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Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

Jimmy Higgins

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DOJ is going to appeal the order for a "Special Master". This should be interesting. :eating_popcorn:
Perhaps the DOJ could suggest a triumvirate, heavy on the Republicans.
Mike Pence and Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney would do just fine.
Tom
None of whom have clearance high enough to see some of the documents. Heck, VP Harris might not.

Artemus said:
DOJ is going to appeal the order for a "Special Master". This should be interesting. :eating_popcorn:
Pretty much have to. From the commentaries, it doesn't appear that many legal experts think the ruling holds any water.
 

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Another issue in this case:

(e) The United States District Court for the District of Columbia shall have jurisdiction over any action initiated by the former President asserting that a determination made by the Archivist violates the former President's rights or privileges.

So did this judge have any right to take on this case in the first place? Neal Katyal thinks no.
 

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cjonesrgb09092022.jpg
 

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DOJ is going to appeal the order for a "Special Master". This should be interesting. :eating_popcorn:
Perhaps the DOJ could suggest a triumvirate, heavy on the Republicans.
Mike Pence and Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney would do just fine.
Tom
None of whom have clearance high enough to see some of the documents. Heck, VP Harris might not.

Artemus said:
DOJ is going to appeal the order for a "Special Master". This should be interesting. :eating_popcorn:
Pretty much have to. From the commentaries, it doesn't appear that many legal experts think the ruling holds any water.
Don't worry, Trump comes armed with underwear for holding all the "water" that their arguments fail to catch.
I get the suspect stain on PillowFucker's pillow, but what's with the Kool-aid man?

Or is that supposed to be Trumpty Dumpty themselves?
 

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No link yet, but Lawrence O’Donnell reported that Judge Cannon is asking Trump’s lawyers to exclude those 100 classified documents from her special master order. Andrew Weissmann and Neal Katyal stated this was a sign that Judge Cannon is running up the white flag in response to the DOJ’s intention to appeal her decision to the Eleventh Court of Appeals. Both indicated that this was Cannon’s off ramp to her bonehead ruling to essentially allow Trump to dictate how he is to be investigated.

Also, all of O’Donnell’s panelist agreed that Judge Cannon had to be “schooled” in how intelligence work is done. In it’s filling to Judge Cannon, the DOJ made it plain that the FBI was BOTH a criminal investigation body and did intelligence work. In this particular case, there was no way to separate the two as this idiotic judge had ruled (you can do an investigation into national defense damage, but you couldn’t do anything with regards to criminal matters, according to Trump judge Cannon).

In fact, the FBI is the only domestic intelligence agency allowed by law.
 

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The Justice Department on Thursday reiterated a key point that has been made by federal investigators and the National Archives since the records agency opened an inquiry last year with Donald Trump about missing White House files: The documents that were seized from Mar-a-Lago "indisputably" belong to the government.

In its appeal to a federal judge's Monday ruling, which granted Trump's request for a special master to review thousands of documents taken from the Florida resort, the Justice Department requested a partial stay that could allow for an independent party to review some of the records without further impeding a criminal investigation.

Specifically, the agency hopes to continue sifting through a "discrete set of just over 100 documents" that have classified markings. The DOJ wrote that "those aspects of the Order will cause the most immediate and serious harms to the government and the public."

Prosecutors further stated: "A stay would simply allow the government to continue to review and use the same records — which, again, indisputably belong to the government, not Plaintiff — in its ongoing criminal investigation as well."

The DOJ stated in its appeal that the partial stay "would impose no cognizable harm" to Trump and "not disturb the special master's review of any other records, including any personal materials or records potentially subject to attorney-client privilege."
 

Jimmy Higgins

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No link yet, but Lawrence O’Donnell reported that Judge Cannon is asking Trump’s lawyers to exclude those 100 classified documents from her special master order. Andrew Weissmann and Neal Katyal stated this was a sign that Judge Cannon is running up the white flag in response to the DOJ’s intention to appeal her decision to the Eleventh Court of Appeals. Both indicated that this was Cannon’s off ramp to her bonehead ruling to essentially allow Trump to dictate how he is to be investigated.

Also, all of O’Donnell’s panelist agreed that Judge Cannon had to be “schooled” in how intelligence work is done. In it’s filling to Judge Cannon, the DOJ made it plain that the FBI was BOTH a criminal investigation body and did intelligence work. In this particular case, there was no way to separate the two as this idiotic judge had ruled (you can do an investigation into national defense damage, but you couldn’t do anything with regards to criminal matters, according to Trump judge Cannon).

In fact, the FBI is the only domestic intelligence agency allowed by law.
That is interesting... because isn't a "special master" allegedly needed to say, 'yup, that is classfied'?

This is a desperate face change, as now she is allegedly saying she trusts the Government to tell what is classified, not what is privileged. That seems a hard hill to stand on.
 

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I get the suspect stain on PillowFucker's pillow, but what's with the Kool-aid man?

Or is that supposed to be Trumpty Dumpty themselves?
I think it represents the collective that have "drunk the Kool-Aid."
 
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Jimmy Higgins

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Isn't it cute... the hearts on Truth Social... 7.42k. On Twitter they used to be much higher. It'd be nice if people stopped advertising the dolt's messages on his personal social media platform.
 

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No link yet, but Lawrence O’Donnell reported that Judge Cannon is asking Trump’s lawyers to exclude those 100 classified documents from her special master order. Andrew Weissmann and Neal Katyal stated this was a sign that Judge Cannon is running up the white flag in response to the DOJ’s intention to appeal her decision to the Eleventh Court of Appeals. Both indicated that this was Cannon’s off ramp to her bonehead ruling to essentially allow Trump to dictate how he is to be investigated.

Also, all of O’Donnell’s panelist agreed that Judge Cannon had to be “schooled” in how intelligence work is done. In it’s filling to Judge Cannon, the DOJ made it plain that the FBI was BOTH a criminal investigation body and did intelligence work. In this particular case, there was no way to separate the two as this idiotic judge had ruled (you can do an investigation into national defense damage, but you couldn’t do anything with regards to criminal matters, according to Trump judge Cannon).

In fact, the FBI is the only domestic intelligence agency allowed by law.
Lawfare has a rather blistering critique to include, she is out of her depth when it comes to intel.
Everything Wrong With Judge Cannon’s Ruling
 

ZiprHead

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Lawfare has a rather blistering critique to include, she is out of her depth when it comes to intel.
Everything Wrong With Judge Cannon’s Ruling
Unsurprising considering the only qualities she needed to become a judge under Trump were to be young, a Trumper, and be a member of the Federalist society. And she was appointed by McConnell after Trump lost the election. So much for McConnell's ethics.
 

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If the shoe was on the other foot there would be an armed mob outside Cannon’s house, doxing, death threats by text and email, and bodyguards 24/7.
 

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Thomas Griffith, DOJ nominee​

Thomas Griffith, a retired federal judge and George W. Bush appointee, served on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals from 2005 to 2020. In one of his final major rulings before retiring, he wrote the majority opinion rejecting House Democrats’ attempt to subpoena Trump’s former White House Counsel Don McGahn. (The decision was later overturned.)

In the years since his retirement, Griffith co-authored a report alongside other prominent conservative lawyers and officials debunking Trump’s lies about massive fraud in the 2020 election. And he publicly endorsed President Joe Biden’s nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson to serve on the Supreme Court.

Barbara Jones, DOJ nominee​

Barbara Jones, another retired federal judge and a Clinton appointee, is a former federal prosecutor and a retired judge from the Southern District of New York from 1995 to 2012. She brings a lot of special master experience to the table, having recently served in that position for three high-profile criminal investigations with political implications.

She was tapped to serve as a special master to examine materials seized during an FBI raid of Rudy Giuliani’s home and office in April 2021. She was also a special master in the Michael Cohen case, to make sure investigators didn’t sweep up any documents that were attorney-client privileged. Both Giuliani and Cohen were Trump’s lawyers while they were investigated by the Justice Department.

More recently, Jones was the special master who examined materials that the FBI seized from Project Veritas, a right-wing group that often targets Democrats and media organizations with undercover stings. Jones was brought in to review materials for First Amendment and attorney-client considerations.

Paul Huck Jr., Trump nominee​

Huck, who has his own law firm, had been a partner at the Jones Day law firm, which represented the Trump campaign in 2016, and a contributor to the conservative legal organization the Federalist Society.

Huck also previously served as the deputy attorney general for Florida and as general counsel to former Florida Gov. Charlie Crist – who was a Republican at the time but served as a Democratic member of the US House and is the Democratic nominee for governor in Florida. Chris Kise, Trump’s current lawyer, also worked for Crist and overlapped with Huck. They worked together at the Florida attorney general’s office.

Huck’s wife, Barbara Lagoa, was on Trump’s short list as a Supreme Court nominee after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died.

Raymond Dearie, Trump nominee​

Dearie, a Reagan nominee, has served as a federal judge in New York since 1986. He retired in 2011 and is now a senior judge on the circuit.

Dearie also served a seven-year term on the US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, or FISA court. He was one of the judges who approved an FBI and DOJ request to surveil Carter Page, a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, as part of the federal inquiry into whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election.

The process that federal investigators used to secure the FISA warrants was riddled with errors and overall sloppiness, according to a DOJ inspector general report. Two of the four surveillance warrants granted by the secretive FISA court regarding Page have since been declared invalid – including one approved by Dearie in June 2017 – because of omissions and mistakes in the FBI’s submissions to the court.
 

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Thomas Griffith, DOJ nominee​

Thomas Griffith, a retired federal judge and George W. Bush appointee, served on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals from 2005 to 2020. In one of his final major rulings before retiring, he wrote the majority opinion rejecting House Democrats’ attempt to subpoena Trump’s former White House Counsel Don McGahn. (The decision was later overturned.)

In the years since his retirement, Griffith co-authored a report alongside other prominent conservative lawyers and officials debunking Trump’s lies about massive fraud in the 2020 election. And he publicly endorsed President Joe Biden’s nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson to serve on the Supreme Court.

Barbara Jones, DOJ nominee​

Barbara Jones, another retired federal judge and a Clinton appointee, is a former federal prosecutor and a retired judge from the Southern District of New York from 1995 to 2012. She brings a lot of special master experience to the table, having recently served in that position for three high-profile criminal investigations with political implications.

She was tapped to serve as a special master to examine materials seized during an FBI raid of Rudy Giuliani’s home and office in April 2021. She was also a special master in the Michael Cohen case, to make sure investigators didn’t sweep up any documents that were attorney-client privileged. Both Giuliani and Cohen were Trump’s lawyers while they were investigated by the Justice Department.

More recently, Jones was the special master who examined materials that the FBI seized from Project Veritas, a right-wing group that often targets Democrats and media organizations with undercover stings. Jones was brought in to review materials for First Amendment and attorney-client considerations.

Paul Huck Jr., Trump nominee​

Huck, who has his own law firm, had been a partner at the Jones Day law firm, which represented the Trump campaign in 2016, and a contributor to the conservative legal organization the Federalist Society.

Huck also previously served as the deputy attorney general for Florida and as general counsel to former Florida Gov. Charlie Crist – who was a Republican at the time but served as a Democratic member of the US House and is the Democratic nominee for governor in Florida. Chris Kise, Trump’s current lawyer, also worked for Crist and overlapped with Huck. They worked together at the Florida attorney general’s office.

Huck’s wife, Barbara Lagoa, was on Trump’s short list as a Supreme Court nominee after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died.

Raymond Dearie, Trump nominee​

Dearie, a Reagan nominee, has served as a federal judge in New York since 1986. He retired in 2011 and is now a senior judge on the circuit.

Dearie also served a seven-year term on the US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, or FISA court. He was one of the judges who approved an FBI and DOJ request to surveil Carter Page, a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, as part of the federal inquiry into whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election.

The process that federal investigators used to secure the FISA warrants was riddled with errors and overall sloppiness, according to a DOJ inspector general report. Two of the four surveillance warrants granted by the secretive FISA court regarding Page have since been declared invalid – including one approved by Dearie in June 2017 – because of omissions and mistakes in the FBI’s submissions to the court.
If I was picking off this, it would be a hard pick between the DOJ nominees, though I would go with Barbara.

She's done this a lot and managed to not fuck it up.

Neither of Drumpf's nominees are qualified. You have the owner of the law firm that proceeded presided over massive amounts of campaign fraud, whose job was to keep that under the radar; and someone who fucked it up many times in the past.

Neither Drumpf pick is qualified.

Barbara is qualified.
 
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Elixir

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Think some people could get use out of this
View attachment 40198
No, I prefer to at least TRY to be honest.
And I most certainly do NOT wish the suckers any luck whatsoever in their battle against reality. Au contraire, I hope it is a short and bloody battle that they lose spectacularly.
 

Elixir

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"DOJ and Trump each propose 2 special masters for Mar-a-Lago probe"​

Someone please 'splain this to me. Why does the perp get any say over this or anything else regarding his crimes?
He was caught red handed fer crissakes. He should be in jail on several hundred million dollars bond, before being given any chance at all to pipe up about it.
"Not above the law" my rosy red ass.
 

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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I get the suspect stain on PillowFucker's pillow, but what's with the Kool-aid man?

Or is that supposed to be Trumpty Dumpty themselves?
I think it represents the collective that have "drunk the Kool-Aid."

It's also orange like Twitler. Maybe it's the beginning of an expression, as in "It looks like someone drank the orange Kool-Aid."
 

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"DOJ and Trump each propose 2 special masters for Mar-a-Lago probe"​

Someone please 'splain this to me. Why does the perp get any say over this or anything else regarding his crimes?
He was caught red handed fer crissakes. He should be in jail on several hundred million dollars bond, before being given any chance at all to pipe up about it.
"Not above the law" my rosy red ass.
Money.

If you had, you'd get to handpick your judges, too.
 

Ruth Harris

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Maybe not so much money as power. He holds numerous VIP's in his thrall. I suspect there might be blackmail material involved in some cases.

Ruth
 

Loren Pechtel

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Let's see which nations have nuclear bombs.
There are 9 nations that are known or suspected to have nuclear bombs: the US (5,428), Russia (5,977), the UK (225), France (290), China (350), India (160), Pakistan (165), North Korea (20?), Israel (90?)

Leaving out of the US makes 8. Of these, the UK and France are friendly nations with uncontroversial nuclear arsenals, and the US is not much involved with India vs. Pakistan. That leaves Russia, China, NK, and Israel. I find it hard to go much further than that, however.

I think what would be of more interest is the nations trying to develop nukes.

The only country on that list that I think would be all that interested in what we know is North Korea.
All of those countries would be very interested in what the US knows, because knowing what you know is a very good starting point for finding out how you came to know it, that is, for identifying US spies in their institutions.

Even closely allied nations, like the UK, are very keen to identify and eliminate leaks in their security. And if you think the US doesn't spy on the UK, and vice-versa, you are very naïve. That NOFORN classification isn't targeted at obvious enemies; It's a warning about not sharing information with allies, too.

In some ways, inappropriate or unauthorised sharing with allies is a bigger issue, because people are in the habit of sharing other classified materials with allies as part of routine operations, so it's a real risk that NOFORN material could be included in error.

I don't think knowing what we know about them will be all that useful in figuring out penetration. Knowing what someone knows is quite useful when it's highly compartmented and not particularly of general interest, but the sort of information that would be in a report he would see would be more general.
 

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Illegal possession of secret document or merely "document storage dispute."
article said:
Lawyers for former president Donald Trump filed court papers Monday arguing against any pause in a judge’s order for a special master to review documents seized at Mar-a-Lago last month, suggesting that some of the documents in question may not be classified and that Trump may have the right to keep them in his possession.

“In what at its core is a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control, the Government wrongfully seeks to criminalize the possession by the 45th President of his own Presidential and personal records,” the Trump lawyers wrote, arguing that prosecutors are trying to limit any outside review of “what it deems are ‘classified records’.”
The interesting part of this is the implication that documents stop being classified after Trump is President. That US's secrets stop being secret after this one guy is no longer President.

Luckily it appears that the Judge is walking back her ruling, because otherwise, I can't wait for SCOTUS to unravel our Democracy to bare threads and say the ex-President maintains executive authority... in a one time only ruling of course... and that holding onto documents is protected speech.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Trump lawyers don't approve of the two options proposed by the Justice Department to be the Special Master, including a guy that has already been a special master. The reasons? Well, they don't want to get into that. No, seriously.

Trump lawyers said:
Plaintiff believes there are specific reasons why those nominees are not preferred for service as Special Master in this case.
...but...
Trump lawyers said:
Therefore, Plaintiff asks this Court for permission to specifically express our objections to the Government’s nominees only at such time that the Court specifies a desire to obtain and consider that information.
We'd love to explain why we feel this way, but the Judge didn't say "Simon Says".
 

Jimmy Higgins

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That happened nearly a month ago, so this is old and highly suspect to the point of being clearly disreputable.
 

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That happened nearly a month ago, so this is old and highly suspect to the point of being clearly disreputable.
Thankfully.

If they had it, it's unclear whether they would be allowed to show it, mostly on account of the fact it would reduce damages to the United States, by making clear that Trump have managed to leak a document all the way to Russia.

Still, you are right and we can be fairly sure it's fake.
 

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A less redacted version of the affidavit, was release today. Apparently there were classified files containing HCS, SI, and FISA.

HCS - human sources - spies and such
SI - signal intercepts
FISA - domestic surveillance and wiretaps related to counterintelligence

horrifying.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I get the whole wanting to take a cover letter/folder thing with the classification markings. But Human intel? That'd be illegal for Trump to hold onto in a secure safe inside an even more secure safe. And he had it in his hotel/golf course.
 

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That'd be illegal for Trump to hold onto in a secure safe inside an even more secure safe.

"But when the President does it, that means it's not illegal."

(Richard M. Nixon)


It is truly mind-blowing. Nixon was undone in part because he didn't seem until it was too late that having his conversations recorded on tape might be a bad thing.

The law was changed to make sure that shit never happened again, but Trump didn't seem to grasp the whole "Presidential Records Act" thing.

That's a bit like someone watching Bud Fox get busted for insider trading in Oliver Stone's movie "Wall Street" and thinking "so...Charlie Sheen's character was the villain? I don't get it."
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I believe the PRA thing is more a formality and I don't believe is remotely being used to justify criminal charges. Trump was in possession of what appears to range from 'kind of secret' to 'pretty fucking secret'.

There was so much BS'ing about the email server and it not being secure from the GOP. Yet, Trump had hard copies of this stuff lying about "hidden" (not locked away) in his golf resort. And if the US Government was looking for it, other foreign Intel Agencies were looking for it, where plopping in an agent to be a custodian would provide access to these 'hidden' areas. At best, it was incompetent pride.
 

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Jimmy Higgins

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A less redacted version of the affidavit, was release today. Apparently there were classified files containing HCS, SI, and FISA.

HCS - human sources - spies and such
SI - signal intercepts
FISA - domestic surveillance and wiretaps related to counterintelligence

horrifying.
Moscow Already 'Studying' Top-Secret Records From Trump Raid: Russian Media

Possibly (likely?) not true, but I do wonder about the purpose of saying so.
They are trolling. If it were true, I'd presume they'd likely never say it because they wouldn't want the CIA pouring through Trump's past to find the tentacles that led up to this. If they wanted to demonstrate they actually were in possession, they could rifle off a couple headers from the intel. That would cause a ripple of fear to tear through the US's intelligence organizations.

So just blurting some nonsense on the TV is silly and trolling. Barely more influential than barbos boasting a post claiming the Russians already had the docs.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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They are trolling.
That’s what they WANT you to think.
How better to preserve their mole, while assuring the CIA they haven’t gotten copies of all the stuff Trump stole?

Honestly, I would assign equal probability to both possibilities.
That is what you want us to think because you are a quintuple spy for Russia.... or maybe its the US? It simply got too convoluted and you can't remember anymore.
 

Elixir

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They are trolling.
That’s what they WANT you to think.
How better to preserve their mole, while assuring the CIA they haven’t gotten copies of all the stuff Trump stole?

Honestly, I would assign equal probability to both possibilities.
That is what you want us to think because you are a quintuple spy for Russia.... or maybe its the US? It simply got too convoluted and you can't remember anymore.
Ok, I admit it. That is in fact what I wanted you to think that I thought I wanted you to think. And it might be so. Nobody really knows, least of all me.
 
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