Liberals against democracy

[DrZoidberg]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38374749

This is very worrying. First Trump wins who obviously doesn't understand how or why democracy works. And then you've got this. Large numbers of people demonstrating against the system doing what it should. So they're also clearly against democracy.

It seems to me that less than the majority of Americans are for democracy. Considering USA is the world's second biggest democracy, this is very worrying.

Thoughts? Will it get crazier before it gets better?

 

[Harry Bosch]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38374749

This is very worrying. First Trump wins who obviously doesn't understand how or why democracy works. And then you've got this. Large numbers of people demonstrating against the system doing what it should. So they're also clearly against democracy.

It seems to me that less than the majority of Americans are for democracy. Considering USA is the world's second biggest democracy, this is very worrying.

Thoughts? Will it get crazier before it gets better?

I don't consider the US to be a democracy. All facets of the US government is controlled by a minority party. Republicans are the minority party. There are fewer republicans than dems. Fewer republicans voted than dems. And yet reps rule every branch of the government.

 

[iolo]

I suppose what we have is a sort of 'guided' democracy, where any attempt to get what people actually want has to be passed through a weird series of filters organised by the likes of Mr Murdoch and other very rich persons, who are intent on looking after their own wealth and the system that protects it, with the result that some of the officially-democratic results are quite spectacularly silly. This is fuelling a distrust of democracy, whereas it should be making as look at what is actually happening under the name.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Most of us are fully aware that we live in an congressional-military-corporate-oligarchy. It's just that it is no longer willing to hide in the shadows.

Also, the Electoral College is made up of party hacks. They won't go against the party line.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The united States is not and has never been a democracy. That is just a myth your people are fed to keep them from revolution.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They should dump Trump Vodka into the harbor to protest this. Also because it would mean that less people would then be drinking Trump Vodka, which is always a plus.

 

[abaddon]

Demonstrating against the stupid system that prevented a democratic vote is to be “against democracy”?

It’s a protest against a person, not “against democracy”. Which would be right if the person being protested were a horrible person. Which happens to be the case.

And anyway, is there a good reason other than the magic word "democracy" that every individual should roll over and accept whatever "the majority" is alleged to want?

 

[funinspace]

Demonstrating against the stupid system that prevented a democratic vote is to be “against democracy”?

It’s a protest against a person, not “against democracy”. Which would be right if the person being protested were a horrible person. Which happens to be the case.

And anyway, is there a good reason other than the magic word "democracy" that every individual should roll over and accept whatever "the majority" is alleged to want?

^Yep.

"Will things get crazier?" I wouldn't bet against it, as some of those 'angry white people' that voted for Trump might slowly recognize that they have been had. Of course FFvC could also do the crazy and actually disengage from world domination games or start trade wars... Though the Billionaire cabinet suggests a more smooth sailing, albeit with a strong screw the working class tilt.

 

[Elixir]

They should dump Trump Vodka into the harbor to protest this. Also because it would mean that less people would then be drinking Trump Vodka, which is always a plus.

Such callous disregard for the welfare of fishes is symptomatic of the coming apocalypse.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

They should dump Trump Vodka into the harbor to protest this. Also because it would mean that less people would then be drinking Trump Vodka, which is always a plus.

Nobody here drinks Trump Vodka. It must be a Canadian thing.

 

[KeepTalking]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38374749

This is very worrying. First Trump wins who obviously doesn't understand how or why democracy works. And then you've got this. Large numbers of people demonstrating against the system doing what it should. So they're also clearly against democracy.

It seems to me that less than the majority of Americans are for democracy. Considering USA is the world's second biggest democracy, this is very worrying.

Thoughts? Will it get crazier before it gets better?

As others have noted, the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic wrapped in a Democratic illusion. The illusion has finally been shattered for many of those who still thought it was a Democracy. As a result, those people are now demonstrating against the system, which they previously thought was a Democracy, as well as the insufferable pig that the system installed in the highest office of the land against the will of the majority.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They should dump Trump Vodka into the harbor to protest this. Also because it would mean that less people would then be drinking Trump Vodka, which is always a plus.

Nobody here drinks Trump Vodka. It must be a Canadian thing.

Nobody here drinks it either. It exists, however, so it must be on a shelf somewhere. Given that it's not going to be taken off that shelf in order to be consumed, one may as well get some use out of it.

 

[funinspace]

Nobody here drinks Trump Vodka. It must be a Canadian thing.

Nobody here drinks it either. It exists, however, so it must be on a shelf somewhere. Given that it's not going to be taken off that shelf in order to be consumed, one may as well get some use out of it.

I'm pretty sure the White Russian is the official drink of the alt-reality crowd in the US...so it must be getting drunk somewhere.

 

[Jayjay]

They should dump Trump Vodka into the harbor to protest this. Also because it would mean that less people would then be drinking Trump Vodka, which is always a plus.

Nobody here drinks Trump Vodka. It must be a Canadian thing.

Or Siberian, even they are calling it "bath lotion".

 

[laughing dog]

Will it get crazier before it gets better?

Oh, I think we will look back and think these are the sane times.

 

[DrZoidberg]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38374749

This is very worrying. First Trump wins who obviously doesn't understand how or why democracy works. And then you've got this. Large numbers of people demonstrating against the system doing what it should. So they're also clearly against democracy.

It seems to me that less than the majority of Americans are for democracy. Considering USA is the world's second biggest democracy, this is very worrying.

Thoughts? Will it get crazier before it gets better?

As others have noted, the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic wrapped in a Democratic illusion. The illusion has finally been shattered for many of those who still thought it was a Democracy. As a result, those people are now demonstrating against the system, which they previously thought was a Democracy, as well as the insufferable pig that the system installed in the highest office of the land against the will of the majority.

Nah, you're wrong. USA is a democracy. It's a very healthy democracy. It follows all the rules and definitions. The electoral collage doesn't make it less of a democracy. So far the electoral collage have followed the spirit of the constitution. So that's a non-issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

The fact that your candidate doesn't win isn't evidence that the democracy isn't working. A well functioning democracy doesn't mean that voters are intelligent or well read. It just means that citizens feel empowered and have political opinions that they feel they can express freely. Public opinion actually matters in informing policy. All this is evidently true. Still.

You also seem to have bad grasp of how and why a democracy works. Which also is worrying since you're supposed to be a rationalist.

I'm just worried that USA will at some point stop being democratic because it gets pissed away by ignorant citizens who don't understand how it works. After all Trump is elected to represent a democracy, and he clearly doesn't value any of the democratic ideals. He has shown contempt for the democratic process and it's institutions. And that's the guy Americans chose to represent them.

 

[Axulus]

As others have noted, the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic wrapped in a Democratic illusion. The illusion has finally been shattered for many of those who still thought it was a Democracy. As a result, those people are now demonstrating against the system, which they previously thought was a Democracy, as well as the insufferable pig that the system installed in the highest office of the land against the will of the majority.

Nah, you're wrong. USA is a democracy. It's a very healthy democracy. It follows all the rules and definitions. The electoral collage doesn't make it less of a democracy. So far the electoral collage have followed the spirit of the constitution. So that's a non-issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

The fact that your candidate doesn't win isn't evidence that the democracy isn't working. A well functioning democracy doesn't mean that voters are intelligent or well read. It just means that citizens feel empowered and have political opinions that they feel they can express freely. Public opinion actually matters in informing policy. All this is evidently true. Still.

You also seem to have bad grasp of how and why a democracy works. Which also is worrying since you're supposed to be a rationalist.

I'm just worried that USA will at some point stop being democratic because it gets pissed away by ignorant citizens who don't understand how it works. After all Trump is elected to represent a democracy, and he clearly doesn't value any of the democratic ideals. He has shown contempt for the democratic process and it's institutions. And that's the guy Americans chose to represent them.

Agreed. The fact that the make-up of the federal government isn't determined strictly by majority vote doesn't disqualify it from being under the category of a liberal democracy. Those who claim we are an oligarchy and not a democracy will have fewer qualms when the institutions that form the democracy are dismantled. The prevalence of the "burn it down" mentality on the right and the whole "the US is an oligarchy under control of corporations/globalist interests" mentality on both the left and populist right is extremely worrying. Trust in the free media is at an all time low, trust in the election process is at an all time low, trust in the government is also very low.

We are not very far away from a majority willing to adopt something other than liberal democracy because, for some bizzare reason, they think "the establishment", which is an unsurprising outcome of liberal democracy, is so horrible.

Additionally, more than ever before, truth and facts themselves are becoming partisian.

We are seeing an erosion of the institutions of liberal democracy the likes I never could have imagined.

 

[Smoker]

I think Trump is going to make so many idiotic statements, and piss so many people off, in the next four years. All the other countries will start hating us even more than they already do for electing this racist jackass to lead us. He's already starting problems with China and he doesn't even have any executive power yet.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think Trump is going to make so many idiotic statements, and piss so many people off, in the next four years. All the other countries will start hating us even more than they already do for electing this racist jackass to lead us. He's already starting problems with China and he doesn't even have any executive power yet.

But he can't be worse than George Bush jr. That guy did a stellar job of being the Bowerick Wowbagger of Earth. The rest of the world is already accustomed to idiot American presidents. If you look at the roster of presidents it's only a tiny minority that had any talent for foreign diplomacy. And Obama has been exceptionally good at it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

As others have noted, the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic wrapped in a Democratic illusion. The illusion has finally been shattered for many of those who still thought it was a Democracy. As a result, those people are now demonstrating against the system, which they previously thought was a Democracy, as well as the insufferable pig that the system installed in the highest office of the land against the will of the majority.

Nah, you're wrong. USA is a democracy. It's a very healthy democracy. It follows all the rules and definitions. The electoral collage doesn't make it less of a democracy. So far the electoral collage have followed the spirit of the constitution. So that's a non-issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

The fact that your candidate doesn't win isn't evidence that the democracy isn't working. A well functioning democracy doesn't mean that voters are intelligent or well read. It just means that citizens feel empowered and have political opinions that they feel they can express freely. Public opinion actually matters in informing policy. All this is evidently true. Still.

You also seem to have bad grasp of how and why a democracy works. Which also is worrying since you're supposed to be a rationalist.

I'm just worried that USA will at some point stop being democratic because it gets pissed away by ignorant citizens who don't understand how it works. After all Trump is elected to represent a democracy, and he clearly doesn't value any of the democratic ideals. He has shown contempt for the democratic process and it's institutions. And that's the guy Americans chose to represent them.

No, we don't have a democracy in the US. The Electoral College, inability to appoint democratic supreme court judges, gerrymandering, weakening of minority power in the house, increasing presidential power, hanging chads and etc. have allowed a party with less popular votes (the republicans) to completely control the US. The republicans control every single branch of the US government.