London has overtaken New York in homicides for 2018

[EvoUK]

LONDON -- A surge of stabbings in London was blamed Monday for the city overtaking New York's monthly murder tally for the first time in modern history. Fifteen people were murdered in London during February, compared to 14 in New York, according to police figures.

The British capital also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in New York. There have been 10 fatal stabbings in London in the last 19 days, following on from the 80 fatal stabbings recorded in the city last year.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/

Well, this is interesting, especially given the heightened debate in the US regarding gun control reducing deaths & injuries- as has been pointed out to me several times by gun-nut colleagues on social media.

Two initial thoughts:

1) New York has experienced huge drops in homicide rates since the 90’s (they use the two cities not only because they’re a similar size, but also due to the ‘bad name’ New York earned itself during that period) which is to be applauded
2) a lot of this seems to be the obvious result of our Tory government drastically slashing back the police force (over 21,000 officers gone and counting) along with other austerity cuts to social care meaning that resources are stretched and resulting in a ‘perfect storm’

I haven’t seen this brought up in other threads yet, and thought it mildly worthy of comment in light of gun control arguments in the us- the uk obviously having strict gun regulations in comparison.

 

[untermensche]

The issue in the US is the number of people you could kill at a school or nightclub or concert with a knife.

Eliminating guns would probably lead to an increase in murders by knife in the US.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Also, New York is still beating out London for the number of murders this year.

 

[Underseer]

LONDON -- A surge of stabbings in London was blamed Monday for the city overtaking New York's monthly murder tally for the first time in modern history. Fifteen people were murdered in London during February, compared to 14 in New York, according to police figures.

The British capital also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in New York. There have been 10 fatal stabbings in London in the last 19 days, following on from the 80 fatal stabbings recorded in the city last year.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/

Well, this is interesting, especially given the heightened debate in the US regarding gun control reducing deaths & injuries- as has been pointed out to me several times by gun-nut colleagues on social media.

Two initial thoughts:

1) New York has experienced huge drops in homicide rates since the 90’s (they use the two cities not only because they’re a similar size, but also due to the ‘bad name’ New York earned itself during that period) which is to be applauded
2) a lot of this seems to be the obvious result of our Tory government drastically slashing back the police force (over 21,000 officers gone and counting) along with other austerity cuts to social care meaning that resources are stretched and resulting in a ‘perfect storm’

I haven’t seen this brought up in other threads yet, and thought it mildly worthy of comment in light of gun control arguments in the us- the uk obviously having strict gun regulations in comparison.

You're carefully cherry picking the data: two particular cities for one particular year.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[Copernicus]

I have to agree with Underseer's point here. It is not unusual to have outliers in trends, and we only have a couple of data points in this statistical comparison between two large cities. There are other large cities in the US and the UK, so an accurate picture would need to look at a much wider range of comparisons. But even comparing New York to London, London still comes out as far less dangerous.

Also, note that you are only comparing murder rates, not other types of gun-related violence--injuries that do not cause deaths, accidental shootings (vs accidental stabbings), suicides, armed robberies, menacing, etc.

 

[ronburgundy]

It is a meaningless statistical blip being used a clickbait.

The 2017 murder rate was nearly 3 times higher in NYC than London. 2 months does not make a trend. By the end of 2018, NYC will once again be way ahead of London in murder rate.

That said, the reason this statistic blip happened for the first time in many decades is because NYC has been at historic lows in homicides the past few years (around 300 per year). That makes the two murder rates close enough to allow for an occasional 1-2 month blip to have a reverse order.

But it is also because NYC is no longer (and has not been for decades) near the most violent US city, in fact it's around 70th in homicide rate, and even Chicago is only 25th. St. Louis has murder rate 11 times higher than London, as do numerous other US cities both large (Baltimore, Detriot, DC) and small (Chester PA, and Salisbury NC). There are hundreds of US cities with higher homicide rates than London.

IOW, yeah, the data continue to fully and completely support the "liberal" (aka scientific) conclusion that the legal availability of guns heavily contributes making the US far more murderous than the UK or almost all other developed democracies.

 

[Copernicus]

/mod

The moved posts can be found here.

 

[arkirk]

But of course, New York will out-murder even London. It is a simple matter of what could be described as the harvest of empire. It is just all the resentment and misery of our nations' many and several empire building operations finally blowing back. Instead of our leaders trying to make peace and cooperate with the United Nations and peace organizations, they (England and the U.S.) continue to aggravate the situation by supporting huge military machines. All of our national policies are thuggish and leave the remnants of the empire always just a little worse off than before. We have lost track of the fact the the U.S. got its wealth through conquest and murder of natives and taking control of lands with only selfish motives. Our police are installed to keep the goodies empire won, but that becomes ever more complicated as retribution follows retribution in an unending cycle of violence. A lot of white people shudder at the thought of brown and black people near them, never understanding the more than century long acquisitive violence that follows empire wherever it happens.

Here in San Antonio, we have the Alamo. Our idiot president sending troops to our border to defend against an unarmed invasion will resemble more and more the same kind of situation we see in Palestine because the conditions are aligning themselves for that to be the case. We have not matured as a nation and still have a militaristic approach to problems that can only be solved by mutual cooperation and planning.

 

[fast]

LONDON -- A surge of stabbings in London was blamed Monday for the city overtaking New York's monthly murder tally for the first time in modern history. Fifteen people were murdered in London during February, compared to 14 in New York, according to police figures.

The British capital also suffered 22 fatal stabbings and shootings in March, higher than the 21 in New York. There have been 10 fatal stabbings in London in the last 19 days, following on from the 80 fatal stabbings recorded in the city last year.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/

Well, this is interesting, especially given the heightened debate in the US regarding gun control reducing deaths & injuries- as has been pointed out to me several times by gun-nut colleagues on social media.

Two initial thoughts:

1) New York has experienced huge drops in homicide rates since the 90’s (they use the two cities not only because they’re a similar size, but also due to the ‘bad name’ New York earned itself during that period) which is to be applauded
2) a lot of this seems to be the obvious result of our Tory government drastically slashing back the police force (over 21,000 officers gone and counting) along with other austerity cuts to social care meaning that resources are stretched and resulting in a ‘perfect storm’

I haven’t seen this brought up in other threads yet, and thought it mildly worthy of comment in light of gun control arguments in the us- the uk obviously having strict gun regulations in comparison.

You're carefully cherry picking the data: two particular cities for one particular year.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

When you say "the plural of anecdote is not data," I'm pretty sure there is something you have in mind that is true, and whatever that is, I'd happily concede it is true for sake of argument on what would merely be a side-issue to what I have in mind at the moment.

We should not necessarily generalize that all people are medically obese (for instance) merely because we observe two different rooms of people that are all obese, but if we construct a sample (which so happens to include only obese people), then the facts collected are not merely facts but qualify as data as well; hence, not only would a single piece of data be data, but a plurality of collected facts would serve as data as well. That's not to say the experiment is good--there is a sampling error.

While I agree with your comment regarding cherry-picking, your follow up comment doesn't appear to hold--unless there's something going on with the implications of anecdotes I'm missing.

 

[Derec]

[delete]

 

[Tigers!]

I blame Corbyn.
He seems to get the blame for everything else.