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Mass shooting in Norway: Muslim shoots up a gay bar ahead of pride parade

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Even in a secular, socialist country like Norway, there can be occasional problems. This is why the fight against toxic masculinity, conservative ideology, and other forms of hate needs to be an on-going struggle. Trying to reduce the overall number of automatic weapons on the streets is only a small part of the fight. A determined person can occasionally get automatic weapons into their hands, even if the probability is less and so other factors such as attitudes of hatred also have to be part of the fight. Likewise immigration controls somewhat misses the mark, if you consider that there is also hate against immigrants and others who can be different for whatever reason at all--gay, not the right religion whatever the religion is, female, trans, not the right ethnicity or race. Racists against immigration have been screaming about Western values, but that also isn't really true--look at Islamo-Judeo-Christian values, for example and Clarence Thomas's recent revealing of the ultimate direction of that part of Western culture. It isn't Western values wholesale that need support but instead values that can be present in any society, such as acceptance of differences, rejection of hierarchies placed on groups of people, advancing freedom and opportunity to find happiness, and stopping the marketing of violence for profit and power.
 

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
 

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Maybe legalise drunk driving because a ban of it fails to prevent drunk drivers from killing other road users.
Your response might make sense if Derec had suggested getting rid of gun control, but he didn't.
 

Metaphor

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?
 

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Maybe legalise drunk driving because a ban of it fails to prevent drunk drivers from killing other road users.
Your response might make sense if Derec had suggested getting rid of gun control, but he didn't.
With which part of "The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself" do you have a comprehension problem?
 

Elixir

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?

Remedial English, much?
Derec is, as usual complaining about “The Others”. I’m offering helpful tips on how to protect himself. RW snowflakes need all the protection they can get, from The Others.
Get someone to read it to you.
 

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Maybe legalise drunk driving because a ban of it fails to prevent drunk drivers from killing other road users.
Your response might make sense if Derec had suggested getting rid of gun control, but he didn't.
With which part of "The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself" do you have a comprehension problem?
I can't read the article as it's behind a paywall, but even if it were not, did the article suggest that semi-automatic weapons should be unbanned?
 

Metaphor

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?

Remedial English, much?
Derec is, as usual complaining about “The Others”. I’m offering helpful tips on how to protect himself. RW snowflakes need all the protection they can get, from The Others.
Get someone to read it to you.
I can read, Elixir, and I can reason. Nothing you wrote follows from Derec's comment. It's a blatant smear tactic.
 

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?

Remedial English, much?
Derec is, as usual complaining about “The Others”. I’m offering helpful tips on how to protect himself. RW snowflakes need all the protection they can get, from The Others.
Get someone to read it to you.
I can read, Elixir, and I can reason. Nothing you wrote follows from Derec's comment. It's a blatant smear tactic.
And?
 

laughing dog

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The OP is just another example of poor reasoning: someone of demographic _____ commits some horrific crime, so we should ban people of the same demographic ______. Interestingly, I can not recall any such OP from Derec when the perpetrator of some horrific crime is a white male.
 

Metaphor

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The OP is just another example of poor reasoning: someone of demographic _____ commits some horrific crime, so we should ban people of the same demographic ______.
In what universe did Derec ask to 'ban' 'demographic ___'?

 

Metaphor

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Norway Mass Shooting Is Being Investigated as Terrorism, Police Say

The article mentions a ban on "semi-automatic weapons" which nevertheless failed to prevent the Muslim terrorist from arming himself.
Maybe Norway (and rest of Europe) should consider immigration controls in addition to gun control.
Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around? We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?

Remedial English, much?
Derec is, as usual complaining about “The Others”. I’m offering helpful tips on how to protect himself. RW snowflakes need all the protection they can get, from The Others.
Get someone to read it to you.
I can read, Elixir, and I can reason. Nothing you wrote follows from Derec's comment. It's a blatant smear tactic.
And?
So, on this board, it's okay to falsely imply somebody's position on immigration is on the path to genocide?

Maybe Elixir wasn't just making false implications for dramatic effect. Maybe his reasoning really is that poor. Maybe he thinks that my stance - "I don't like tomatoes so I'm not going to buy them and put them in my fridge" leads to "execute all tomatoes".
 

laughing dog

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So, on this board, it's okay to falsely imply somebody's position on immigration is on the path to genocide?
I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group. Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide. Just to be clear - I am not endorsing any killing of anyone.

Elixir was obviously using a satiric response to make a point. Duh.
 

Metaphor

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So, on this board, it's okay to falsely imply somebody's position on immigration is on the path to genocide?
I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group.
I didn't.

Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide.
Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people — usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group — in whole or in part.



 

laughing dog

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So, on this board, it's okay to falsely imply somebody's position on immigration is on the path to genocide?
I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group.
I didn't.

Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide.
Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people — usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group — in whole or in part.



I learned something new. Thank you.
 

Patooka

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In what universe did Derec ask to 'ban' 'demographic ___'?
This one. Glad to be of help. You know, despite the rumours that you are alleged to be a lying piece of shit.

Allegedly of course. And clearly you are smart enough to realise that I didn't actually accuse you of anything. All I very merely did was imply that there are rumours that you are a lying piece of shit.

See how that works? Take all the time you need, mate.
 

Bomb#20

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Or maybe just execute all Muslims. ... We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary. That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
How does your suggestion follow from Derec's post?
I can help you out with that one...

political-spectrum-chart-nazi-nri-nazi-nazr-18848280.png
 

Bomb#20

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From your link:

"21 people lost their lives in terrorist attacks in the EU in 2020. Jihadist terrorists completed 10 attacks in Austria, France and Germany, killing 12 people. One right-wing terrorist attack in Germany killed nine people."​

Compare that with the 2020 stripe widths from your graphic. The most plausible way for your link's assertions to be reconciled is that Europol included property crimes in its statistic.
 

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What message are we to take away from this thread? Christianity is not the only religion with killers? Gun control doesn't work? (If someone dies in a crash despite an air-bag, should we all remove our air-bags? :confused: )

I'm sure the message is NOT that U.S.'s high murder rate is normal. According to  List of countries by intentional homicide rate the U.S.A. has the highest murder rate among prosperous democracies (though barely ahead of Ukraine in 2017). The U.S. has over 3 times the rate of Canada, 4 times the rate of Israel, 5 times the rate of France or the U.K., and 10 times the murder rate of Spain, Holland or ... Norway! Italy and Japan have lower rates still. (U.S. has 2½ times the murder rate of Thailand!)

Days with mass shootings are now so common in the United States that we now have special words for such days:
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow.
 

Derec

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Even in a secular, socialist country like Norway, there can be occasional problems.
They are not exactly socialist, although they have more government involvement than the US.
They are secular, at least for now. How long that will last with this influx of millions of high birthrate Muslim mass migrants is unclear though.

This is why the fight against toxic masculinity, conservative ideology, and other forms of hate needs to be an on-going struggle.
"Conservative ideology" is not a form of hate. And why is it that when a man does something bad it's "toxic masculinity" but we never hear about "toxic femininity" when a woman does something bad?
But the cause of this shooting was neither. Why don't you place the blame where it belongs - Islamism?

Trying to reduce the overall number of automatic weapons on the streets is only a small part of the fight.
Automatic weapons?

Likewise immigration controls somewhat misses the mark,
Nothing is perfect, but there should be some immigration controls. In recent years Europe has been letting in unrestricted number of Muslim mass migrants with little or no vetting for things like criminal record or Islamist views. And it is almost impossible to deport these mass migrants once they cross the border into EU, even if they commit crimes or engage in extremism. Those things need to change if Europe is to survive as a secular and liberal (in the true sense of the word) continent and not degenerate into Eurabia.

Racists against immigration have been screaming about Western values, but that also isn't really true--look at Islamo-Judeo-Christian values, for example and Clarence Thomas's recent revealing of the ultimate direction of that part of Western culture.
What are you rambling about? This is not a thread about US Supreme Court justices but about yet another Islamist terrorist attack. Which is similar to the much more deadly Pulse nightclub attack. Note that the Islamist angle is often omitted by people like Biden in the name of political correctness and being woke.

It isn't Western values wholesale that need support but instead values that can be present in any society, such as acceptance of differences, rejection of hierarchies placed on groups of people, advancing freedom and opportunity to find happiness, and stopping the marketing of violence for profit and power.
Hierarchies are not necessarily bad, and in fact are necessary for any .
Acceptance of differences should not be misinterpreted as an invitation to invite in those who wish to destroy you and your way of life.
Freedom has a long tradition in the West, but not in the Islamic world. In fact, Islamists are overtly opposed to it.

islam.png
Freedom-of-Expression-Go-to-Hell.jpg
 

Derec

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Or maybe just execute all Muslims. If you’re going xenophobe, why fuck around?
Because I am not "going xenophobe".
Advocating for sane immigration policies is not "xenophobia".

We all know that Xtian mass murderers are SO much less scary.
How many recent mass murders had a Christian motivation?
Compare that to Islamist terrorist attacks like this shooting or the similar Pulse nightclub shooting perpetrated by Afghan Islamist Omar Mateen.

Note also the difference in how many Christians vs. how many Muslims there are in US and Europe, and how overrepresented Muslims are in these types of crimes. When was the last time a Christian massacred over a 100 people in a concert hall in Paris? Or massacred the staff of a satirical magazine because they published drawings of Jesus?

That’s why we cultivate them en masse here in the land of the assault rifle.
Technically, Germany is the land of the assault rifle, with Sturmgewehr 44 being the first successful assault rifle.
il_fullxfull.1508241952_7la8.jpg

Contrary to popular misconception, civilian semiauto AR15s and similar rifles are not assault rifles. You also do not need rifles for mass casualty shootings. I do not know which weapons this terrorist used though, but handguns are quite deadly too.
 

Derec

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Maybe legalise drunk driving because a ban of it fails to prevent drunk drivers from killing other road users.
I am not saying we should not have gun control, although I am against blanket bans on firearms, including so-called "assault weapons".
What I am saying is that Europe has been very lax in controlling who gets to immigrate there. In recent years they have let in millions of mostly Muslim mass migrants just because they crossed the border in EU or even just made it 12 miles off Libya in a dingy.
No restrictions, no real vetting. And little chance of deportation even after committing serious crimes.
 

Derec

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Derec is, as usual complaining about “The Others”.
I didn't say anything about them!
others.png
Stop making shit up!

I was talking about Islamists specifically.

RW snowflakes
Everybody who disagrees with you is a "RW" and a "snowflake". It is you who has a problem with "others".
 

Derec

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[Sankey diagram]
This diagram is useless without normalizing it for share of population. Even though it is rapidly increasing (due both to suicidal immigration policies and high birth rate among Muslims), Muslims are currently ~2% of the EU population. So even though it may look small on the Sankey, Muslims are far overrepresented among perpetrators. I also wonder how many of the "non-specified" turn out to be Muslim.
 

Derec

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The OP is just another example of poor reasoning: someone of demographic _____ commits some horrific crime, so we should ban people of the same demographic ______.
No, your post is a classic example of poor reasoning following even poorer reading comprehension. In other words, a classic laughing dog.

Where did I say anything about "ban people on the same demographic"? I did not. I merely think immigrants should be vetted, esp. those coming from countries and cultures where large majorities have views incompatible with Western societies. That is not the same as a blanket ban on a demographic.

Interestingly, I can not recall any such OP from Derec when the perpetrator of some horrific crime is a white male.
Iranians are white.
And Muslim is not a race, contrary to the common misconception among the woke.
 

Derec

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I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group. Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide. Just to be clear - I am not endorsing any killing of anyone.
Pointing out that Islam is not a race is not pedantry when so many people (such as yourself) think that for example, being Muslim and being a "white male" are mutually exclusive categories.
I also do not think that pointing out that religion is included in the definition of  genocide is particularly pedantic either.

Elixir was obviously using a satiric response to make a point. Duh.
Let Elixir speak for himself. If he was attempting satire, it was in extremely poor taste. If he was being serious, he missed my point by a megaparsec. Either way, it was a weak response to what I wrote.

You know what is not satirical? Islamists wanting to genocide us the kafir.
060206_wp_london_protest_hmed9p.jpg

6a010535ce1cf6970c012875616848970c-pi

That includes you and other  fellow travelers (deleted)
 
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Derec

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What message are we to take away from this thread? Christianity is not the only religion with killers?
Islam is overrepresented with regard to religiously motivated killing and terrorism. At least in recent centuries (in before you bring up the Middle Ages).
Gun control doesn't work? (If someone dies in a crash despite an air-bag, should we all remove our air-bags? :confused: )
Gun control does work. Norway has a lower overall rate of gun crime than US.
But there should also be immigration controls, which is where Europe is failing miserably.

I'm sure the message is NOT that U.S.'s high murder rate is normal. According to  List of countries by intentional homicide rate the U.S.A. has the highest murder rate among prosperous democracies (though barely ahead of Ukraine in 2017).
That is only partly due to our gun laws though. Murders are not uniformly distributed among the US population.

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow.
 

Derec

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Compare that with the 2020 stripe widths from your graphic. The most plausible way for your link's assertions to be reconciled is that Europol included property crimes in its statistic.
Great point. Lies, damned lies, and misleading Sankey diagrams.
 

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I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group. Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide. Just to be clear - I am not endorsing any killing of anyone.
Pointing out that Islam is not a race is not pedantry when so many people (such as yourself) think that for example, being Muslim and being a "white male" are mutually exclusive categories.
I also do not think that pointing out that religion is included in the definition of  genocide is particularly pedantic either.

Elixir was obviously using a satiric response to make a point. Duh.
Let Elixir speak for himself. If he was attempting satire, it was in extremely poor taste. If he was being serious, he missed my point by a megaparsec. Either way, it was a weak response to what I wrote.

You know what is not satirical? Islamists wanting to genocide us the kafir.
060206_wp_london_protest_hmed9p.jpg

6a010535ce1cf6970c012875616848970c-pi

That includes you and other  fellow travelers (deleted)
Just commenting on the pictures.

You can see those are clearly written by the same person, right? And that also matches one of the other images from your earlier posts. I've seen pictures of these "protests", and they're basically a dozen or so people, or less, who squeeze next to each other so that when their buddy takes a photo, it looks like a huge crowd. But to me it seems like it's just a very small group trying to make themselves look big.

Of course, it doesn't mean that these asshats are not a problem or that they're harmless. They do have a lot of followers. But the more effective solution is to go after the few instigators and break their networks, than a blanket ban on all immigration, that would neither A) stop the terrorists that are already in the country, or B) take effect in a time scale shorter than a generation.
 
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Of course, it doesn't mean that these asshats are not a problem or that they're harmless. They do have a lot of followers. But the more effective solution is to go after the few instigators and break their networks, than a blanket ban on all immigration, that would neither A) stop the terrorists that are already in the country, or B) take effect in a time scale shorter than a generation.
When did Derec call for a 'blanket ban' on all immigration?
 

Elixir

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Contrary to popular misconception, civilian semiauto AR15s and similar rifles are not assault rifles. You also do not need rifles for mass casualty shootings. I do not know which weapons this terrorist used though, but handguns are quite deadly too.

You never answered my question;
Have you ever shot an AR or an AK?

You seem to be ignorant of the actual, real life difference between those assault rifles and hunting rifles.
 

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The OP is just another example of poor reasoning: someone of demographic _____ commits some horrific crime, so we should ban people of the same demographic ______.
No, your post is a classic example of poor reasoning following even poorer reading comprehension. I
Projection is a form of narcissism not analysis.
Where did I say anything about "ban people on the same demographic"? I did not. I merely think immigrants should be vetted, esp. those coming from countries and cultures where large majorities have views incompatible with Western societies. That is not the same as a blanket ban on a demographic.
No one said it was. Just another example of poor reasoning.
Interestingly, I can not recall any such OP from Derec when the perpetrator of some horrific crime is a white male.
Iranians are white.
And Muslim is not a race, contrary to the common misconception among the woke.
Interestingly, you did not come with an example.
 

laughing dog

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The OP is just another example of poor reasoning: someone of demographic _____ commits some horrific crime, so we should ban people of the same demographic ______.
No, your post is a classic example of poor reasoning following even poorer reading comprehension.
Projection is a form of narcissism not analyis.
Where did I say anything about "ban people on the same demographic"? I did not. I merely think immigrants should be vetted, esp. those coming from countries and cultures where large majorities have views incompatible with Western societies. That is not the same as a blanket ban on a demographic.
No one said it was. Just another example of poor reading comprehension and poor reasoning.

At this point, there is no evidence that the shooter's nationality or religion (if he had one) played any part in his motivation. Yet you jump immediately to immigration vetting.
Iranians are white.
Yes, they classified as white but many bigots do not view them as such.
I am surprised such a pendant as yourself would mke the mistake that Muslim is a race, or ethnic group. Since they are not, killing all of them is not genocide. Just to be clear - I am not endorsing any killing of anyone.
Pointing out that Islam is not a race is not pedantry when so many people (such as yourself) think that for example, being Muslim and being a "white male" are mutually exclusive categories.
I did point out Muslim is not a race, so that is yet another example of your poor reading comprehension. As usual, you are wrong in believing that I think being Muslim and white male are mutually exclusive categories.
Elixir was obviously using a satiric response to make a point. Duh.
Let Elixir speak for himself. If he was attempting satire, it was in extremely poor taste. If he was being serious, he missed my point by a megaparsec. Either way, it was a weak response to what I wrote.
Its quality matched the quality of your post.
You know what is not satirical? Islamists wanting to genocide us the kafir.
060206_wp_london_protest_hmed9p.jpg

6a010535ce1cf6970c012875616848970c-pi

That includes you and other  fellow travelers/ (deleted)
Do you have an actual point or are you just ranting?

And Muslim is not a race, contrary to the common misconception among the woke and racists bigots.
Thank you for re-iterating my point that Muslim is not a race. I don't know what "the woke" know or don't know, and I suspect neither do you.
 
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