people can and should publicly declare their pride — but not heterosexuals?

By the way, when was the last time a pansexual was persecuted? I wouldn't know how to persecute one if I wanted to. No, again, this has nothing to do with persecution. This is about boasting of your sex life. Why, then, can't straight people boast?"

 

[Half-Life]

The left. You guys are a pack of edited.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

Personally, I don't believe anyone should be proud of their sexuality--one should be proud of accomplishments, not simply what you are.

However, the issue isn't being proud, the issue is bashing. Your gender and sexuality are only relevant at the point that someone is considering you in a romantic context. Otherwise, you're just a person. I don't care who you're sleeping with, I don't care if your gender matches the bits you were issued. I don't even care if you were issued a consistent set of bits.

So it seems like you agree that there shouldn't be a pride parade. Great point in the article I linked to how the pride parades only happen in places where gays are not persecuted. Seems like a backwards way to get the message across. It would be better if they did these parades in Muslim countries.

 

[Patooka]

Here's an article by Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48224/walsh-if-straight-pride-parade-stupid-so-gay-pride-matt-walsh

"WALSH: If A Straight Pride Parade Is Stupid, So Is A Gay Pride Parade"

"It is argued that the real purpose of a gay pride parade is to resist and protest the persecution of homosexuals. Heterosexuals are not persecuted for being heterosexuals, so the argument goes, and therefore a heterosexual pride parade is pointless. But if that's the point of a pride parade, then why do they call it a pride parade? If it's really a protest, then call it a protest, or a rally, or a demonstration. And in that case, why do they hold these "protests" in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles, rather than Tehran or Riyadh? It seems that these pride parades are held in precisely the places where gays are not persecuted."

"The double standard becomes even more pronounced when you take into account the whole buffet of sexual orientations that have now attached themselves like barnacles to the broader LGBT ship. Gay men and lesbian women aren't the only ones celebrating pride at a pride parade. There are also bisexuals and transsexuals and pansexuals and asexuals and greysexuals and demisexuals and the genderfluid and the gender-questioning. Is it reasonable to say that all of these people can and should publicly declare their pride — but not heterosexuals?

By the way, when was the last time a pansexual was persecuted? I wouldn't know how to persecute one if I wanted to. No, again, this has nothing to do with persecution. This is about boasting of your sex life. Why, then, can't straight people boast?"

The Daily Wire is a bigoted site that spews hate towards leftist and non-christians. Why should I bother reading a site that censors leftists?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's an article by Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48224/walsh-if-straight-pride-parade-stupid-so-gay-pride-matt-walsh

"WALSH: If A Straight Pride Parade Is Stupid, So Is A Gay Pride Parade"

"It is argued that the real purpose of a gay pride parade is to resist and protest the persecution of homosexuals. Heterosexuals are not persecuted for being heterosexuals, so the argument goes, and therefore a heterosexual pride parade is pointless. But if that's the point of a pride parade, then why do they call it a pride parade? If it's really a protest, then call it a protest, or a rally, or a demonstration. And in that case, why do they hold these "protests" in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles, rather than Tehran or Riyadh? It seems that these pride parades are held in precisely the places where gays are not persecuted."

"The double standard becomes even more pronounced when you take into account the whole buffet of sexual orientations that have now attached themselves like barnacles to the broader LGBT ship. Gay men and lesbian women aren't the only ones celebrating pride at a pride parade. There are also bisexuals and transsexuals and pansexuals and asexuals and greysexuals and demisexuals and the genderfluid and the gender-questioning. Is it reasonable to say that all of these people can and should publicly declare their pride — but not heterosexuals?

By the way, when was the last time a pansexual was persecuted? I wouldn't know how to persecute one if I wanted to. No, again, this has nothing to do with persecution. This is about boasting of your sex life. Why, then, can't straight people boast?"

They're not persecuted to nearly the same degree here as there. That doesn't mean they aren't persecuted.

 

[Bomb#20]

you might want to think about whether it's a good idea to repeat shrink-wrapped trumped-up ad hominems against them. How hard can that be?

Oh, so there were no places where the three restrooms were men, women and colored? That's trumped up?

When the police's only evidence against a defendant is the murder weapon they planted on him, the circumstance that they used an actual murder weapon from an actual murder doesn't make it not a trumped-up charge.

Or can you actually point out any of the white people trying to have a white pride month who actually did any of the things you just accused them of?

Oooooh. I see where you're coming from.
But then, rather than that, wouldn't it make more sense for the whites who feel a need to have a pride month, shouldn't THEY justify what it is they're in need of a 'pride' celebration for?

Don't ask me; I'm not the one who wants a pride month. I'm just the one asking you to please stop giving them a reason to feel they need one.

Do you have any evidence that Half-Life, or any of the other white people trying to have a white pride month etc., in point of fact enslaved anyone, lynched anyone, enacted Jim Crow laws, instituted institutional racism, or made anybody use "colored bathrooms"? You can't? Then don't say they did.

Never said they did.

What exactly is it that you think the word "being" means? You're evidently talking about current white people since you're referring to white people "trying to have a white pride month", and you explicitly claimed that they were doing this "after being" the people who were defecating on blacks for all that time. You literally asserted that the people currently offending you with their color pride and the people who heaped all the fun stuff upon blacks for years and years and years were the same people.

Now, I get that that was just artistic license on your part and there was no risk anyone would believe the accusation on your mere say-so. But that isn't the point. The point is that if you had skipped the artistically licensed falsehood and instead gone with the truthful "Being the same color as the entirely different people who crapped on blacks for all that time, though, white people trying to have a white pride month is just pathetic.", your argument would no longer have had any superficial plausibility. When your argument depends for its persuasive power on a premise you know is false, it's pious fraud.

The only oppression I see being inflicted on straight whites is that they're not allowed to discriminate against others right now.

Look closer. In a mirror. You microaggressed once by falsely accusing them of defecating on blacks. And when they take exception to being microaggressed against and stand up and say despite that, "I am proud to be white", you add a second microaggression to the first by insinuating that their real motive for taking exception is that they want to defecate on blacks.

So let's explore this one step further. You indicated you're okay with "someone standing up and saying despite that, I am proud to be black". Well, why are you okay with that? Why don't you instead say "After being the ones murdering half a million Tutsis in Rwanda, though, black people trying to have a black pride month is just pathetic."? Presumably, you don't say that because you recognize that it would be ridiculous to lay the crimes of one set of black people at the door of a completely different set of black people. What some Rwandan Hutus did has no bearing on what it's pathetic for black people to stand up and say.

But to you it evidently doesn't work that way with white people. You don't find it ridiculous to lay the crimes of one set of white people at the door of a completely different set of white people. By making that racial distinction, you are thereby implying being white taints people with collective guilt: when you in effect argue that what Jefferson Davis did has a bearing on what it's pathetic for white people to stand up and say even though what Jean Kambanda did has no bearing on what it's pathetic for black people to stand up and say, you are de facto accusing white people of being collectively guilty. But we aren't collectively guilty. Collective guilt isn't a real thing. So you are making a racial false accusation. Making false accusations against races is a species of oppression.

So, so fragile.

That's an ad hominem argument. When you're in the wrong, belittling the people who object to your wrongdoing does not magically make you in the right.

Keith: Some Whites Did Bad Things.
Other whites: HEY! You stop talking <expletive deleted> about my mother!

Can you point out where you said Half-Life's mother was pathetic and was so so fragile and was complaining because she's not allowed to discriminate against others right now?

 

[Bomb#20]

You know, if you object to the white people trying to have a white pride month screaming for an equal opportunity to rise above victimhood, and would rather they not do it,

I dunno if I'd rather they not do it.[My bold - b20] They just look so frightened. Like the Christains who are stopped from discriminating against gays, and claim that THAT discriminates against them. They're just so fragile.

Here's an article by Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire:
... Why, then, can't straight people boast?"

Because it's exactly what leftists want them to do. When people respond to the left's double standards and hypocrisy about identity politics by engaging in equal-and-opposite-reaction identity politics, they're being manipulated by the left into playing into the left's hands. Don't be suckers.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

Personally, I don't believe anyone should be proud of their sexuality--one should be proud of accomplishments, not simply what you are.

The optimal response to the left's double standards and hypocrisy about identity politics is ^^^^ that ^^^^.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Can you point out where you said Half-Life's mother was pathetic and was so so fragile and was complaining because she's not allowed to discriminate against others right now?

Apparently you read a LOT into other people's posts. I cannot even follow half of your replies.

Possibly, you're confused by the use of 'you' in the same manner Americans regularly use 'they,' a hypothetical pronoun. Sorry if i was unclear.
But you just completely miss the entire point of my closing. I just can't even, in this conversation.

Pride Months, Pride Marches, are internally oriented. Not attacks. Staight White efforts to show their pride appear, to me at least, as defensive, fear-sparked flails.
And they look silly.

 

[laughing dog]

Don't ask me; I'm not the one who wants a pride month. I'm just the one asking you to please stop giving them a reason to feel they need one.

"White" pride has been around for decades. The snowflakes who feel the need for a white pride month felt the need already.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Here's an article by Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire:
... Why, then, can't straight people boast?"

Because it's exactly what leftists want them to do. When people respond to the left's double standards and hypocrisy about identity politics by engaging in equal-and-opposite-reaction identity politics, they're being manipulated by the left into playing into the left's hands. Don't be suckers.

Are you suggesting that if you are LGBTQ you can have pride in that, but if you are straight you can't be proud of that? Why can't EVERYONE be proud of their sexuality?

Now we're back to being racist for being proud to be white, but not racist for being proud to be black.

Personally, I don't believe anyone should be proud of their sexuality--one should be proud of accomplishments, not simply what you are.

The optimal response to the left's double standards and hypocrisy about identity politics is ^^^^ that ^^^^.

Thirded. It is the only response that makes actual sense.

"Gay pride" makes sense only insofar as it is actually a statement of gay not-shame, rather than actually of being proud.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Thirded. It is the only response that makes actual sense.

"Gay pride" makes sense only insofar as it is actually a statement of gay not-shame, rather than actually of being proud.

I have been reading comments on LGBTQ videos and most people say stuff like, "Why does it have to be shoved down our throats on TV, in commercials, etc.? It's like they are pandering to the gays. Even gay people are getting fed up with being pandered to. Children are being encouraged to march in pride parades and being dressed in drag. This is child abuse, plain and simple."

Who is shoving it down your throats any more than straightness is?

When my wife and I are out I typically walk with my hand on her shoulder (yeah, it would normally be lower down--given our height difference that is awkward for us.) That's as much a proclamation of heterosexuality as most of what you see from gay people proclaiming homosexuality. (Yeah, protest marches will be more blatant but I'm talking about what typically happens in life.)

(And given the reaction to my position I've gotten before, let me clarify something: I'm 100% totally straight, enough so that I prefer porn without cocks. I am, however, in an inter-racial marriage. This was permitted in every state at the time we married--but look back in time the length of our marriage and there were states it still wouldn't have been permitted. Cohabitation was not an option as she was not a citizen or permanent resident--our only options were marrying or splitting up. Thus I have great sympathy for those not permitted to marry the one they love.)

 

[Keith&Co.]

Who is shoving it down your throats any more than straightness is?

Or cars?
That's probably a better comparison. When i am shopping for a car, car ads are EVERYWHERE! Every commercial break, every other page of a magazine, half the daily paper, and at the doctor's office, a consumer's report, auto issue, is on top of the stack.
Cars, cars, cars, cars, cars...
When i buy a car, say a Honda CRV, half the car ads for the next month are for CRVs. Everywhere i look. That tapers off a bit after 4-5 weeks.
The industry stops flagging ads for my attention and return to the background. Until 8 years later, when i start thinking about a new car....then they flip the switch on the ad attack..

Or, maybe I'm just sensitive, and zeroing in on ads that never really change in frequency.

So i suspect that it is HalfLife who is shoving gay characters down his own throat, seeing them in film, television, adverts, under his bed, creeping thru the back yard....
We could probably watch the same movie, and at the end he will have seen five gay characters, i'll have seen inly one.... The guy driving the CRV to the Pride event.

 

[bilby]

Who is shoving it down your throats any more than straightness is?

Or cars?
That's probably a better comparison. When i am shopping for a car, car ads are EVERYWHERE! Every commercial break, every other page of a magazine, half the daily paper, and at the doctor's office, a consumer's report, auto issue, is on top of the stack.
Cars, cars, cars, cars, cars...
When i buy a car, say a Honda CRV, half the car ads for the next month are for CRVs. Everywhere i look. That tapers off a bit after 4-5 weeks.
The industry stops flagging ads for my attention and return to the background. Until 8 years later, when i start thinking about a new car....then they flip the switch on the ad attack..

Or, maybe I'm just sensitive, and zeroing in on ads that never really change in frequency.

So i suspect that it is HalfLife who is shoving gay characters down his own throat, seeing them in film, television, adverts, under his bed, creeping thru the back yard....
We could probably watch the same movie, and at the end he will have seen five gay characters, i'll have seen inly one.... The guy driving the CRV to the Pride event.

Funny you should say that; I was only the other day reading an article about the Baader-Meinhof Effect.

 

[Patooka]

Thirded. It is the only response that makes actual sense.

"Gay pride" makes sense only insofar as it is actually a statement of gay not-shame, rather than actually of being proud.

I have been reading comments on LGBTQ videos and most people say stuff like, "Why does it have to be shoved down our throats on TV, in commercials, etc.?

Must...resist...urge...oh fuck...it's soo hard....

EDIT: Nope, can't do it. Tell me, what would you prefer to be shoved down your throat? What would you like? I think you are protesting a bit too much.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thirded. It is the only response that makes actual sense.

"Gay pride" makes sense only insofar as it is actually a statement of gay not-shame, rather than actually of being proud.

I have been reading comments on LGBTQ videos and most people say stuff like, "Why does it have to be shoved down our throats on TV, in commercials, etc.? It's like they are pandering to the gays. Even gay people are getting fed up with being pandered to. Children are being encouraged to march in pride parades and being dressed in drag. This is child abuse, plain and simple."

Half-Life. I hope you realize that this LGBTQ discussion is a massive derail from the OP. I have started discussion in the staff room on your penchant for derailing discussions. This is a very clear rule violation. I suggest you tread carefully in the future.

ZiprHead
Administrator

 

[Ford]

Thirded. It is the only response that makes actual sense.

"Gay pride" makes sense only insofar as it is actually a statement of gay not-shame, rather than actually of being proud.

I have been reading comments on LGBTQ videos and most people say stuff like, "Why does it have to be shoved down our throats on TV, in commercials, etc.?

Must...resist...urge...oh fuck...it's soo hard....

EDIT: Nope, can't do it. Tell me, what would you prefer to be shoved down your throat? What would you like? I think you are protesting a bit too much.

This accusation came up last night on another forum. When I asked how it was being "shoved down their throat" someone responded about all the representations of gays on television. I responded that most if not all televisions have buttons which allow you to change the channel or even turn the whole thing off. I got no response.